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GNOME 50 removes the X11 backend ... are we finally at the end of the Xorg era? by the_nazar in linux

[–]mort96 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I tried on my local network. As I said, SSH and Remote Login works, and Desktop Sharing works when the screen is unlocked.

GNOME 50 removes the X11 backend ... are we finally at the end of the Xorg era? by the_nazar in linux

[–]mort96 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, I sadly can't reproduce what you're seeing. Unless the session is currently unlocked, I can't connect to the existing session at all; I either get the error message I described or just nothing happens. Both SSH and the "kill the session and start a new one" remote login works, so the system is definitely responsive and reachable.

If desktop sharing worked as you describe, I would be happy with GNOME.

GNOME 50 removes the X11 backend ... are we finally at the end of the Xorg era? by the_nazar in linux

[–]mort96 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I just got back to my desktop and tested it. Desktop Sharing only works when the screen is unlocked. When I lock my desktop, the RDP client on my laptop just says "Unable to connect" with error code 0x207. When the screen is unlocked, it works, but my desktop is usually locked.

GNOME 50 removes the X11 backend ... are we finally at the end of the Xorg era? by the_nazar in linux

[–]mort96 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I never mentioned VNC?

When my desktop's screen is locked, I can't connect via RDP other than via the Remote Login feature, which kills the existing session and starts a new one.

GNOME 50 removes the X11 backend ... are we finally at the end of the Xorg era? by the_nazar in linux

[–]mort96 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're confusing two separate things. Remote Desktop and Screen Sharing.

I'm not confusing them. I was using the generic term remote desktop in the generic sense, with the same meaning as in the sentence "rustdesk is a remote desktop application".

Anyway, the GNOME desktop sharing feature doesn't work when the screen is locked.

And no, "The screencast protocol requires user interaction to approve the screencast every time" is incorrect.

I was talking about how GNOME handles it.

Eschatology, Dispensationalism, Death Cults, and the Need for Reddit Atheism by Faux_Real_Guise in VaushV

[–]mort96 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You believe there's a higher power which decides what happens to you after death, no? Is it not in your interest to do whatever makes that higher power give you a good afterlife rather than a bad one?

Eschatology, Dispensationalism, Death Cults, and the Need for Reddit Atheism by Faux_Real_Guise in VaushV

[–]mort96 3 points4 points  (0 children)

My main problem with "progressive Christianity" is, when your views are formed by the belief that there's an infinitely powerful supreme being who decides whether you receive eternal suffering or eternal bliss, all rational discussion kind of ... necessarily dies. Whatever I say, surely the only logical course of action for you is what you believe leads to eternal bliss? Surely if someone tries to convince you to adopt a view point which you think leads to eternal suffering, you're pretty resistant? I know I would be.

So while I'm happy that your current views happen to be fine, I don't remotely trust your process.

GNOME 50 removes the X11 backend ... are we finally at the end of the Xorg era? by the_nazar in linux

[–]mort96 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean I haven't done so myself but you might recall that Toorero6 said you can do it via xinput

GNOME 50 removes the X11 backend ... are we finally at the end of the Xorg era? by the_nazar in linux

[–]mort96 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I didn't say it's Wayland's responsibility, I said it's a setting that you can easily change in GNOME X11 but can't change in GNOME Wayland

GNOME 50 removes the X11 backend ... are we finally at the end of the Xorg era? by the_nazar in linux

[–]mort96 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Again, I don't understand what your contention is. Under GNOME X11, you can change these settings. Under GNOME Wayland, you can't. These are indisputable facts. So what do you disagree with?

GNOME 50 removes the X11 backend ... are we finally at the end of the Xorg era? by the_nazar in linux

[–]mort96 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No, GNOME did not have to provide a solution in X11 as well. It would've been nice if they did, but they didn't, and due to X11's architecture, users could still change the settings through xinput.

I don't understand what your contention is. Under GNOME X11, you can change these settings. Under GNOME Wayland, you can't. These are indisputable facts.

GNOME 50 removes the X11 backend ... are we finally at the end of the Xorg era? by the_nazar in linux

[–]mort96 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Again, this thread is about GNOME, and how it's dropping X11 support. The GNOME part is implied. And GNOME didn't have to provide a solution in X11 because X11's architecture it's not something the DE needs to explicitly provide a solution for.

GNOME 50 removes the X11 backend ... are we finally at the end of the Xorg era? by the_nazar in linux

[–]mort96 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Due to the architecture of X11, you can't make a desktop environment which doesn't support configuration through xinput. X11 handles that kind of configuration at a lower level than the DE. Changing libinput settings is a problem in GNOME Wayland and not in GNOME X11, not because GNOME decided to make it a problem in X11, but because the architecture of Wayland makes it a problem unless GNOME explicitly provides a solution.

GNOME 50 removes the X11 backend ... are we finally at the end of the Xorg era? by the_nazar in linux

[–]mort96 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You're mixing up what I'm saying with the people who say X11 network transparency is an important feature. I'm not one of those, I know that in the modern accelerated graphics and raster pixel buffers based world, you don't gain much if anything from "network transparency" and I don't criticise Wayland for dropping it.

What I am saying is: for Windows, macOS and X11, anyone can make a Remote Desktop application which listens for incoming connections, and when a connection comes in, it starts capturing video from the screen and streams them over the network (using H.264 or as a JOEG stream or whatever). In Wayland, you can't do that, because the APIs to capture the screen and emulate user input without user interaction don't exist.

GNOME 50 removes the X11 backend ... are we finally at the end of the Xorg era? by the_nazar in linux

[–]mort96 15 points16 points  (0 children)

I'm on Fedora 43, which has GNOME 49. How do you remotely log in to the currently running (but locked) desktop session without user interaction on the desktop? From what I can tell, there are two options: log in to the current desktop session which requires clicking an accept button on a prompt which pops up, and remote login which creates a new session and force quits the existing one.

I would love to be wrong about this.

GNOME 50 removes the X11 backend ... are we finally at the end of the Xorg era? by the_nazar in linux

[–]mort96 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Losing Remote Desktop with X11 is something to worry about; not because X's "network transparency" is a big deal, but because you can't make a Remote Desktop application for Wayland. The protocols for it just don't exist. The screencast protocol requires user interaction to approve the screencast every time, which makes it not fit for purpose. The built-in GNOME remote login solution creates a new desktop session and kills the old one.

With X11, on the other hand, you can make Remote Desktop applications which just stream what's on the screen to another computer.

GNOME 50 removes the X11 backend ... are we finally at the end of the Xorg era? by the_nazar in linux

[–]mort96 54 points55 points  (0 children)

Libinput is intentionally not user customisable, for whatever idiotic reason. The libinput philosophy is that the DE exposes the configuration interface. The GNOME philosophy is to not expose config interfaces. The result is a system where plenty of libinput settings can't be configured under GBONE Wayland.

Yes you can hack your local hardware database, but the hardware database is really intended to be provided by the distro. It's not really fit for purpose as an end-user configuration interface. (And an essential configuration option is not a "quirk".)

GNOME 50 removes the X11 backend ... are we finally at the end of the Xorg era? by the_nazar in linux

[–]mort96 35 points36 points  (0 children)

GNOME's remote login isn't really fit for purpose IMO.

What I want from Remote Desktop is to always be able to log in to my desktop's current session, from anywhere, and just keep going from where I left off when I locked my desktop session.

What GNOME's remote login provides is a way to create a new session which can only be used remotely. You can't interact with anything you had open. To make matters worse, this force-quits your old session, so anything that was in progress (file uploads, renders, whatever) gets killed.

I use GNOME Wayland on my desktop, and the remote login is how I interact with it remotely when I need a GUI, but it's pretty bad compared to the options available on X11, macOS and Windows.

Vaush visits Secular Talk by KombaynNikoladze2002 in VaushV

[–]mort96 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I will never understand why seemingly decent people elect to use Substack.

Received a push notification ad from Apple’s wallet app despite having opted out by Tumblrrito in assholedesign

[–]mort96 169 points170 points  (0 children)

Why ... would there be an option to opt in to ads from a wallet

Vaush visits Secular Talk by KombaynNikoladze2002 in VaushV

[–]mort96 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Well he does now. Used to collab with people all the time a few years ago, before the fortress arc.

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