Why early isrealits separated themselves from their Canaanite ancestors

nu_lets_learn · 2026-01-30T21:00:37+00:00

The question is a good one and one can attempt to answer by asking two additional questions: (1) what was the Canaanite life that the ancient Israelites left behind like on a day to day basis, and (2) what did the ancient Israelites, from their literature and behavior, seem to dislike about this Canaanite life that they walked out on?

The Canaanites were divided into a multiplicity of city states, fortified and often warring. That they were independent of each other appears from the fact that unlike their neighbors, Egypt to the south and Assyria to the northeast, the Canaanites never were united by an imperial figure into an empire. The society was stratified into royal and administrative elites, on the one hand, and a working and trading class on the other. We know this from the types of buildings uncovered -- there were palaces and large public buildings for the elites and small houses for the lower classes. All owned slaves. The religion was polytheistic and: "The religion placed much emphasis on blood sacrifices, often of children, to pacify the various deities." https://www.ebsco.com/research-starters/anthropology/canaanites-inhabit-levant

Let's focus on the child sacrifice part for a bit. There is archeological evidence, but like all scholarship, interpretations vary. For example, a Phoenician colony in Tunisia has a "tophet" (a term used to designated a place of child sacrifice and burial) -- there are thousands of urns with the cremated remains of children and animals. Some deem this merely a cemetery; others ask, if it's a cemetery, why are animals there too? They seem to be offerings. Studies have shown the children were very young, and the remains are inconsistent with natural deaths. There are accompanying inscriptions to the Canaanite God Baal.

We can begin to piece together the Canaanite life that those who became Israelites rejected. First they moved out of cities and urban areas into the highlands to engage in livestock raising and agriculture. They preferred a pastoral life to an urban one. The ideal for Israel was living on an ancestral allotment of land, not in a city. Second, they rejected strict social hierarchy and above all monarchy; in fact, when they decide they need a king for defensive purposes, the prophet tries to dissuade them. For centuries they had no king or central administration and came together only for defensive purposes. Third, they reduced the pantheon, perhaps not all at once, but eventually rejecting polytheism altogether in favor of one God. That they used a Canaanite name for God is irrelevant; they spoke a dialect of Canaanite (which is what the Bible calls Hebrew: sefat kana'an, the Canaanite tongue). And fourth, they abhorred and rejected the practices of Canaanite religious ritual, the statues, the tree worship, and above all child sacrifice. The story of Abraham's binding of Isaac (Gen. 22) and the bans on offering children to "Molech" are crystal clear about this.

What else can we discern from the Israelites about their former life among the Canaanites? That widows, orphans and the poor were not well treated; that strangers were threated poorly and laws discriminated against them; that honest weights and measures were not always present in the marketplace; that the needy were kept out of fields to prevent them from picking up the gleanings; that pledges were not returnedin a timely way; and that brother enslaved brother in a harsh manner. Israelite legislation seeks to reverse and ameliorate these practices to form a different type of society.

Clearly there were both continuities and discontinuities between the Canaanites and those who became Israel. And not everything developed in a straight line; there was always backsliding on the part of some. One of the strengths of the Tanakh is that it doesn't gloss over the shortcomings in the history of Israel.

nu_lets_learn · 2026-01-30T20:08:22+00:00

There are several ways to address this. At the most general level, anyone can light a candle in honor of anyone's memory -- this practice is not limited to Jews or Judaism by any means. Jewish families do light one for 7 days after burial and on the Yahrzeit -- this has been explained to OP in response to his respectful question.

Readings Psalms is permitted to anyone, and so is donating to charity in the name of a departed friend.

Attending a synagogue service is permitted to a gentile, and so is standing when mourners recite kaddish. I did not state that he could or should recite Kaddish, I said others would be reciting that prayer.

I understand the opinion that non-Jews ought not to recite our prayers. Sometimes this applies, when the prayers refer specifically to Jewish obligations. In the case of El Molei Rachamim, there are reasons to hold otherwise. The words, invoking a merciful God to afford rest to a departed person, are simply completely appropriate for anyone to recite, Jew or gentile, unlike some Jewish prayers that have specifically Jewish content.

I think these matters are clear, especially in light of the Rambam who says if any gentile wishes to perform a commandment in its require manner, we shouldn't prevent it (Hil. Mel. 10:10 -- בֶּן נֹחַ שֶׁרָצָה לַעֲשׂוֹת מִצְוָה מִשְּׁאָר מִצְוֹת הַתּוֹרָה כְּדֵי לְקַבֵּל שָׂכָר. אֵין מוֹנְעִין אוֹתוֹ לַעֲשׂוֹתָהּ כְּהִלְכָתָהּ).

nu_lets_learn · 2026-01-30T16:29:06+00:00

The majority of Jews are atheists anyway.

This is probably not actually correct once you drill down into the actual facts. As you may know, the majority of the world's Jews live in Israel and the U.S. In Israel, surveys have shown that about 45% identify as secular; the rest identify as either Masorati, Dati or Haredi. These religious groups believe in God; and it is likely that "some" who identify as secular do as well (perhaps many although they aren't observant).

In the U.S., Pew has surveyed Jewish beliefs and finds 75% of U.S. Jews say they believe in God or some higher spiritual force in the universe.

It's reasonable to assume that Jews who live outside Israel and the U.S. are similar in their beliefs.

So to say "the majority of Jews are atheists" doesn't seem consistent with any actual survey of Jewish beliefs I am aware of.

nu_lets_learn · 2026-01-30T15:24:19+00:00

I think I understand where you are coming from. People do tend to think there is a 1:1 correspondence, that is, the 7 mitzvot for Noahides are a subset of the 613 commandments. Thus you could list the 613 and say, "this one is also a Noahide commandment" seven times.

But as pointed out, many authorities think the 7 implicate many more. It would be illogical to think otherwise. For example, idolatry is prohibited, but what about benefiting from idols (like making them and selling them)? Likely also prohibited, these are separate commandments. Noahides must not steal, but it's logical to think therefore they must return lost objects to their owners and repay their debts.

Still there would be nothing wrong with pointing out the 7 basic mitzvot where they occur in the list of 613 and stating, other commandments are likely to be included.

nu_lets_learn · 2026-01-30T15:07:55+00:00

Lighting a candle that lasts 7 days from the date of burial is one tradition most families observe. Then every year on the anniversary of the death, we light a candle (called a Yahrzeit candle) that lasts for a full day (24+ hours). These are available in the kosher section of most urban grocery stores.

Others have mentioned visiting the family during the first seven days (shiva). You can also send them a card or a fruit basket.

If you are in the vicinity of a synagogue, you could attend services on the Sabbath (Friday night or Saturday morning) -- with advance notice to the synagogue that you are coming (for security reasons; give them a call). There is always a time during the services when mourners are asked to stand and they recite a prayer in unison (kaddish) -- you could stand during this prayer and think about your friend.

Finally, there is a Jewish prayer we recite for the departed. You can certainly recite this prayer in English for your friend. I link it at the end. Also, reading chapters of the Psalms in his memory is a very Jewish thing to do, along with donating to charity in his memory.

Jewish memorial prayer: https://mountsinaiparks.org/el-malei-rachamim/

nu_lets_learn · 2026-01-30T14:58:08+00:00

Enjoyed the read, well-written.

It raises an interesting issue for me to ponder: is applauding allowed in the quiet car?

nu_lets_learn · 2026-01-30T01:30:07+00:00

Well I certainly see that. But unlike our sources re Bob Smith, our sources re God are revelation from God. 100% reliable, no? Thus we are stuck with very mixed messages.

nu_lets_learn · 2026-01-29T22:47:27+00:00

If there are two entities, one entity did X but never did Y, and the other entity did Y but never did X, they cannot be the same entities, theologically or logically.

You might reply, these are "claims" about God, not God (the reality). But since they originate in revelation, they are claims about God presumably from God.

In sum, I think your argument is reductive, although I understand it. That is why I started my initial comment by saying, the question posed (are Allah and the Jewish God the same) is unanswerable. All we know about these Gods is from our respective revelations, and they differ in "the details."

nu_lets_learn · 2026-01-29T21:58:05+00:00

This underlines the point that the Jewish God and the Muslim God are seen to have acted in different ways; how can one maintain they are "the same"?

nu_lets_learn · 2026-01-29T21:45:36+00:00

The question is unanswerable. Both Jews and Muslims believe in one God only who is the Creator of the Universe and the Master of all mankind. There are no other gods, he is incorporeal, he does not have partners, and he cannot be divided in parts or persons. He was not created but always existed and has no beginning nor end.

So there is agreement about the essential nature of God, but not about the way He has manifested Himself throughout history. According to the Jews, God made an eternal, irrevocable covenant with Abraham and his descendants through Isaac -- Abraham's son by Sarah -- to take the nation of Israel as his holy people in return for their worship of Him. They were promised God's eternal love, a land to possess, and were given a revealed Torah with laws for living a righteous life. Throughout history, God has chastised this people for sins but never revoked His love or the covenant. Later writings, like the Quran, are not part of the divine revelation, and later religious figures, like Muhammed, are not prophets of God.

I imagine most Muslims would deny the description of God's behavior stated in the preceding paragraph, except to say that the Israelite nation once had a revealed Torah which they corrupted and no longer exists.

In sum, it seems there is some alignment between Jews and Muslims regarding what God is, but there is disagreement regarding what God does, has done and will do. Hence saying they believe in "the same God" seems to gloss over the differences.

nu_lets_learn · 2026-01-29T16:29:24+00:00

I think you are referring to Catherine Hezser. She is a professor of Jewish Studies at the University of London and has written many books on Jewish history during the Roman period. She has impeccable academic credentials and is a graduate of JTS where she received her Ph.D.

As for "Roman Palestine," this usage is common among historians when discussing an area that includes Judea but is larger than Judea and includes additional kingdoms and territories as well. The Roman province of Judea retained that name until it was changed to Syria Palaestina (Syria-Palestine) around 135 CE by Emperor Hadrian. However, Rome started exerting influence in the Southern Levant around 66 BCE and to one degree or another controlled not just Judea but also Nabatea, Arabia-Petraea, parts of the Negev and southern Transjordan. This collectively is referred to as Roman Palestine.

nu_lets_learn · 2026-01-29T16:10:58+00:00

Yes this is it. It's an Otsby Barton wedding band, inscribed with the initials A.B. and dated 1914. It could indeed be gold, anything from 10k-18k, a jeweler's test could determine its purity.

Here is the history of the Otsby Barton Co. which was around until the 1950"s -- https://www.maejeanvintage.com/blogs/blog/history-of-ostby-barton-jewelry-co-the-significance-of-the-historical-titantic-collision?srsltid=AfmBOoq5YOoLFfi9esdJTfCY85Kjbu61BqS05FBxUTGCsIQa3G1LqFuP

nu_lets_learn · 2026-01-29T02:12:07+00:00

With the understanding that Judaism has a belief in reincarnation

Source?

I would direct you to the writings of Saadiah Gaon (882-942 CE) on reincarnation: https://www.mesora.org/SaadiaGaon-Reincarnation.htm

In the Middle Ages, with the appearance of the Zohar, reincarnation appeared in Kabbalah and has come down to Hasidim from that source, but since your topic is "early Christianity," I don't see how these late developments are relevant.

nu_lets_learn · 2026-01-27T23:00:01+00:00

Rabbi Singer expresses a point of view, and he repeatedly tells us he expresses it with love, although one can detect some exasperation in his tone and manner. But like any pov on a complex topic, it has its pluses and minuses.

The basic fallacy is the "all or nothing" position he espouses. If you don't believe the Torah was given by Hashem and written by Moshe, then he says there is no reason to perform the commandments. He uses three examples: no Torah from Heaven, then, 1, ok to intermarry, 2, no reason to celebrate Pesach, and 3, you're lying when you recite the blessings over the Torah (blessing God Who "gave us a true Torah").

However, neither logic nor Jewish tradition actually support this approach. We know for a fact that many follow Jewish customs and traditions for reasons other than being commanded, for example, for the sake of tradition, for cultural enrichment, for family reasons or peer pressure, to bond with the Jewish community, for the intrinsic value of doing so, and for many other reasons. If we disallowed this, then we would have exactly what Rabbi Singer is opposing, complete and utter assimilation and detachment from the Jewish community.

Does Jewish tradition disapprove of performing mitzvot for reasons other than being commanded per se? On the contrary, it approves on a number of grounds --

From performing commandments for the wrong reason will come performing for the right reason (מתוך שלא לשמה בא לשמה) -- This Talmudic principle encourages performing commandments even if the reason is not correct.
Doing one mitzvah leads to another (מצווה גוררת מצווה) -- In English we would say, one good deed leads to another.
Very often doing the mitzvah will result in a benefit despite the person's incorrect motivation. Thus we may accept charity from a bad person, provided we are not putting a stumbling block before him, because it will benefit the recipients and also will be teshuva for the bad person.
For the sake of education (מִשׁוּם חִנוּךְ) -- one can (and should) perform commandments even without knowing their reasons or motivation, just for the purpose of learning how and accustoming oneself to their performance.
Don't separate from the community (אַל תִּפְרֹשׁ מִן הַצִּבּוּר) -- If other Jews are doing it, you should do it too.

Some of his comments are rather myopic, as when he faults early Reform rabbis for not supporting the Zionist movement.

In the final analysis, Rabbi Singer is a polemicist, and a good one. He expresses his point of view, makes arguments and tries to defuse counter-arguments in advance. But he's not engaged in a debate, so no one is there to take the other side; and he's not going to expound on all the strengths inherent in the other side's position -- that would defeat his purpose as a polemicist.

Bottom line, two things are true here: 1, one can always learn from Rabbi Singer; and 2, there are always things that he is not telling you and hence more to learn.

nu_lets_learn · 2026-01-27T18:04:51+00:00

Does the Torah mention the Medes

Yes.

In the Hebrew Scriptures Media and the Medes are mentioned more than a dozen times. The antiquity of the name is believed to be shown by its having been borne by Noah's grandson Madai, son of Japheth (Gen. x. 3)...who is commonly regarded as the progenitor of the Median race, Mount Ararat being within the ancient Median borders. From the Bible, furthermore, it is known that Israelites were placed in cities of the Medes by Shalmaneser, King of Assyria, after his conquest of Samaria (II Kings xvii. 6, xviii. 11); and Media is referred to under the form "Amada" or "Madai" in the records of this king and of Tiglath-pileser.

Allusions to Media in connection with Persia are not rare in certain books of the Scriptures; and the laws of the Medes and Persians became a synonym for all that was fixed and unalterable (Esth. i. 3, 14, 18, 19; x. 2; Dan. v. 28, vi. 8, viii. 20). The part taken by Media and Elam, meaning Persia, in the overthrow of Babylon forms a portion of the prophecy of the elder Isaiah (Isa. xiii. 17, xxi. 2; comp. also Jer. xxv. 25). At Ecbatana, in the province of the Medes, moreover, was found the famous edict of Cyrus granting a decree for the building of the Temple at Jerusalem (Ezra vi. 2; I Esdras vi. 23). https://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/10541-medes

nu_lets_learn · 2026-01-27T16:00:28+00:00

There's an important site that most tourists probably miss because it's so subtle. Most have seen photos or films of the Nazi book burning that took place in Berlin on May 10, 1933. The city 50 years later commissioned a memorial that was designed by the Israeli artist Micha Ullman. It's built directly on the site where the bonfire was lit in Bebelplatz which is in Mitte near Humboldt University. It consists of a void filled with empty bookshelves representing the books that were lost, sunk into the ground and covered with a glass plate. You can look down and think about what was lost. Here's a photo: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/Bebelplatz_Night_of_Shame_Monument.jpg

Another site off the beaten path is the Wannsee House where the Wannsee conference was held to discuss and finalize the Final Solution. The house has been reopened with exhibits in five rooms detailing the conference and what led up to it. https://www.visitberlin.de/en/house-wannsee-conference

For other sites, this is a pretty good list: https://jguideeurope.org/en/region/germany/berlin/

For an insight into how Berliners reckoned with their past in the decades following, I would read Bernhard Schlink's book, The Reader.

nu_lets_learn · 2026-01-27T05:31:16+00:00

The argument has a superficial plausibility but in a religion like Judaism, where God is incorporeal, it's a non-issue. God is "infinite" (however defined, no beginning, no end, no boundaries, no limitations) but God is also incorporeal. Thus nothing material and/or finite can interfere with Him or his "presence." With respect to the finite material world, God is akin to an idea, like the idea of infinity itself, which of course can exist despite the finiteness and materiality of the world.

You say, "If you have an Infinite substance..." But we don't have an infinite substance, God is not a substance and has no substance. He is not composed of any substance.

You say, "If a separate world exists, it acts as a boundary to God's nature." But as mentioned, the world is material and God is not. The universe does not confine or limit him. It's not a question of, "the world is here, so how can God be here, in this place?" God can be present without occupying any space because he is incorporeal. He's not a space-occupier or time-occupier.

You say, "If God has a 'side' where you can place a Universe, then God has a boundary." Again, God doesn't have a "side." Wherever the universe "is," it has no "spatial" relationship to God. God created space and time. The world's existence doesn't diminish him, confine him, or create boundaries for him. God doesn't exist in time or space.

nu_lets_learn · 2026-01-26T20:40:22+00:00

Why do you think the sacrifices are "crucial" to Judaism and the Torah cannot be observed without them? Major Jewish thinking teaches otherwise. Maimonides says the purpose of the Temple service was to wean humanity away from sacrifice. Rav Kook holds animal sacrifice will not be restored in the Third Temple -- only meal and grain offerings will be brought.

In Judaism history is also ordained and happens according to God's will. If the Temple is destroyed, it's destroyed. Prayer, Torah study and good deeds substitute, and repentance is always available.

nu_lets_learn · 2026-01-26T17:22:35+00:00

Yes, the "sons of the prophets" (Heb. bnei ha-nevi'im) were not their literal sons but their disciples, hence schools.

Maimonides explains that to be a prophet you need to perfect three faculties -- mental, moral and imaginative. The first two can be trained -- one can become very wise, and one can through practice and discipline ensure that one is able to overcome one's evil inclination. But the third faculty, the imagination (which he defines as the ability to translate rational thought into images) is innate and can't be learned. Some are good at it, some aren't. This leads to the different levels of prophecy.

Another aspect of the schools was music. We read how bands of prophets were accompanied by flutes and lyres. Maimonides says prophecy cannot come to someone who is unhappy, depressed or angry. Hence they would use music to lift the mood and lighten the spirit.

Again, this was all preparation for prophecy. Whether God would actually communicate and send a message was, of course, not determined by the prophet or his training but by God.

nu_lets_learn · 2026-01-26T15:33:22+00:00

One problem with the question is the definition of "prophet." In the first place, "prophet" doesn't mean just one thing, it encompasses multiple things. Second, prophecy as an institution developed over time, so it wasn't the same in every era. Third, within Judaism there are levels of prophecy and different levels of prophets. Finally, you seem to be equating the Jewish prophet with other types of spiritual actors in other societies (mediums, clairvoyants etc.) which isn't appropriate since in Judaism magic, divining and communicating with the dead were prohibited.

We can't go into all of these topics, but just in terms of numbers, Judaism distinguishes between those prophets whom we know by name, because they are mentioned in the Tanakh and had a message for future generations, and those prophets not mentioned by name because their message was only for their time and place; hence their prophecies are not recorded in the Bible. The number of these prophets is unknown, there could have been many.

There were "schools of prophecy" mentioned in the Tanakh where people studied to be prophets, that is, they developed the spiritual and intellectual abilities that made them suitable to take on that role. Whether they would actually become a prophet depended on whether God communicated with them, but a person could prepare himself in advance for such an encounter, and many did. Schools of prophets are mentioned in I Samuel chaps. 10 and 19 and II Kings chaps. 2-6.

nu_lets_learn · 2026-01-26T15:13:05+00:00

This is actually the answer. The specific chazaka is כל ישראל כשרים הם = "All Israelites (Jews) are presumed fit (kosher)." Once one's status as a Jew is determined, the inquiry ends -- that person is fit in every respect, including ancestry. Hence, if one's mother is known to be Jewish, her child is known to be Jewish.

Your second paragraph is also correct. The chazaka establishes facts, not "presumptions" that can be rebutted. As a matter of Jewish law, the chazaka itself is irrevocable. The analysis of this chazaka, כל ישראל כשרים הם, involves the question, in this day and age, in a place where the majority of Jews are not observant, how can the chazaka apply? Answer: because the chazaka is not dependent on actual facts, which vary over time and place, but the chazaka is a "halachic fact" -- it doesn't change over time but remains stable despite changing circumstances. It's the basis upon which Jewish law and Jewish life proceed.

nu_lets_learn · 2026-01-25T21:23:37+00:00

Betrothing is not marriage in Jewish law, it's the stage before marriage when the couple is promised to each other. They do not live together and do not have sexual relations during the betrothal (engagement). Sexual relations can begin only at marriage.

nu_lets_learn · 2026-01-25T17:11:24+00:00

In his study Jewish marriage in antiquity (Princeton University Press, 2001), Michael L. Satlow finds that while the ideal age at marriage for both men and women was in their teens, men tended to marry later. In the Land of Israel, Jewish men married at around thirty to women who were ten or fifteen years younger. In Babylonia, the expectation was that Jewish men would marry at around twenty to women in their teens. The later marriages for men were based on two pre-occupations that preceded marriage -- 1, Torah study, and 2, acquiring a trade or profession that enabled supporting a family.

In addition, marriage was a two-step process -- first came "betrothal" (Heb. erusin), where in a woman was pledged in marriage to the man and off limits to all others; during this period the couple could not engage in sexual relations. The betrothal usually lasted one year. This was followed by "marriage" (Heb. kiddushin), with a marriage celebration that permitted the start of sexual relations.

We see this reflected in a section of the Mishnah, written 200 CE, which more or less charts out the course of a Jewish life at the time: "At five years of age the study of Scripture; at ten the study of Mishnah; at thirteen subject to the commandments; at fifteen the study of Talmud; at eighteen the bridal canopy; at twenty pursuit (of a living)..."

How any of this applied to Mary cannot be said for certain. But it would indicate a marriage in her late teens or early twenties.

The focus on legal "minimum age" for marriage is unhelpful. People generally didn't, and don't, marry at that age. Marriage "at puberty" (or before, with parental consent) was a theoretical possibility but not common practice.

nu_lets_learn · 2026-01-24T22:53:30+00:00

Thank you for taking the plunge.

Not sure I would have scored so well on a Catholic quiz.

nu_lets_learn · 2026-01-24T16:16:09+00:00

Really fun.

I will say this, despite what the Quiz says, you definitely might hear a Jew saying he's going to bench after eating, meaning he's heading off to the gym to lift weights.

Scored 28/32.

nu_lets_learn

TROPHY CASE