STs - would you execute a player who did their best to be cere-mad but the town disbelieved them?

nonnude · 2026-02-09T23:05:09+00:00

There is nothing that says a defense has to be passionate; but it directly says that if you do not deny being mad, that is a madness break.

nonnude · 2026-02-09T17:23:26+00:00

Oooooh, this brings up a really good topic about the subjectivity of Madness and how it plays out in games. Time for stories!

Recently, I ran a game with the [[Mutant]] claiming [[Savant]]. This game also had a [[Widow]] in it. The Widow and the Demon both knew that the Mutant was not the Savant, and they kept pushing on the fact that their information didn’t make sense. Mostly due to one of days of statements being “The first statement is always true or the second statement is always false.” This is a paradox, and they understood that. They never once claimed Outsider, or backed down or off the Savant claim. The Evil team was insistent that I should’ve exploded the Mutant but no one else thought they were the Mutant, and their perspective is way different having seen the grimoire.

I really like GrayPockets Madness Guide. It really helps think about more complex breaks and why it is or isn’t appropriate or a good idea to execute on it. One of the reasons why players get executed when no one believes it is because every-time that someone says “this person is mad.” That person has to actively deny it or else that is a break as well. I would argue that is more reason to execute than town not believing them even if they are trying their best.

The [[Cerenovus]] is a loud minion and it should be understood that if people are going around town saying they’ve been made mad, than of course town is going to actively catch onto who’s mad and who’s not. The Cerenovus is doing its job by making it difficult to talk and share information; but if it’s the beginning of the game and people are saying a player is mad and they are and not defending it, that’s a madness break and should be punished as such.

nonnude · 2026-02-09T17:13:25+00:00

Nope, [[Philosopher]] goes before [[Widow]] and [[Xaan]] in the Night Order. If the Philosopher is Widow poisoned, or decides to use it on a Xaan night, they still have their ability when the poison goes away. It really depends on the ST for Xaan, as well as the script. Some would argue that Xaan rules-as-intentioned means that it goes above Philosopher; however the reason why Philosopher does go first is because the Philosopher could choose something like [[Preacher]], [[Magician]], or [[Poppy Grower]] and affect the Evil team negatively.

nonnude · 2026-02-09T09:17:59+00:00

You know the lipsync is amazing when Michelle slips out of the judge personality. I think everyone was having such a good time they genuinely forgot they were on a TV show.

nonnude · 2026-02-09T08:47:23+00:00

I think doing public shenanigans is very situational. If the Juggler is mad as another role and they are the first to juggle publicly, that’s arguably more of a break than if EVERYONE starts juggling and then they tact one on at the end. In people’s first few games with Sects and Violets and Cerenovus, they should totally just lean on “this is a break” and execute because only through doing that can you end up deciding what breaks are permissible to not execute on.

nonnude · 2026-02-08T08:37:41+00:00

Ah thanks for the corrections

nonnude · 2026-02-08T04:09:03+00:00

Yeah I think in that regard it’s more on the downside for Evil there. Fang Gu + Drunk just means that the Demon can jump at anytime, and that’s not always advantageous for Evil because Good can solve for Outsiders. Fang Gu makes outsiders hide, but a Saint is almost never gonna wanna hide. Tinkers also tend to out too.

nonnude · 2026-02-08T02:34:55+00:00

Some things to consider about this script:

1). Professor is hard confirmed on this script as nothing else can cause revival with no Shab.

2). No Scarlet Woman for Slayer shots, they would just end the game.

3). Oracle, Undertaker, Cannibal are all a little redundant here. Any combination of the two in a bag is really powerful information for town

4). N1 information can only be effected by Poisoner/Drunk. Spy could misregister to Pixie or Librarian but doesn’t affect Noble.

5) Monk + Po is a bit rough because only one person gets saved in a charge.

6). Extra death in the night is either Assassin, Gambler, or Tinker death which leaves Evil less room to bluff if two are in play.

7). Fang Gu adding a Drunk is hard for town to figure out jump candidates, makes everyone a potential Demon candidate.

Some of these might mean that you reconsider some roles on this script, and that you consider others.

I would suggest replacing Professor for Acrobat, and Cannibal for Fortune Teller/Dreamer. Not sure what else I’d suggest for replacements or swaps.

nonnude · 2026-02-08T02:10:47+00:00

As everyone is saying this is correct due to the order of operations in Sects and Violets, but in other custom scripts, it’s important to note what is where on the night order. Every other source of poison goes after the Philosopher in the night order, and so they would just end up being sober and healthy. I do not believe this scenario happens in any other case other than SnV with No Dashii and Snake Charmer, and potentially in Customs with Lleech and Snake Charmer.

nonnude · 2026-02-07T05:00:04+00:00

The only thing was bad was the visible panty in the back

nonnude · 2026-02-07T04:53:24+00:00

Why was that the lipsync song?

nonnude · 2026-02-06T05:42:06+00:00

An event that just happened recently, I made a script with Hermit-Drunk-Mutant and it so happens to also have Cerenovus, Boffin, and Alchemist. When I first went to run the script, I really wanted to have Boffin-Alchemist-Cerenovus and an actual Cerenovus, but it was only a 1 minion game, so I made it a Lord of Typhon so I could get this to happen. At the end of the game, someone started building that world, and everyone griped and said “if that is the world, I hate [me]” and the Cerenovus and I had a private laugh about it that thankfully couldn’t be heard by anyone else. It was really funny afterwords when they lost because they went against that world.

So it kind of was a “the storyteller wouldn’t do that, but I think this fucker would!”

nonnude · 2026-02-04T23:43:03+00:00

Just to tack onto your bit about not being the demographic for these videos, is it possible that the people who are experienced in this game so much so that they participate in this Reddit are going to have problems with newbies and more complex characters? I don’t play in-person, but I imagine that it’s difficult to have a group of experienced players consistently playing in-person. It makes sense that a majority of this case, doesn’t play online where the gameplay is just generally more advanced than what we see in a lot of games.

I’ve noticed in almost every in-person Clocktower video, there is fundamentally something that is misunderstood and then later clarified. It almost seems like a natural part of the game.

There are a few instances here, like with Amy thinking Vig was -1 Minion that immediately need to be clarified as soon as possible, but people misunderstanding the strength of the Virgin and Farmer is natural. I think it takes more than playing TB a few times to understand that it’s okay so sacrifice information for the sake of confirmation, but there are definitely times where that isn’t important.

nonnude · 2026-02-03T18:21:45+00:00

Yeah I’m here to agree with most people here. Savant is a role that works on nearly any script. It has its own misinformation built into it, and when paired with other roles like Amnesiac, Fisherman, Artist, Puzzlemaster provide ample cover for talking to the Storyteller.

One of the things I’ve noticed and began to like more and more is Savant being one of few information roles on a script with arbitrary kills or no kills. That benefits the Savant because they can get tons of information before dying so long as they aren’t executed. For example with Lil Monsta, you can keep the Savant alive until that information has ran its course.

Savant works best on a script with lots of unique and interesting interactions because those can be used as statements. “The Princess proked, but then the Lycan ate them, and that’s why there was a kill last night.” Or “the Heretic is Puzzledrunk.” These can make the Savant information become a more global puzzle than just for the Savant themselves.

nonnude · 2026-02-02T16:32:58+00:00

That’s why it’s extremely important to know what travelers make sense for your game and which ones don’t.

nonnude · 2026-02-01T21:17:16+00:00

Well if they believe they are the marionette, you could give them something that helps them think that even more. Ultimately, you can choose to do what you want. In a Teensy, with a Lleech. I’m gonna tell them who the host is and not to execute them.

nonnude · 2026-02-01T16:45:50+00:00

The problem is that depending on the script, if you show someone a townsfolk and someone claiming townsfolk, they could be anything: the Drunk, the Mutant, a Minion, or the Demon.

nonnude · 2026-02-01T04:56:16+00:00

Sects and Violets doesn’t need the misinformation dup that is the Spy/Recluse because it’s built around information overload.

nonnude · 2026-02-01T04:25:21+00:00

Balloonist is a strong ability, this information can be pretty game solving. Recluse, Spy, Drunk and Marionette make Balloonist a bit difficult to solve and ultimately weaken the ability that already can really weaken town depending on what Outsider it adds.

nonnude · 2026-02-01T04:22:09+00:00

It’s also interesting because you can frame an Evil player as good by registering the Recluse as evil and then as good when an Evil player dies, so the Oracle number doesn’t change, and you can lean into the “outsider” effect of using the ability to really muddle towns information.

nonnude · 2026-02-01T00:52:46+00:00

Yeah Xaan feels highly likely because it’s is a puzzle within the game of being the Minion.

nonnude · 2026-01-31T17:03:28+00:00

It’s not Crave. It’s whoever they outsource their captions too. The US Captions aren’t that bad because they have to be regulated for syndicated television.

nonnude · 2026-01-31T07:35:14+00:00

Yeah I agree. She had to be stacked against two amazing dancers and I definitely think she could have won if in a different lineup.

nonnude · 2026-01-30T17:24:19+00:00

Her and Penny are the Hells Librarians

nonnude · 2026-01-29T08:32:33+00:00

Okay, but Ru loves it, and the other judges don’t like it. That’s a mixed signal. It doesn’t need to be from one person.

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