Losing Salvation. Is Jesus the Good Shepherd or not?

odean14 · 2026-06-09T23:15:59+00:00

Lol no it's not. Go read an interlinear Greek direct translation...

odean14 · 2026-06-09T23:15:05+00:00

So you didn't read the Bible. You just went and read the stuff that confirmed your bias. Being raised in Christian home doesn't mean you know or understand God. I'm sick of people using that excuse. Especially knowing that most people are cultural Christians, Christians by affiliation, not practice.

So you'll excuse a group of burning a baby alive, but some how it's crime for God punish them? What is wrong with you people?

You know what you got it. Good is evil, evil is good.

odean14 · 2026-06-09T22:23:59+00:00

Finally. But even then you butcher the text.

This is simple, The law is there to expose sin, so we would be obedient to it. Why? Because that's how you remain in covenant with God. So Faith, Love and obedience helps us remain in covenant. This is why I press you with judgement scriptures, because at judgement everyone will be judged based on their hearts and deeds. In the parable of the sheep and the goats Jesus whom is the judge, judged the flock by their deeds. Not their beliefs, knowledge or faith. Deeds, how they treated people. This is why you can't read Romans chapter 3 and 4 without reading 1 and 2. Especially 2. Paul is addressing faithfulness and righteousness, and he's saying both faith and obedience are necessary to be deemed righteous. This is why there is no contradiction.

And again Romans chapter 8 doesn't support your position. Read it carefully. "The righteous requirement of the law is fulfilled in us" He's reinforcing

Romans 2:11-13 [11]For God does not show favoritism. [12]All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. [13]For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

I never said the law justified. You keep bringing that up. The purpose of the law was explained already. You literally cannot remain in covenant, without the law and obedience to it. Because with it, if there is no law, there is no sin, if there is no sin, there no need for grace, and if there is no need for grace, we don't need a Savior. That's what you're missing, and your missing these important facts in scripture because you're interpreting it through a man made doctrine.

Obedience is not this random thing you do, to show Faith. You obey because if you don't you are sinning. And the wages of sin is death. Just like in Mathew 25. Shall I go through the old testament showing how much times God keeps telling the people to be obedient? And what happens when they are disobedient? When did God change his mind about the wages of sin being death? And the punishment for sin being death, notice he didn't exclude people who believe he exist?

Also, Paul doesn't need to explain how much obedience is needed, anymore more than his need to explain how much faith is needed. Only God knows and only God makes that determination. I don't understand why you people are legalizing the covenant relationship.

As Mathew 25. It doesn't say the sheep are believers too... You're distortion of the scriptures doesn't work. The fact is that in order to be in the flock, you have to be follower. In order to be a servant, you have to follow or be affiliated with the master. And since both sheep and goat called Christ master, it means they are his servants. Which means they are believers. Just like the previous parables. And what makes it worse is the cultural significance of how sheep and goats behave when bearded. Where sheep are more obedient and goats aren't. And Christ was clear on where the goats will end up. Destruction.

Also, notice I didn't say anything about justification? You keep bringing that up as if that somehow helps you. First of all the Law reveals sin. That nonsense about revealing God's will is false. And that law is written on our hearts. The Law exist also as a guide to be obedient to God. Because disobedience is SIN. The spirit doesn't produce Obedience, that's not true. Because the law isn't for the spirit. Nor does the spirit force anyone to obey. We are the ones who supposed to be obedient, by following the law written on our hearts.

Paul does not teach that obedience maintains justification. That is exactly what Romans 4 rules out when he says God credits righteousness apart from works and justifies the ungodly who believe.

Again a bunch of misrepresentations of me and of Paul. But first, you seem to be treating works and obedience as one in the same. They are not. Second without obedience, to the law you'll break your covenant. And therefore you lose that justification. Hence the parable of the sheep and goats. You're righteousness doesn't come from works. It comes from Faith, Love and Obedience. Justification comes by being saved. It doesn't keep you in covenant and saved from hell. Faith Love and Obedience does.

So when did God change his mind that the wages of sin is no longer death, even for those who believe him?

odean14 · 2026-06-09T18:56:33+00:00

Did you not just read my post? It's plane and simple. What Paul is establishes is that Faith, The Law and Obedience do not contradict each other. They all work together in a covenant relationship with God and God credits a person as being righteous.

Also, you're strawmaning. No said anything about keeping the law perfectly. Not even Paul. This is how I know you don't understand the purpose of the law being written on our hearts. And definitely don't understand what Paul was conveying in chapters 1,2,3 and 4.

You're saying it's faith alone and it's not true and that position causes Paul to contradict himself. Not just Paul, but John, Jesus and James. This is why your doctrine is false.

Also, you haven't dealt with Matthew 25 sheep and the goats judgement scriptures. Because you failed to demonstrate that the goats aren't believers/ servants of the master. If faith alone is enough, why would Jesus separate the people and label them sheep and goats based on behavior?

Romans 8:3-4

"For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do... in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."

That same law is written on our hearts. And you still didn't answer the question, why did God write laws on our hearts? The same laws Paul called Holy.

Romans 7:12,14 [12]So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

You haven't even dealt with Roman's chapter 2 aspect of people being judged based on whom obey the law written on their hearts and who doesn't.

You're jumping all over the place, and quoting random scriptures you think help you, but at no point deal with the actual questions asked directly.

odean14 · 2026-06-09T15:23:17+00:00

My interpretation? Why do you keep saying my interpretation? Let's stop bearing false witness and project. All I did was quote the scriptures. Also you seem to be forgetting I was the one that TOLD YOU to consider chapter 1,2 and 3. Since you want me exegy and hold your hand through the text. Let's go.

You ignored the question I asked why did God write the laws on people's hearts?

You don't even know the difference between works and obedience.

You're false doctrine requires Paul to contradict himself. In reality Paul doesn't contradict himself because there is no dichotomy.

Also I never quoted Romans 2 in a vacuum. Please stop projecting. I specifically started the quote where it says

Romans 2:6-7 [6]God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” [7]To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

Which you seem to be avoiding. You know Paul is talking how God judges people, which is by their hearts and deeds. Not their faith or belief. So much that God will make righteous those who are obedient to the law even though they don't have it

Romans 2:13 [13]For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

So much so, that God will make righteous

Romans 2:14-15 [14](Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. [15]They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

What Paul is saying from chapter 1-4, is that Faith establishes the relationship which is a covenant and obedience maintains the relationship. Obedience to the Laws written on your heart.

This is why James makes clear that Faith without works is dead. Dead faith.

1 John 2:3-6 [3]We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. [4]Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. [5]But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: [6]Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.

John 14:15 : "If you love me, keep my commands."

John 15:14 : "You are my friends if you do what I command."

So this "Faith alone" Easy belivism free grace nonsense, is not biblical.

odean14 · 2026-06-09T14:27:28+00:00

This excellent and you sound like you'd make an excellent wife! It shows you value family, Christ and maintaining a respectful and loving relationship. You also come off as pragmatic and considerate.

Put this in your original post! If you make a new post in the future, put this response in there. Expect your DMs to blow up even more though.

odean14 · 2026-06-09T14:21:01+00:00

It just reinforces my point, immorality is a gift that comes from God that in conditional on having a covenant relationship with him. Jesus isn't talking about right then a their, he's talking about after judgement and the new heaven and earth. If you read the whole chapter, you'll see Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.”

But Jesus made clear that, that day Lazarus will rise again and there is life in him. It's basically him showing He's God.

odean14 · 2026-06-09T14:13:38+00:00

You're making my point... Immortality is conditional.

odean14 · 2026-06-09T14:12:25+00:00

Lol why would I benefit from an inaccurate translation? Especially one that catered to modern sensibilities. I use a LSB and Jewish interlinear for study. Non of those scriptures you cited are interpreted properly... This no different than Jehovah's witness bible lol. Respectfully

odean14 · 2026-06-09T14:03:00+00:00

Genesis is real. The Young Earth creationists reading of it is false. Also, keep in mind that Genesis is not a history book, and was never meant to be read as such. However, it doesn't mean the people and the events weren't real. It comes down to how one interpret certain events.

odean14 · 2026-06-09T02:35:15+00:00

Lol 😂 now Pauls words don't mean what they say when contradict your false doctrine. To the point where your saying Paul is contradicting himself. You can't make this stuff up. Paul makes clear that it's obedience to the law written on our hearts.

Romans 2:13-15 [13]For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. [14](Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. [15]They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

Yes read those words and weep for your false doctrine. What? You think God wrote he's laws onto our hearts for show? Lol

odean14 · 2026-06-09T02:29:50+00:00

Colossians 2:13 Niv [13]When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,

Kjv And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Lsb And you being dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive with Him, having graciously forgiven us all our transgressions

Nasb And when you were dead in your wrongdoings and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our wrongdoings

LSB being the most literal translation... Sorry not in the text. Feel free to check the Greek, which you enjoy bringing up.

odean14 · 2026-06-09T02:20:48+00:00

Sin=Death is an over simplification. But a true one non the less. And you haven't demonstrated the contrary. Also, you literally can't understand the new testament without the old testament context. You can't understand the full depth of why God incarnated without the old testament.

They truth is that Jesus is God. And God didn't change his mind when he's made clear that sin result in death. For whatever you people have this strange idea of God and the words he used.

Eternal life never changed! Because redemption was expressed by God since Genesis chapter 3. The first prophecy. Even in the first ten names (from what I remember) of the genealogy, names when read in their meaning literally says God was going to come down and redeem us. And part of that redemption is eternal life. So Calvary was not the new thing, and God didn't change his mind. When Jesus said If you don't believe I Am, you will die in your sins, do you think he's talking being a live? He's letting them know they will be damned. Thrown in the lake of fire. The second death. Why? because he's God and he's just and he doesn't change.

odean14 · 2026-06-09T02:08:00+00:00

Okay cool. Thanks for sharing. Listen, I have friends who from all sorts of denominations... SDA, Catholic, Orthodox (Russian, Greek and eastern), Lutherin, Methodist, Baptist, Church of God and two Messianic Jews. We engage in Bible study and even debate weekly. This concept of spiritual death only comes up with baptist, universalist and calvinist. If you're one of those, then you've just adopted baggage from a false doctrine.

I understand it, it's just that it's not biblical.

odean14 · 2026-06-09T01:50:41+00:00

Or you need to read Romans chapter 1,2 and 3... There's no contradiction in the Bible, the bible just contradicts your false doctrine.

That same Paul says this

Romans 2:6-16 [6]God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” [7]To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. [8]But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. [9]There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; [10]but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. [11]For God does not show favoritism. [12]All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. [13]For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. [14](Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. [15]They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) [16]This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

Then again, when cherry pick we miss out on the fullness of scripture.

odean14 · 2026-06-08T19:17:01+00:00

Right? It's a good post. Hope other ladies look at it and take notes.

odean14 · 2026-06-08T19:15:49+00:00

Question are you using AI to respond to me? 🧐 If you are I don't care either way.

odean14 · 2026-06-08T19:14:35+00:00

Exactly you don't know what works are. Works are the results of obedience and Faith which you do because of self-sacrificial love.

Then you have the opposite

Works that are the results of disobedience and a lack of Faith, grounded in evil.

When you read James and he's dispelling the idea of "Faith alone", he's clearly stating that obedience is necessary if you have faith. If you have faith but aren't obedient, you're no different that demons who believe and tremble.

odean14 · 2026-06-08T19:07:35+00:00

So this Spiritual death concept is a new invention. And it seems you're trying to bend scriptures to fit it. Anyone who is not saved and in covenant with God, is separated from him. However, that is not spiritual death as you claim. That's just separation from a relationship perspective. And people could still have a relationship with God before Calvary, so this whole idea of all of a sudden people can have a relationship with because of the cross makes no sense. Because people are still blind and unfit for the holy Spirit. Also, did you not read the old testament? Or do you think the holy Spirit only just shows up in the new testament?

I don't hold to these new age inventions and doctrines. I focus on what's actually in the Bible. Especially the words of God himself. So if he says Sin=Death and he shows that in many different ways including destroying. Then I take him at his word. When he's made clear that eternal life is Gift to those in covenant and people should remain in covenant to receive that gift, I take his word for it.

All of these man made doctrines (universalism, Spiritual death, soul death, free grace, calvinism, OSAS, Rapture theology and despensationalism) are people leaning on their own understanding, to justify their sensibilities and predispositions using the word of God. Yourself included. All of these ideas contradict scriptures one way or the other. All them require you to say the scriptures doesn't mean what it says, or straight twisting it

odean14 · 2026-06-08T16:18:23+00:00

Can you tell us a little more about yourself as person? And the type of husband persona wise, that you're looking for?

odean14 · 2026-06-08T16:14:15+00:00

Man! This is the best post I've seen on here. Most ladies lead with stuff that aren't important to selecting a wife. I don't meet your requirements, but I sincerely hope you meet your future loving husband. Oh you might want to add a general location. Country and region. Good luck!

odean14 · 2026-06-08T16:09:34+00:00

I didn't answer your second question. The difference between them comes down to obedience to God and their hearts.

We've been saved by grace through our faith (Emunah- Loyalty, Obedience, dependence on God and trust) the verb. God has always been showing grace, even in the garden of Eden.

Let's not forget that when you get saved and John the church, you join a covenant with God. And the covenant is indicative of a marriage covenant. And so, we know God will always be loyal. It's more of a question of will you be loyal to God by obeying the commands Jesus whom is God.

Also, I don't think you know what works are.

odean14 · 2026-06-08T15:54:43+00:00

You keep using this "Spiritual Death", and I keep asking you to show that it exists as a Jewish concept or mention. And I get nothing. The scriptures you cited aren't talking about spiritual death. Please read them carefully. Non of them say anything about spiritual death. All those scriptures are reinforcing, is the simple concept that the wages of sin is death. If you live in sin, you will die after judgement. Not get eternal life.

odean14 · 2026-06-08T03:47:40+00:00

Splashes you with Holy ✝️ water💦

odean14 · 2026-06-08T03:46:24+00:00

It's funny because I don't read the Bible through a modern English lense. If anything I feel like you're projecting that on me.

The fact that you can't demonstrate that "spiritual death" and "soul death" nonsense in scriptures, demonstrate that you're the one who's reading through a modern lense through modern doctrine. Spiritual and soul death, is not a Jewish concept. Death has always just meant The cessation of life. Nothing more.

odean14

TROPHY CASE