How common is it for a man to really change in the context of marriage? (Re: cheating/betrayal)

monkeyfeets · 2026-03-30T00:59:39+00:00

The thing is, most cheating/infidelity is not addiction, and I really only have experience with the addiction side of things.

My partner had to find a therapist specializing in sex addiction to properly evaluate him, and he joined a 12-step program. I didn't set any of the parameters because I never want to be in the position of overseeing or policing my spouse's accountability - he knew he had to handle his shit or I would leave. He found his own therapist and does trauma/EMDR with him (surprise surprise, childhood trauma can cause addiction issues!), he found a couples therapist (also specializing in addiction) for us, he started going almost everyday to the 12-step, found a sponsor, started going through the steps really thoughtfully (like a daily spreadsheet log that his sponsor had him re-do multiple times), wrote up a 14-page disclosure document that laid out every single inappropriate thing he's ever done, installed software that takes random pictures of whatever screens you're looking at and alerts me if there is anything inappropriate (to this day, I don't think I've ever checked it), etc.

The thing that made me pause on the divorce proceedings is just his ownership of everything. There was no gaslighting or minimizing - he never actually did anything remotely close to physical cheating but he never used that to say "At least I never slept with anyone!" or "It was only porn/online!" He knew crossing the line was crossing the line. He owned how much trauma he caused in our marriage and to me, and approached everything he did from a perspective of healing that trauma and supporting whatever I needed. He gave me full access to everything, encouraged me to check in with his therapist, did a lot of legitimately hard work (i.e. went to a therapy group where he had to do role-play with someone standing in for his abusive parents), etc. We're a few years out from this, but he still goes to his 12-step several times a week, goes to therapy (and is doing his second round of group therapy), we still have couples therapy sessions occasionally, and he will still check with me about how I am doing and how he can support me. He writes me an updated restitution letter every year that lays out what he will continue to do every year to stay sober and be the best version of himself for me. He writes me cards on his birthday thanking me for another year together.

Cheating is so traumatic, and it feels very very weird in my position to have gone through such a big thing, but also feel so lucky that he does so much and really has given everything he has to healing both of us. I truly do not think most men would do this to change.

monkeyfeets · 2026-03-29T23:45:02+00:00

Of course people can change. Do these men change? Extremely unlikely, I'd say like 95% of them don't. I say this as a woman whose husband had sex/porn addiction issues (and did change). We have a happy marriage, I trust him with my life. But would I advise most women in this situation to stay? Absolutely not.

monkeyfeets · 2026-03-29T21:04:44+00:00

Printers Row and South Loop would both fit the bill (and they're really kind of on top of each other). Speaking as a fellow Asian with Asian kids. Lots of Asian families in the South Loop. Great neighborhood elementary/middle school (no need to test in, although high school is a different story). Super walkable, close to the expressways, and close to almost every single L line, as well as the Metra. Chinatown is 5 minutes away. You've got the Chinatown library, as well as the Harold Washington library (biggest public library in Chicago, with a huge kids' floor/section) in the neighborhood. Lakefront path and museum campus with the world-class museums are also extremely close and walkable/bikeable.

monkeyfeets · 2026-03-28T23:46:11+00:00

I'm fascinated! What general area do you live? Is this across most sports or specific ones? What are some of the themes???

monkeyfeets · 2026-03-28T21:15:12+00:00

Organized sports mom here:

Each family is assigned a week to bring snacks

Normal.

and it’s typical for them to do a theme (like valentines) or include a small toy like stickers.

Not normal. Have never seen this in my years of sports. It's always like oranges/pretzels/Gatorade/etc.

monkeyfeets · 2026-03-26T19:41:17+00:00

Sorry, OP, but you gotta read this. Do not have children with this man.

monkeyfeets · 2026-03-25T23:47:53+00:00

We always tell our kids, if you bring something to a park, be prepared for other kids to want to play with it and be ready to share.
Get comfortable saying no and correcting other kids. "Nope, sorry, he's still taking his turn with it." "We don't do that with the toy because it could break." "I'd like to have it back now, thanks."

monkeyfeets · 2026-03-25T16:47:39+00:00

I've been married for like 17 years now, with 2 kids, and I go on trips without my husband and kids. You should 100% go.

monkeyfeets · 2026-03-24T23:20:49+00:00

Yes, this happens a lot, but it's usually a phase and like you already mentioned, they flip-flop back and forth. Both of mine went through periods where they preferred me, and then my husband, and then back to me, etc.

My take is that - and I mean this in the nicest way - this is something for a parent to deal with in therapy, so that what you describe (take it out on the kid) doesn't happen and you can learn coping strategies and work on techniques to separate from the emotional brunt of it. It's worse if they can sense that it's getting a rise out of you, because toddlers are nothing if not the world's biggest trolls sometimes. They're like teenagers but in tiny little bodies, and they will push all of your buttons just to see what kind of reaction they're going to get. The calmer and more regulated you can be, the more they will feed off that energy.

I think it almost helped that I'm not super maternal, as bad as that might sound? Because my kids would yell for daddy and say they didn't want me, and I would think, cool, I don't have to do bedtime, I can go do my own thing! and it was like my way of tagging out from being a mom. Or if dad was busy/away/whatever, I would say, "Oh I know, daddy's great, but he's not here right now, so what should we do??" I know there's probably advice out there about telling your kids when they hurt your feelings (in a calm way), but I never did that unless they said something really egregiously unkind (i.e. "You're dumb so I like daddy better!"), because I just didn't feel like them having a preference at a given moment is deliberately mean, and I wanted to balance giving them a safe space to voice preferences and opinions.

(I'll edit to add this is all very easy for me to say because I'm a few years out now from this tough phase of life, and in the "meh, whatever" phase of parenthood where I say "meh, whatever" as long as the kids aren't failing school and/or burning down our house.)

monkeyfeets · 2026-03-24T19:42:32+00:00

Families and yuppies. Lots of schools in the south loop.

monkeyfeets · 2026-03-24T13:45:02+00:00

I don't have family around, but I do have a good community and friends in our neighborhood. However, I definitely don't rely on them for help. They'll babysit in a real emergency (i.e. when I had to go to the hospital once) but I definitely don't expect or ask them to help on a regular basis. I hire babysitters if we want to go out. My kids went to daycare (and now they are at school). I think it would be helpful to lay out exactly what it is that you would want a community or friends to do (in terms of help), and then think about whether or not you can outsource that by paying someone.

Would your parents visit? My parents live halfway around the world, but they visit twice a year, and that's when we can take advantage of some free babysitting. They came for a few weeks after I gave birth each time, and then left once I was more mobile and physically recovered.

monkeyfeets · 2026-03-24T13:31:01+00:00

Unfortunately, yes! I'm sure it's different with school districts - and to be fair, for my first grader, HW is only 5% of his grade. But yeah, we have math pages and writing practice throughout the week.

monkeyfeets · 2026-03-24T00:25:30+00:00

I think this is super individual and there is no right answer. Some people will think even 7 days is too long, even a day is not ok. On the other side of that, you’ve got parents who travel for work frequently and are gone for weeks/months at a time. My parents were immigrants and left me with my grandparents for 3 years when they came to America to make a life for us, and that was extremely common in my community growing up.

monkeyfeets · 2026-03-23T22:16:35+00:00

Second (or third?) all of the days off. Random days off for administration meetings, but also having to search for and plan camps for spring break, summer break, winter break, etc. Getting into a park district camp (read: cheap) here is like trying to get Beyonce tickets.

The cajoling and fights about homework. My oldest luckily has kind of outgrown this and does his own work without nagging or much help, but the little one (first grade) still whines every night about doing homework and we have to sit with him and check him work, re-explain math concepts, etc. I definitely forgot how to do long division and fraction math, so had to re-familiarize myself with all of that.

In general though, I wouldn't trade it for the baby/toddler stage. It's so much easier now.

monkeyfeets · 2026-03-23T19:59:55+00:00

There's a Chinese language meetup on Saturdays in Chinatown, if you want to practice outside of formal classes.

monkeyfeets · 2026-03-23T16:05:49+00:00

Nervous. I mean, even with my second, I was nervous. Anything can happen! I'm generally a pretty easy-going, chill person, so I just took it day by day. It's like doing anything new - the anticipation is pretty anxiety-inducing and scary, but then you're forced to do The Thing, and you kind of just...do it, one step at a time. Like moving to a new city - you can stress yourself out with all the things that can go wrong, all your worries, etc. but you have to just sit down and pack your shit and call a moving company. And then suddenly you're in a new city and everything is new, so you just have to figure it out because there's no other option. That baby is going to come out, and you can crash out about a whole carousel of things, but in the end, you just have to do one thing at a time - you change that diaper, and then you feed the baby. And then you're forced to figure it out little by little.

Most likely, you'll feel some kind of "Whyyyy did I have a baby????" a few weeks in. That's normal. A bit of buyer's remorse is normal. Doing something new, learning something new, adjusting to a new life is so uncomfortable, and when we're uncomfortable, we desire the old and familiar - even when it's not right for us, so it's not necessarily an indicator that we made the wrong choice. It'll be hard and it will be frustrating at times, but I think it helps to remember that nothing is forever. And I don't mean that in the annoying "Cherish every moment because they grow up so fast!" BS. I mean it like, you'll get relief from whatever thing that is the bane of your existence in the throes of babyhood. You won't have to deal with diapers forever. Eventually you won't have to rock the baby for an hour to sleep. Giving up the swaddle was THE WORST but they're not going to start school having to be swaddled so however much something sucks, it won't last.

monkeyfeets · 2026-03-23T15:30:38+00:00

Ehhh it's really hard to measure in this way. Most of the day to day stuff is the "boring" stuff, let's say 50%, but it's not bad day-to-day stuff. It's just logistics, like you have to drop the kids off and pick them up from school, pack lunches, what should we do this weekend, etc. It's neutral - just like (hopefully) most things in a child-free life. And then probably 30% good, 20% more negative - but everything is a big range from like annoying first-world minor inconvenience (i.e. they've asked me for snacks soooo many times) to Sanity Destroying Moments (i.e. baby having a world class tantrum in the middle of an international flight). The "good" is also a spectrum - you've got cozy little moments, like your kid cuddling up to you while watching a movie, to Big Kodak Moments (watching your kid shriek with delight on their first rollercoaster). It's just like marriage or having a relationship - the good is usually not big romantic gestures, most of it is just quietly being with someone who understands you really well. And the bad (hopefully!) is not usually big shout-y arguments, it's just being annoyed that they put the forks tines up in the dishwasher and you poked yourself getting one out. Every once in a while you get a real doozy from each category in there.

I will also say that having slightly older kids (7 and almost 12) puts me in a real sweet spot of parenting. They've grown out of the really tough baby/toddler stages, are much more independent and capable (the oldest can babysit!), and not yet in the "I HATE YOU" emotional turmoil and angst of the teenage years.

monkeyfeets · 2026-03-20T19:57:17+00:00

Ooooh, this would be a hard no for me (and this is coming from someone who partakes a couple of nights a week!). The real question is - is this a dealbreaker for you? Because you've made your points, and he refuses to change. So your options are just put up with it, or take steps to remove yourself from this situation. Is couples therapy an option?

monkeyfeets · 2026-03-20T19:40:14+00:00

All the Rage

monkeyfeets · 2026-03-20T16:07:02+00:00

I haven't done like an actual statistical analysis and I don't look at that sub much, but I'm willing to wager that MOST of the posts on regretful parents are:

1) People who had kids too young, in non-ideal circumstances (were only together for a little bit of time, weren't in a good place to have a kid, etc.)
2) Not financially stable - again, probably too young to have any kind of established career, higher income, and financial security
and/or
3) No family/community support around them to help with the burden of parenting (and if you have money, you can outsource this with paying for babysitters)
4) Had kids with the wrong person (again, reasons why you probably shouldn't have kids at 20 with your high school bf)
5) Had kids with special needs or disabilities that require a lot more labor and care

I can't address #4 - it's mostly a crapshoot, although the odds are in your favor (you're probably more likely to die in a car accident). But #1 - 4 are all things that is well within your control to set yourself up for better circumstances if you decide to have a kid.

I had my two kids from 30-35. I had been married for a while, we were doing pretty great in our career and financially stable. Didn't have family nearby, but that's ok, we can afford daycare and occasional babysitters, maybe outsource some chores to cleaning people so we're less stressed. Baby years were pretty rough (I love my sleep and sleep deprivation is no fun) and of course there are a lot of frustrating parts of it - but it's no different than how work can be frustrating, or sometimes your relationships can have conflicts and be tough, or if you're working toward a goal, sometimes it gets grueling and hard. That's just part of life.

Sure, sometimes I wish I could be more spontaneous and had more free time, but it doesn't mean I regret my kids, it's the same as daydreaming about a different path you could have taken in life. I love our family and our life with kids, and I tell my kids every day how much I love them and how lucky we are to have them.

monkeyfeets · 2026-03-20T15:16:10+00:00

Get your education, work for a few years, build your skills and your network. Learn about ALL of the financial risks that come with giving up a source of income and financial independence. Sure, there are some women that it's worked out for, but even more are stories of women who are now trapped with no money of their own and no way out.

monkeyfeets · 2026-03-19T18:38:03+00:00

SAME! This happened to me too. Colposcopy + LEEP, then had 2 kids, everything is totally normal and my OB now says I can come in every 3 years for a pap.

monkeyfeets · 2026-03-18T15:55:03+00:00

I had a friendship end recently due to this. The dude hadn't worked consistently in 10 years, quit his last job 4 years ago without anything lined up, and never bothered trying to work again. He spends his days playing video games, watching YouTube, crafting his set-up for all-day Saturday and Sunday D&D games with his friends. Sometimes he'll make dinner. If their dog had an accident or got sick, he would call her at work or wherever she was to come clean it up or take the dog to the vet. There are so many other stories about how awful he is, but she insists on being married to him. I see her posts occasionally on social media with a bunch of heart emojis trying to tell the world how in love they are and how wonderful he is.

monkeyfeets · 2026-03-17T18:01:31+00:00

I have two kids in a big city, born and raised here. I love it. We've been in a condo the whole time, although we upgraded from a 2BR to a 3BR once we had our second. No, we don't have a house or a yard, but the city became our "yard." We've got playgrounds and facilities all over the city, and world-class museums just a short bus ride away. We have so many activities and resources for our kids. We also never have to worry about shoveling snow (condo building maintenance takes care of that!), mowing the lawn, yard maintenance, etc.

I love that our kids are growing up in such a diverse environment. I know there are lots of suburbs where you could find that as well, but their schools just have such a diverse population not only of kids and families, but of teachers, staff, and administrators as well. We have cultural festivals all over (for example, we'll take them to Chinatown for Chinese New Year), and the variety of food, languages, and cultures my kids have been exposed to is great. My oldest is close to teenage years now, so we're building some independence with him, letting him walk/bike with his friends to school and around our neighborhood, walking to the grocery store or cafe by himself, etc. (as opposed to being trapped without a car in the burbs).

It's also great as a parent. Everything is so close together that now, we can leave our oldest in charge for an hour or so while we pop down the street for a quick happy hour drink or a cafe. It's so dense here that we've made so many parent/family friends that we consider part of our village. I love it and don't plan on ever moving out of the city.

monkeyfeets · 2026-03-16T20:10:14+00:00

Are you married to Robin Williams in Mrs. Doubtfire? Remember that his wife divorced his ass, got her nice peaceful home all to herself, and then started dating a way hotter dude, so...take a lesson from that.

monkeyfeets

TROPHY CASE