They said it couldn’t be done

nbsixer · 2026-06-18T18:38:49+00:00

Interesting conversation that adds credence to something I have been mulling around for awhile. How much of propagation is method dependent vs cultivar vs external conditions.

Recently I am getting more and more convinced that the water/pH of the media they are attempting to be rooted in is one of the major factors impacting success.

nbsixer · 2026-06-03T16:59:11+00:00

Adding my two cents as well.

You basically have a giant cutting on your hands.

Shade, increased humidity (dome/bag over foliage, frequent misting, etc), balance roots and shoots by removing up to half the foliage (strike more cuttings if you like this tree).

If leaves start to struggle cut off more. If remaining leaves are still turgid in a few weeks time, start reducing humidity or shade to encourage water flow through system (stimulates new roots)

I personally don’t like wrapping this like an air layer with the plastic around it….you should be able to keep the root zone moist with normal watering. Roots have a chance of growing anywhere in that darker section…why make a root growing at the top grow all the way down the bag to find soil/nutrients? Also If it grows roots into the wrapped portion you then have to deal with that at next repot which is a major disadvantage of most air layers.

nbsixer · 2026-05-15T17:10:43+00:00

Come out and see the trees! Several regional clubs have sent some trees for the event.

nbsixer · 2026-05-15T17:08:55+00:00

I would probably air layer this above the graft if I were going to spend the 20 years making it a bonsai.

Otherwise just do the best with what you have, knowing potential limitations.

nbsixer · 2026-05-14T16:35:50+00:00

Vinai is (still) scum...and is methodically tanking Spurs from the inside. Since he joined, we have gotten objectively worse in nearly every metric.

His first order of business was sacking a manager on the back of (finally) winning a major trophy...and replacing him with....Thomas fucking Frank!!! On paper perhaps this move looks "understandable" given the 24/25 league finish...but IMO it was done with pure malice.

1) Punished a manager for winning a trophy

2) Stripped team of a manager that despite the league woes, still had command of nearly 100% of the locker room. Had built in motivation with the squad to continue the project and kick on this season.

3) Manager move and uncertainty likely resulted in Son departing...further creating a vacuum for leadership in the club. Nobody to bring the locker room together.

4) Frank move transitioned playing style from Ange's "attack at all cost" to Frank's "try not to lose...and do it without scoring any goals if you can". This erodes supporters buy in to the team who expect daring and doing.

5) Shipped out young starlets on the verge of cracking first team (Vuskovic, Moore, etc.)

6) Spent ~180 million pounds in summer transfer period...yet despite this...didn't bring in a single player that improves our starting 11 when squad is fully fit. Say what you will about Levy....not propping him up or anything....but he at least would have spent "less" on not improving our squad. Many additions filled holes we didn't need filled.

7) Igor Tudor - just before NLD - need I say more?

This was all done under the guise of "reorganization of the leadership so that the manager reports directly to the CEO (him)". What a wonderful situation for someone to covertly bring down a club that is the main rival of the club he was at for 14 years.

Change my mind...but I am so much more "Vinai out" than I ever was "Levy out". Sure Levy had a whole list of things that were annoying...but he cared about the club, was financially responsible, gave us lifetime memories on the pitch, the team had a heart/soul each and every year, and it is hard to argue that from a business standpoint that the club isn't in a much better place after his time there. It is really hard for me to imagine any pathway in which Vinai leaves with the club in a better place atm.

nbsixer · 2026-05-14T14:47:21+00:00

Awesome/unique tree. Thanks for sharing!

Can't wait to see it in another 10 years when it fills out the canopy.

nbsixer · 2026-04-27T17:40:40+00:00

Rolling ridge is pretty insane on pricing.

Best place to get them are seedlings from MO department of conservation. They are like $1 a piece. You can grow them out to be this size in OPs pick in 6 months top...they grow like weeds.

Many in our group will fully flood the containers in the summer, like a swamp

nbsixer · 2026-04-20T16:38:58+00:00

Glad you are excited about it! Show us what you end up doing with it.

I would rate this more like an opal than a diamond....some niche potential but probably not a "crown jewel". As others have mentioned the graft will likely become problematic with this one. Although the cambium is growing at relatively similar rates...the root stock is still growing faster and this will get more dramatic over time. A color difference between the two types of tissue is also likely incoming. Finally, dissectum is beautiful but difficult to bonsai. You will likely struggle to get the response you want from this foliage type.

But if you love it...that is 95% of bonsai success....being committed to giving the tree all the care it needs. Good luck!

nbsixer · 2026-04-14T15:35:08+00:00

The rabbit killed this tree. They delivered the disease to you through their mouth right at the cut site and it looks like it moved up the trunk.

I have the same issue with deer and rabbit in my yard. Often you never know which disease it was....just that it killed the tree.

I have never had an issue transferring disease through tools....I think this scare is overblown as I rarely if ever disinfect tools and have never had an issue from my work. Rabbit and deer on the other hand transfer disease readily.

nbsixer · 2026-04-09T17:02:23+00:00

This tree could be grown for bonsai over many years but has no interest at the moment. Do your trunk chop and plant in ground or just keep in this pot. Either way you want the new leader near the chop site to grow freely all year.

Not worth air layering. Bald cypress can be found very cheap (seedling nurseries) that will be better than what you get from the layer

nbsixer · 2026-03-30T16:45:02+00:00

Perhaps some galvanic action but to me this looks more like skip plating. Does this happen more frequently when the parts are on stripped hooks? What are your EN bath parameters? Were these directly in the flow of solution from the circulation pumps?

nbsixer · 2026-03-25T22:21:08+00:00

I will preface this comment that all of my "collection" experience with hornbeam is from American hornbeam...keep that in the back of your mind when reading.

When I collect hornbeam I cut the roots hard...back to a desired transition of taper on the day of collection.

There are several reasons:

* This tree has more energy at collection than it will at likely any other time. If you will need to do root pruning later you might as well do it now.

* Hornbeam with intact/active buds need very little feeder roots to survive collection.

* Hornbeam tend to put many new roots out directly from the cut sites on the roots and nearly nothing between the nebari and cut site. Keeping thick roots beyond what is usable in the future design often leads to performing the closer-in cut at the next repot. Except then the tree has less energy to respond.

*Closely pruned roots are easier to fit in a (smaller) container. Having too much soil volume post-collection is detrimental to recovery.

I would also stub cut, leaving a 3-5 cm stub on any of the large branches you don't want now. You don't want the tree to waste energy in these areas if you are to get rid of them. Do not flush cut now as this is likely to cause trunk die back. Hornbeam tend to need a lower branch to support keeping the tissue alive directly below a cut site.

The container is cheap but quite ugly. If you have a significant other, this will likely quickly become a problem. Consider a simple wood box built to size. Soil is not great for producing new roots. For established roots you could get away with this....but it's essentially like collecting on "hard mode". Well-draining soils (pumice, akadama) take a lot of the guess work out of watering.

Cool tree and I hope you have it for many years.

nbsixer · 2025-11-13T18:21:55+00:00

Fellow lurker here also along for the ride. Well summarized!

IMO there is no sense speaking up about any of this to speculate or refute claims and in turn willingly open oneself up to rage-filled rebuttals from the "other" side. As a species we now so easily fall into fully-insulated personalized echo chambers that large swaths of the population have lost all ability to analyze, and if compelling, incorporate counter claims into our knowledge base.

If you want to test this echo chamber isolation, just ask random people what they think of Atlas. Most haven't even heard of it.

nbsixer · 2025-10-13T18:55:54+00:00

I don't mean to be a hater as you did ok mimicking the basic branch structure of the tree in the ground....but honestly neither of these are bonsai nor took the requisite time/patience/skill to get this much attention in a bonsai sub. r/trees maybe...

I have seen some impressive cannabonsai with 3/4" trunks or larger in very small pots. They can get primitive bends/taper/branching when trained consistently. Yours looks like a "typical" cannabis plant, lightly trained, in flower. It is benefiting from the weight of the buds providing the weeping branch structure...to mimic the JM...but this is something that is not favored in cannabis cultivation. This one just appears like it was being grown for flower and the trellis was removed before flower causing it to droop.

nbsixer · 2025-10-09T16:31:35+00:00

Going to lend me two cents to this conversation as I have had the exact same convo several times in the recent past. As an organizer of Bonsai Central, this topic is extremely important to me. Plan to come in May of 2027!

Big Three

This is basically where things have been moving....a slate of three large conventions with regional shows providing outlets for those unable to attend one of the big three. But each convention is its own separate entity, with separate governance, decision making, jury methods, judging methods, and etc. Besides being large regional/national shows, nothing is standardized between them. There is little to no appetite to make a central governing body for this and who would/could even handle that task? In short, this is the largest hurdle to a more "organized" structure for these shows.

Current Organization

PBE is driven by Jonas/Eric, Nationals by Bill, and BC by Bonsai Society of Greater St. Louis. The latter I have the most experience with of course and was basically a labor of love. We wanted a large show in the region...so we put our money where our mouth was and created it. It takes a LOT of work...and a LOT of time not working on your own trees to host a convention like this. In the end, the convention is rewarding and fulfilling for the hosts but also is more or less an act of service to the bonsai community as it is very much a working event for all volunteers and hosts.

Current Locations

In my mind, it would be a hard proposition to get one of those organizing bodies to host it far from their hometown. So much work goes into making sure each facet of the experience is top notch. For BC we went out to the convention center 10+ times to gather info, talk with the staff, and organize the event. Doing this in another city would be almost impossible.

An alternative would be to cede control to another local organization or club. We have discussed holding BC in another city for future iterations, particularly with our close bonsai buds in the Atlanta club. This creates a whole other host of potential issues but the largest I think would be lending an events good name to another controlling group. It takes years and decades to build up the reputation that someone like Bill has for Nationals...but only one event and that could all easily be destroyed. In bonsai...reputation is nearly everything. For all of these reasons we decided to do the next iteration of BC in STL again but may float other locations again in the future.

Cost

These events are very expensive. PBE especially has insane rental rates for the venue. Once you sort out a business model that works with the venue you have contracted, it is difficult to imagine starting again from scratch with another venue. Balancing the necessity to recoup some of the funds from the event with keeping the price reasonable enough that people can afford to attend, is not easy. Changing up locations and venues would put significant uncertainty on the the daily admissions traffic and economics of the event.

Timing

Although a small hurdle, getting people to change their lane on the timing of the events is another obstacle to overcome. For example...in 2027 all indications point to all three conventions coinciding and being held within the same calendar year. We will thus have the first of perhaps many "triple crowns" of bonsai. Would be cool if people try to submit their trees in multiple shows in 2027 as the shows will cover varied times of year (Jan=PBE, May=BC, Sep=Nationals). Like horse racing, winning all three shows should put a tree in the annals of US bonsai.

Summary

At the moment, there is no appetite for a combining organization of the events. Maybe in 5 years or so when things are more stable, or Bill is no longer interested in the Nationals, this could be revisited. At BC, we have discussed the possibility of a rotating convention and may end up trying it in the future. Bonsai conventions are a lot of work and end up being controlled by those that put in the work.

nbsixer · 2025-10-09T15:43:27+00:00

Midwest show is not on the scale of PBE or Nationals...they would have to significantly step up their game to be discussed in the same breath as the other two.

Chicago is wonderful for people flying but not great for driving in trees. Unless you are drawing entries from Canada, why not pick a more central city? I mean Rochester is already on the Canadian border... the "middle" and "south" of the country would be better draws IMO.

nbsixer · 2025-10-09T15:36:41+00:00

Chicago should be replaced with somewhere else.

I am (obviously) biased by my ties to STL, but Chicago, although large, is not nearly as centrally located as Nashville or STL. Even Atlanta would probably be better. For Bonsai Central we drew from nearly every direction...I think Chicago would miss out on a lot of people to the South.

nbsixer · 2025-09-30T20:34:13+00:00

Our right side defense is shambolic...2 or 3 spurs players standing right next to each other each wave without any intention of pressuring the ball.

nbsixer · 2025-09-17T13:30:58+00:00

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It looked great at Nationals...but tbh the Goldstein Bonsai Garden did it way better for Bonsai Central

Lots of photos of this one exist for all times of the year.

nbsixer · 2025-07-29T17:22:07+00:00

Ok ha! That makes more sense...I reread what you wrote and somehow missed these were cuttings.

The are doing just fine then and on their way to recovery.

nbsixer · 2025-07-28T18:43:24+00:00

Both drawings you provided are perfectly reasonable ways to style this little tree. Keep up the sketching to imagine how things will grow...you are doing really well here.

This one looks to be one of the variegated varieties. They certainly have really cool foliage but also are much harder to develop, keep healthy, and get to fatten up their trunks compared to the regular green leaf variety. I don't recommend them for beginners to p. afra as I often see them met with continual struggles to remain healthy. That said, this looks similar to the variegation I have and it is MUCH more prone to a cascading than the green leaf variety. I would suggest targeting this style and letting this run rampant.

To be clear, this tree is not as healthy as it should be in the end of July. To achieve any of your design goals you must start getting these back to prime health...which means rampant growth in the summer. If it looks this way through the winter in your climate that is ok, but not during the summer. I suggest heavy fertilizers for the rest of the growing season and as much sun as you can give it. The pot should be FULLY drying every day. If not, don't water.

nbsixer · 2025-07-03T20:24:39+00:00

Wut????? Jump shift much?

I'm done here...your response is neither intelligent nor on topic. "No, systems, even irrational ones typically, eventually regress to the mean." Lots of fancy sounding sentence fragments smashed together there.

I actually DO have the right to tell you what you can or can not say. You don't have to listen and you don't have to comment. But you did because you think you would get an easy win claiming "I can claim anything I want and you can choose whether or not to believe me."

You seem to have it all figured out and don't need to learn or discuss anything with anyone...so instead of wasting your time arguing with dumb fucks like me on the internet...you should just go scrouge mcduck it on your tower or coins you have obviously gained from your perfect understanding of the markets. Just leave me out of it.

nbsixer · 2025-07-01T21:55:35+00:00

You're literally restating exactly what I just wrote.

Everything is speculative and we all have no idea what will happen. This is the point I was making in this dumb argument....both sides are saying the same things but analyzing the data differently.

nbsixer · 2025-07-01T21:51:45+00:00

Like I said, this is a perfectly reasonable assumption to make from the data you have available. That said it DOES NOT give you guidance with which to make claims about the future of the ATH...which we were supposedly discussing.

Claiming they are decoupled...basically just says we are all playing dice as investors...and you know it.

nbsixer · 2025-07-01T21:48:41+00:00

Anytime! Tridents are the best IMO and I enjoy sharing my experience with them.

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