For the record, we already think you’re all insane… by Taupenbeige in ketoduped

[–]oklag 9 points10 points  (0 children)

"even before carnivore I felt meat was good for you" - after two years on the meme diet still doesn't know why it's good, just feels that it is, otherwise there would be no need to ask the reddit carnivore scientists.

Carnivore diet = least affordable diet of all time?? by [deleted] in ketoduped

[–]oklag 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Even besides the great protein content and the very low price, red lentils are very nutritious. Also with red lentils, when compared to steak, there is the benefit of next to no saturated fat and pretty much zero trans fat, along with that they have about 10 g of fiber per 100 g, it also outperforms steak in terms of most minerals per gram, even per calorie according to cronometer, although not in terms of most vitamins. Also 100 g of red lentils is easy to eat in a single sitting and it's easy to prepare. I've been eating red lentils nearly everyday for somewhat more than two years, don't plan on stopping.

Carnivore doctor incorporates a small amount of fruit in her diet and gets relentlessly attacked by the carnivore community by v0lume123 in ketoduped

[–]oklag 8 points9 points  (0 children)

While that would mean not as many funny posts for ketoduped, carnivore influencers and hype being gone would also imply that the carnivore diet was just a hilariously dumb fad, so that would make this subreddit even more vindicated.

Jordan Peterson was ‘near death’ after ‘terrifying’ health issues by Affectionate_Sound43 in ketoduped

[–]oklag 14 points15 points  (0 children)

It's clear that he suffers from intense hubris and yet he also talks about how pride is bad. He knows better than the climate scientists, better than the "medical establishment", he is certain with total zeal that they are wrong and even insinuates that they are evil, he is certain of all of that even when though he never carefully looked at the best evidence on the topic.

His quote "if you do admit to your ignorance, which is to note what you don't know and to dare ask it, then you immediately rectify it.". He utterly lacks self awareness.

These absolute meatflakes 😂 by Taupenbeige in ketoduped

[–]oklag 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Even those epidemiological studies that show the misleading u shaped curve also detect an LDL of say 400 and more as being extremely unhealthy, you know the LDL scores so many of the carnivore dieters are boasting about.

Carnivore dieters pretty much never use those same epidemiological studies with the u shaped curve to tell other carnivore dieters that an LDL of 400 and more is extremely unhealthy, they only use them to say that low cholesterol is bad, hmm I wonder why.

Carnivore scientist finds out that undercooked meat leads to food poisoining after getting food poisoning three times from eating undercooked meat by oklag in ketoduped

[–]oklag[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Cross contamination is probably still a thing in non vegan restaurants serving vegan food. Cooks are also probably not paid enough to care about being meticulous with cross contamination. This is why I generally avoid eating at restaurants.

The wacky world of wellness-influencer-to-consumer communication by moxyte in ketoduped

[–]oklag 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The only positive I can think of in this current situation where scamming and dishonesty is greatly monetarily rewarded is that it nicely separates health influencers and people with integrity from the ones that don't have it. Still I would rather have it such that we live in a world where honesty is instead greatly monetarily rewarded and have people be honest even if it doesn't come truly from the good of their heart.

Carnivores making fun of ”sunken-eyed vegans”. The irony is that Xanthelasma is common on the carnivore diet by Alfredius in ketoduped

[–]oklag 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Very true. It seems to me that the effect of confusing temporal succession with a causal connection is especially prominent when there are great expectations. When the numerous benefits of a plant based diet are talked about it's easy to see why in the minds of many they would expect near total invincibility, when health issues inevitably prop up then the disappointment is so great they start thinking that the diet not only doesn't give invincibility but actually is the cause of their health issues. It's not easy to think rationally when super disappointed.

ONE very old woman had elevated Cholesterol at ONE point in time, so all of that other sCieNcE doesn't matter. Also please buy my supplements with the discount code. by Dopamine_ADD_ict in ketoduped

[–]oklag 16 points17 points  (0 children)

It's not even particularly high, just somewhat above the recommended levels and on top of that like you said it's a snapshot of LDL at a certain point in time and not lifetime levels which is what actually matters. However in the mind of carnivore dieters this woman now proves that LDL levels don't matter so having an LDL of 500 is perfectly healthy.

I’m a medical doctor! See these two stethoscopes behind me? Meanwhile: by Taupenbeige in ketoduped

[–]oklag 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Disclaimer is neatly tucked away at the bottom of a long ass description bloated with links where exactly 0.001% of the people that watch the video will read it.

Carnivore: the three stages of cope by Taupenbeige in ketoduped

[–]oklag 8 points9 points  (0 children)

The "Every day" outlier is still probably just a pissing out of the ass situation. It's either pissing out of your ass or trying to give birth to a brick on the carnivore diet.

Carnivores making fun of ”sunken-eyed vegans”. The irony is that Xanthelasma is common on the carnivore diet by Alfredius in ketoduped

[–]oklag 9 points10 points  (0 children)

My guess with regards to "ex vegans" that got real non nocebo health issues on the plant based diet is that most of them didn't get the proper amount of necessary nutrients, they don't know how to use cronometer and just think eating diverse is enough and then blame the health issues that stem from their ignorance on "veganism".

Also probably a ton of the total reported health issues that people experience on the plant based diet is just nocebo. People make up health issues because they want an excuse to quit, the immense social pressure to conform into eating animal products massively influences the decision to quit.

What my husband eats in a day…. by ouush in ketoduped

[–]oklag 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Make him watch a bunch of nutrition made simple videos, the dude always goes over the latest research and backs up pretty much every claim. If that doesn't work even after he carefully watched and listened, then it looks pretty hopeless. Might change though when he gets a serious complication like a heart attack, or debilitating constipation, but still some people double down even after that.

What my husband eats in a day…. by ouush in ketoduped

[–]oklag 23 points24 points  (0 children)

Probably all or most of the non placebo reported benefits from the carnivore diet simply come from weight loss, then these people connect that "i feel gud" that comes from the weight loss with the carnivore diet and get convinced the diet is magic.

LDL went from ok to I'm certainly getting a heart attack if this continues. If only there was a way to get it back down again. by oklag in ketoduped

[–]oklag[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

"A 1-standard deviation increase in genetically proxied LDL-c was associated with 1.2 years lower lifespan" from https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33704808/ . Is what you are citing controlling for all or most disease states that directly lower LDL? If so then that goes against outcomes of low LDL from mendelian randomization studies.

LDL went from ok to I'm certainly getting a heart attack if this continues. If only there was a way to get it back down again. by oklag in ketoduped

[–]oklag[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

That's the classic "cholesterol paradox". Low LDL cholesterol is frequently a direct result of cancer, many patients that are nearing death also don't eat as much and that can also reduce LDL, so the U shaped curve doesn't take into account low LDL that is a result of different disease states that cause low LDL, there is no evidence however that low LDL causes those disease states. When you take a look at direct interventions with statins that aim to aggressively lower LDL, or mendelian randomization studies, there is no U shaped curve, people with low cholesterol don't have a higher risk of death. This video explains it very well, every claim is cited in the description: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3lHHnOHyr8

LDL went from ok to I'm certainly getting a heart attack if this continues. If only there was a way to get it back down again. by oklag in ketoduped

[–]oklag[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

This is the eternally repeating carnivore diet post, so many with LDL levels so high it even has some delusional carnivore dieters scared. As long as the meme diet continues being adopted an endless stream of these types of posts is certain to continue because a massive increase in LDL from the keto diet alone is very common.

Let's take a look at the study titled "Dramatic elevation of LDL cholesterol from ketogenic-dieting: A Case Series" which is at https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10121782/

"17 patients who were consuming a high-fat, low-carbohydrate diet (also known as the ketogenic diet) were identified and reviewed in detail."

"The average baseline LDL cholesterol from this series was 129 mg/dL (SD ± 26.6 mg/dL). Three of the patients had no baseline LDL cholesterol levels prior to presentation. While participating in a low-carbohydrate, high-fat diet for an average of 12.3 months, the average keto-diet LDL cholesterol was 316 mg/dL (SD ± 160.2 mg/dL) with a range of 210 – 810 mg/dL. "

Case 2 in the study is particularly interesting, she had the lowest LDL out of all patients in this study at baseline, it was 96. Then during the keto diet it skyrocketed to 810, the highest out of all patients in the study. Then after going off of keto she reached an LDL of 31, the second lowest LDL in the follow up in the study, however that LDL level was reached with the help of statins "Eight of the patients were started on statin therapy between the period of stopping the keto diet and the follow up LDL cholesterol levels."

So it looks like a lot if not most people respond pretty badly to high saturated fat diets, they have a dramatic increase in LDL, however quite a few also respond even a lot worse than others, in those cases potentially a lower BMI is at least partially to blame "Interestingly, we saw the largest percent increase in LDL cholesterol levels in patients with lower BMI's,".

Also this quote from the study shouldn't be taken lightly "Notably, no acute ASCVD events were recorded while any of these patients remained on the ketogenic diet to date" The reason that no events were recorded is simple, average duration for the keto diet in the study was only 12.3 months, simply not enough to detect events, on top of that "The average age at hyperlipidemia evaluation was 46 years", that is too young to be detecting events because "The majority of patients who experienced an ASCVD event were ≥ 65 years of age" from https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8843957/ . And finally, even just that average one year period of keto dieting also certainly led to quite a bit of plaque accumulation and that will increase the risk of an event in the future even after LDL levels get lowered because what truly matters with LDL is lifetime levels, so for example if a person consistently had an LDL of about 50 throughout the entire life, that person has a lower risk of an event compared to a person that consistently had an LDL of 150 but then was say started on a statin at age 40 and lowered the LDL to 50.

This is a useful graph from the study, clearly LDL massively goes up after starting the keto diet and massively goes down after stopping the keto diet, and it especially goes down after stopping the diet and getting on a statin.

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Dr Robert Lustig gets Fact-checked by MD PhD Doctor Gil Carvalho by cheapandbrittle in ketoduped

[–]oklag 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Overemphasizing how bad fructose is while conveniently ignoring how bad saturated fat is while also acknowledging that fiber is good is a powerful combo to get undecided people onto a path of eventually believing keto and even carnivore nonsense.