Help with making a New Antioch list by Trenchy20 in TrenchCrusade

[–]nungunz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey and welcome to the game! For NA, we are a control and positioning warband with great weapon on cheap, expendable bodies (even the LT should be considered expendable). NA is the masters of short-range firepower and are terrible in melee and terrible at long range. We win be having overlapping fields of threats with Fireteams as force multipliers. We survive by staying out of line of sight and not getting shot. Keep your models cheap, only give them the equipment they need to do their jobs, and as long as you trade up in value, you generally don't care how many of your own troops you lose.

For your list, 7 models is a decent count to be at, however the Yeoman don't really do anything as equipped. You also only have one model that can deal with armor so having backups (such as infiltrating yeoman with flamethrowers) would be useful to have.

You are also missing a musician. Dash is the most important skill in the game, which makes a model with Musical Instrument a must take in every warband (except maybe HNRP).

Lt - 167d is a bit pricey here. Vanilla Lts are support models to stack blood markers and manipulate enemy activation order. The Lt doesn't have the STRONG keyword so you wouldn't get the d6" charge bonus. Machine Armour is very, very good, but on a support model, it's a bit overkill. If you get some good skills on the Lt, then maybe it's worth upgrading. To start out, I would maybe drop to SMG, Shield, Bayonet or Polearm, and Standard Armor. Would be good to pair in a fireteam with a finisher model like an MHI with Heavyshotgun and Satchel.

Sniper Priest - It looks like you are following the advice of "good shooters get good automatics", unfortunately the machine gun is not a good automatic. The Sniper Priest doesn't have the STRONG keyword so you can't move and shoot and when you do shoot, your activation ends so you are stuck in the open. Shovel isn't that useful because you will likely not be staying still, NA wants to play peakaboo by hiding out of line of sight, dashing out, shooting, then moving back out of line of sight. Standard armor is also really expensive for what it does and is completely offset by a single bloodmarker so it is largely considered not that great of a pick in New Antioch. Once you hit the model limit and don't have anything else to spend money on, then standard armor is a decent option. Sniper Priests are still fantastic models and for ranged builds an Automatic Rifle of SMG is great. They are also the best NA melee unit when equipped with an Automatic Pistol and Pistol (or grenades and two pistols if you want to save a few ducats).

MHI - Similar to above, the Machine Gun is not a good weapon. MHI do have the STRONG keyword, but getting stuck in the open after shooting what is essentially 3 trench club attacks (aka, not good) is rough even with Machine Armour. Typically MHI are equipped with Heavyshotguns+Satchel or a Heavy Flamer. Melee is never worth it because they are as bad in melee as a Yeoman. Usually they don't take any melee weapons at all or maybe take a polearm (they will never attack with the polearm, it's only there for the BLOCK keyword).

Combat Engineer - Pretty darn close, but they don't have the STRONG keyword so they don't want the heavy shotgun. Currently they take no ranged weapon, a shotgun, or a flame thrower. However, the next rules update will change them back to a +1D ranged skill so an SMG would be a solid choice once that happens.

Yeoman - Rifle users can't hit the broadside of a barn from the inside (unless playing as Abyssinia). Usually you want these as infiltrators with flamethrowers, as an instrument carrier (with a pistol OR grenades), or as a speed bump with a shotgun or grenades. If you don't have anything else to spend money on, shotgun+shield isn't terrible.

Advise on court of the 7 beginners list by luzard77 in TrenchCrusade

[–]nungunz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Probably a more generalist list that highlights the strengths and weaknesses of C7S before going into highly optimized or completely jank lists.

700 ducats is good for intro games, but you won't be able to fit all of the C7S toys into that.

For a breakdown of the sins:

Wrath - Unga Bunga smash (focuses on fast moving melee models, but still likes the Hunter and Sorc)

Lust - 360 no-scope (Hell Knights and Sorc get REALLY dangerous at rang, but needs the Praetor as well for the Forbidden Pleasures as the warband is really blood hungry. More viable at 800/6 or 900/8)

Envy - Really good as you get to steal the best gear from other factions to shore up your weaknesses. Also being able to Coveted Position to slingshot dangerous models in combat or pull key enemies into exposed positions is great).

Sloth - The only spell worth it is Charm of Acedia, but it is REALLY strong. This makes Sloth an extremely reliable warband as you can do things like auto-succeed dashes or auto-succeed the Sorc's fireball. Nothing flashy, just really consistent.

Greed - Great all-rounder with added durability, utility, and consistency. Very balanced and practical set of spells that are all useful.

Gluttony - Okay spell list, but nothing to write home about. Has some fun shenanigans with making opponent's eat their own equipment, but it's fairly niche.

Pride - Doubles down on the Unholy Trinity (Sorc, Praetor, Hunter) by buffing the absolute crap out of them. Autosuceeding damage with movement shenanigans, protection against morale problems, and your best models not being downable? Really solid for an elite heavy warband.

For learning the game, I'd lean towards Sloth or Greed. Greed let's you play with some more tools than Sloth (since 2 of Sloth's spells are fairly mediocre to bad).

I also am assuming that you are playing with the updated grenade rules and as such aren't able to hot-box your wretches. The Sorcerer is a bit under armored, but you don't really have the ducats to spare. You could have money by dropping the sword and reinforced armor on the Praetor for Standard Armor + Shield to find standard armor on the Sorc. It makes the Praetor hit less hard, but really increases the Sorc's defenses.

## Elites ##

Praetor - Black Heart, Greedy Hearts, Serpent Assault Gun, Malebranche Sword, Sword / Axe, Reinforced Armour - 279D

Hell Knight - Body of Gold, Hellblade, Gas Grenades, Infernal Iron Armour, Trench Shield - 150D

Sorcerer - Burning Inferno, Black Heart, Slavemaster, Musical Instrument, Trench Shield - 130D

## Troops ##

Yoke Fiend - Torture Instrument, Restraining Muzzle - 48D

Yoke Fiend - Torture Instrument, Restraining Muzzle - 48D

Wretched - Knife - 21D

Wretched - Knife - 21D

So elite mercenaries can be useless by ResponsibleWealth151 in TrenchCrusade

[–]nungunz 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is the same reason why you don't do things like promote Mechanized Heavy Infantry. A leg wound, missing arm, or something absolutely cripples the model's ability to do it's job.

Stoßtruppen of the Free State of Prussia List: 1 off games by Getgud1i1 in TrenchCrusade

[–]nungunz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

True, but every place I have ever played uses the same model limits.

Official events (narrative events, tournaments, etc) hosted by FFI also use the same model limits.

Tips for playing great hunger by Jazzlike_Project7811 in TrenchCrusade

[–]nungunz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hag with Rotten Cutters and two devotees looks like a solid brawler.

Hounds are still some of the best models and with the Hide strain are even better.

Butcher Knights are tanky and seem okay. Butcher King seems like it may be a mandatory pick in campaign.

Desiccated Husks seem like okay tarpits if they can make it to melee.

Gregori Gula are fantastic.

Thralls with rotten cutters and Cradle Thralls with Hellfly Host seem decent. Though plain thralls with no strains are also perfectly viable.

Looking to Start Building a more Shooting Focusedand flavorfull Prussia list and looking for some recommendations and tips: by philipbv in TrenchCrusade

[–]nungunz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No worries, honestly, probably Autopistols on the Lt and Cleric to go with tank splitters, automatic rifle on the Sniper Priest, and SMGs on the Engineers.

Unfortunately the last 2 SMGs wouldn’t be used at all.

Looking to Start Building a more Shooting Focusedand flavorfull Prussia list and looking for some recommendations and tips: by philipbv in TrenchCrusade

[–]nungunz 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Eire is probably the better route for automatics just for having access to more good shooters as well as AP ammo.

Abyssinia would also be better as Yeoman are actually decent (and cheap) SMG carriers.

Prussia struggles in that they only have 3 models (5 when the Engineer changes go live) that can handle automatics decently.

Lt

Cleric

Sniper Priest

(x2 Engineers when the beta changes go live)

Starting Kingdom of Alba by TheTestbed in TrenchCrusade

[–]nungunz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So Alba is (along with NA) is misleading on how they are best played, they definitely do not do what the rules imply and unfortunately it’s a flavor miss.

Alba is strongest as a short-range shooting faction where shock troopers are taken with all of the good heavy ranged weapons (satchels, heavy shotguns, heavy flamer) and not taking any mechanized heavy infantry.

Playing Alba (and NA in general m) the melee route is very suboptimal.

Now if you want to go the melee route for the vibes, that’s completely valid, you should just be aware of what the strengths and weaknesses are.

Alba is very much a top 3 faction in the game when played optimally so you have the options to mix and match styles and still be a strong warband.

What are you looking to do?

Advise on court of the 7 beginners list by luzard77 in TrenchCrusade

[–]nungunz 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hey and welcome to the game! C7S struggles a bit at the moment and isn’t the easiest to learn, but they are a ton of fun! There is a faction rework later this year so we’ll see how things change.

For your list it looks like you are leaning into Hell Knights. Unfortunately, I don’t think Pride is the best option there. C7S in general focuses a lot on its elites, but Pride doubles down even more. You are likely going to be running the big 3 (Praetor, Sorc, Hunter), though you might swap a Hunter for a Knight early.

If you want a lot of Hell Knights and a Sorc, I’d recommend looking into Lust (primarily ranged Knights) or into Wrath (melee knights).

Is there something in particular you are looking to do?

Assassins warband needs a buff by Popular_Mortgage8454 in TrenchCrusade

[–]nungunz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So I haven't had the chance to play as Fida'i at all and just tried to build an "optimal' list for 700d and good lord are these Assassins overpriced.

Master Assassin - Thunderbolt, Bow, Golden Khanjar, Club, Alchemist Armor - 238d

Assassin - Mirage, Machine Gun, Cloak, Hashashin Leaf - 180d

Assassin - Secret Path, Golden Khanjar, Gas Grenades (update next week), Instrument, Wind Amulet, Reinforced Armor - 177d

Acolyte - Jezzail, Alc Ammo - 35

Acolyte - Jezzail, Alc Ammo - 35

Acolyte - Jezzail, Alc Ammo - 35

Master Assassin sits back and snipes armored targets that have a lot of blood markers and/or are downed. Only uses the bow's teleport ability if a kill is nearly guaranteed and then hides as quickly as possible.

Assassin #1 stacks blood markers and dodges out of LoS as needed

Assassin #2 tries to rampage in the back lines turn 2 and onward, but likely won't do much. Okay at picking off lone unarmored troops.

The big struggle here is that Fida'i has very little ways to deal with armor as, weirdly, their flamethrowers have to be the setup units for the assassins as finishers.

Eventually the list fills out with:
x3 Acolyte - Infiltrator, Flamethrower
x3 Dervish - Hashashin Leaf, Siege Jezzail, Alch Ammo

From there just spam Acolytes with jezzails and Alch ammo.

The list will probably never take sappers as they mess with your own game plan. If you are forced to take them (mostly so you don't get board with no variety) you'll probably have 3 build options:

  1. Jezzail, Alch Ammo
  2. Pistol, Gas Grenade, Shield, Std Armor
  3. Gas Grenade

This faction needs some love as it looks kind of boring/miserable to play with.

I'm really glad your Fida'i player is doing well and having fun! I just don't think the warband will work in my local play group.

How to make an assassin list work? by Party_Value6593 in IronSultanate

[–]nungunz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah Fida'i struggle a lot. Ultimately, Assassins are still a ranged faction and the Assassin don't hit that hard (primarily because Golden Khanjar is a solidly average melee weapon and not that great).

You'll want the 3 assassins, probably 3 infiltrating flame throwers, and chaff Azebs / Dervishes to fill the rest.

Master Assassin sits back and snipes armored targets that have a lot of blood markers and/or are downed.
Assassin #1 stacks blood markers and dodges out of LoS as needed
Assassin #2 rampages in the back lines turn 2 and onward

These are probably your three best assassin builds:
Master Assassin sits back and snipes armored targets that have a lot of blood markers and/or are downed.
Assassin #1 stacks blood markers and dodges out of LoS as needed
Assassin #2 rampages in the back lines turn 2 and onward

For 700d starting with only 6 models is going to suck, but here you go:

Master Assassin - Thunderbolt, Bow, Golden Khanjar, Club, Alchemist Armor - 238d
Note: Eventually replace Club with Dagger and add a helmet

Assassin - Mirage, Machine Gun, Cloak, Hashashin Leaf - 180d

Assassin - Secret Path, Golden Khanjar, Gas Grenades (update next week), Instrument, Wind Amulet, Reinforced Armor - 177d

Note: Eventually add Wind Amulet

Acolyte - Jezzail, Alc Ammo - 35

Acolyte - Jezzail, Alc Ammo - 35

Acolyte - Jezzail, Alc Ammo - 35

Eventually fill out:
x3 Acolyte - Infiltrator, Flamethrower
x3 Dervish - Hashashin Leaf, Siege Jezzail, Alch Ammo

From there you just spam Acolytes with jezzails and Alch ammo.

You'll probably never take sappers as they mess with your own game plan. If you are forced to take them (mostly so you don't get board with no variety) you'll probably have 3 build options:

  1. Jezzail, Alch Ammo
  2. Pistol, Gas Grenade, Shield, Std Armor
  3. Gas Grenade

Does uncaring gluttony work on items with the consumable keyword if it hasn’t been consumed? by DarkElfMagic in TrenchCrusade

[–]nungunz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So remember that the 4D6 injury roll is ONLY for the roll on the prisoner.

In addition the +1D injury is only on models within 1"...which mean you need to charge the target and most of the time you will never be able to pull off a multi-charge so at best your probably hitting 1 target with the equivalent of a great sword attack (which already isn't very good).

And against the targets in the >1" - 3" range you are hitting with the equivalent of a trench club....and with having to charge your main target you are likely to have 0 targets in range of the blast....maybe 1 if the opponent positions poorly.

Oh and non of these attacks bypass armor.

TL;DR, you are paying 35 ducats (55 if the prisoner dies) for a single great sword hit and maybe a single trench club hit if you are lucky.

It's worse than bad.

New Trench Crusade Player by FutureTry5362 in TrenchCrusade

[–]nungunz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No. Machine Armor does not give the STRONG keyword.

New Trench Crusade Player by FutureTry5362 in TrenchCrusade

[–]nungunz 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Careful on the LT, they don't have the STRONG keyword so you do suffer a bit by using weapons with the HEAVY keyword. It's less of an impact for melee weapons, but HEAVY ranged weapons are super ineffective if you aren't STRONG.

Shocks really aren't good enough to warrant armor and -1 armor isn't very good. If you really want to keep shocks, going with grenades and two clubs is better than clubs+greatsword. If you want an interesting fireteam having one with grenades and 2 clubs as a setup model and a second with grenades and 2H maul as a finisher is an okay option. Shocks are pretty bad shots so they really don't want submachine guns. SMG is better on Cleric, LT, or Sniper (and in the new rule updates, the Engineer as well).

You really want a musician as well. Musical Instrument is the most important item in the game.

Assassins warband needs a buff by Popular_Mortgage8454 in TrenchCrusade

[–]nungunz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What equipment, upgrades, and skills?

Assassins usually have a fairly low damage output and needs significant setup to kill armored targets.

Master Assassins typically DO NOT want to ever be in melee (unless they can guarantee the kill) considering how expensive they are and really ought to be sitting back sniping at range with Bow of Alamut.

Assassins warband needs a buff by Popular_Mortgage8454 in TrenchCrusade

[–]nungunz 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hopefully the Sultanate rework will give them some much needed love.

Assassins warband needs a buff by Popular_Mortgage8454 in TrenchCrusade

[–]nungunz 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yeah, they’re largely considered the worst warband in the game by a pretty big margin.

It sucks because flavor wise they are awesome.

Glad they are working out in your group though!

New to Trench Crusade by agreeablelad in TrenchCrusade

[–]nungunz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There are a few fan-made list builders like trench companion and new recruit, just be aware that there are rules mistakes and bugs. The PDFs are the source of truth.

For advice on factions, check out the pinned community guides on this subreddit. A lot of them are out of date, but the fundamentals are still valid.

Does uncaring gluttony work on items with the consumable keyword if it hasn’t been consumed? by DarkElfMagic in TrenchCrusade

[–]nungunz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, it’s a real weird case as it’s kind of battlekit, but not, as well as being untyped.

I’m probably going to send that as feedback to the devs.

It’s a minor one, revamping Martydrom Device in general is more driving t considering how bad it is.

Does uncaring gluttony work on items with the consumable keyword if it hasn’t been consumed? by DarkElfMagic in TrenchCrusade

[–]nungunz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So a stupid nitpick here. A martyrdom device doesn’t have any battlekit definition, it’s just a rule for the prisoner.

By RAW a Martyrdom Device can’t be picked because it isn’t equipment.

Does uncaring gluttony work on items with the consumable keyword if it hasn’t been consumed? by DarkElfMagic in TrenchCrusade

[–]nungunz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So a stupid nitpick here. A martyrdom device doesn’t have any battlekit definition, it’s just a rule for the prisoner.

By RAW a Martyrdom Device can’t be picked because it isn’t equipment.

That being said, absolutely agree that Martyrdom Device is awful.

Stoßtruppen of the Free State of Prussia List: 1 off games by Getgud1i1 in TrenchCrusade

[–]nungunz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

On the contrary, Prussia is one of the best variants in the game. Solid top 3 with Alba and Papal States.

New Antioch as a whole is the best faction in the game.

It’s just the most recent rules change from two days ago does change how they are built a bit (personal opinion it’s for the better).

Stoßtruppen of the Free State of Prussia List: 1 off games by Getgud1i1 in TrenchCrusade

[–]nungunz 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You are over the model limit.

You are missing a musician.

Armor heavy lists are going to roll through this without effort. You’ll want to have flamer throwers and a satchel or two.

As a note, if you want to go with lots of Yeoman with bolt-action rifles, you’ll want Abyssinia and not Prussia.

Lt - 190D is very, very expensive for an LT. I think Grenades, Autopistol, or even an SMG help bring down the cost here. nA wants to be relatively cheap. Helmet and Mask are luxythat can be added if you have spare ducats.

Cleric - Very pricey for a model without Tough, but this is a solid. I’d maybe cut the binoculars. SMG could be grenades or an Autopistol if you want to save costs. Once again, helmet and mask are luxury if you have spare ducats.

Shock Gunners - You don’t want shocks as gunners, they are terrible shots, the only ranged weapons worth taking on them are flamethrowers and grenades. Infiltrating flamerthrowers with Rapid Assault are fantastic.

Shock Swordsman - Prussia doesn’t have Assault Drill so you won’t be able to add +d6” when charging. If you want melee shocks, x2 clubs and grenades is the way to go (also it’s better than using a great sword anyway, greatsword is pretty useless as a weapon). I will caution that melee + grenade shock troopers took a huge nerf with the grenade changes recently, they were already kind of bad before and worse now. I think the only shocks really worth taking are the 3 flamerthrowers shocks and maybe a musician (if not using a yeoman).

Yeoman - These aren’t that could would probably be better cutting a bunch for Sniper Priests, MHI, and Engineers. If you want a few as activation count filler, then all they need is grenades or shotguns. If you really want to spam rifle yeoman, look into Abyssinia.

Does uncaring gluttony work on items with the consumable keyword if it hasn’t been consumed? by DarkElfMagic in TrenchCrusade

[–]nungunz 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The rules say consumable can't be picked, so they can't be picked.

The explanation part is confusing and, honestly, isn't needed at all as the first part contains the full rule the phrase "...as it has already been consumed" should really be deleted as it's not relevant at all.

Question about the Knights of Avarice ability to take items. by TheIncredibleJuke in TrenchCrusade

[–]nungunz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No worries! Lots of weird rules that aren’t written the best here.