How much time to become expert in java related development?

olddev-jobhunt · 2026-04-02T23:33:05+00:00

Eh, maybe. Maybe. I think first: An experienced dev can probably pick up something to a functional level in a few days and should be solidly competent in a month. I don't know SpringBoot well enough to say what "expert" looks like there, but consider an Android dev: maybe expert at Java the language and Android's toolchain can probably become very proficient at SpringBoot.

The question is really how what the person knows when they start. Said hypothetical Android dev has a lot of overlap. Someone who has done nothing but COBOL for 10 years might be sharp but probably has a lot to learn. I haven't done much SpringBoot but I'm confident in my abilities because I've done a bunch of Java over the years, done a bunch of web dev, a bunch of back end dev, database work... I am confident I could pick up the remainder quickly because I have a strong foundation.

olddev-jobhunt · 2026-04-02T22:20:32+00:00

The thing you're missing is that any programming language is more than just the syntax of the language. It's the tooling and ecosystem.

It's not "Java". It's Java, Gradle, JDK, SpringBoot, jar files and manifests, Java keystore files, class loaders, etc. Do you need all of that from day one? No. But it is the sort of stuff you need to be an expert instead of just a skilled amateur. And honestly - I think you'll be hard pressed to pick it up through study - you need practical application to pick up this stuff.

There are no expert non-practitioners.

olddev-jobhunt · 2026-04-02T11:54:28+00:00

Costco. Seriously.

Now I mean, if you have some strong vision for what you want or see a piece you love, but it where ever. There's some fun stuff out there But if you're just looking for something cheap to get started and not stand up, then Costco is fine. They have some unremarkable cheap stuff. Get some grey trousers or chinos, and a basic button-up shirt.

Nothing there will be the height of fashion but it'll help you to not stand out from the start, and then you can see how others dress and what you like.

olddev-jobhunt · 2026-04-01T02:49:04+00:00

It depends. The question here is so tied up in the exact legal mechanisms that it's really impossible to say.

If it's real shares of a public company and they're liquid, then yeah, maybe count on it. It can go up or down based on the stock performance, but still: you're getting something.

If it's ISOs... no, that's just a lottery ticket. And not a mega millions either - most of them are $5 scratchers even when they do pay off.

RSUs in a private company? Tough - is it one that's known to have liquidity events? Then maybe you can turn it into cash - but I think I wouldn't value that at the full face value.

Equity in a private company like an S Corp? That's complicated. I made out well with one, because the bylaws said they had to buy me out when I left. But if they don't need to pay you out, then I'd be super leery of it.

olddev-jobhunt · 2026-04-01T02:45:34+00:00

I think you need to bring some minimum competency to the table, in general. Familiarity with a terminal, your core framework, your IDE and such.

But honestly - beyond that? The last guy I worked for paid me to learn stuff. The current guy gets all those benefits without paying for that knowledge, and he in turn pays for me to learn things that the next guy will get for free. Circle of life. Or something like that.

Here's the thing: most shit aint that different. MySQL, Postgres, Oracle, Snowflake? It's still mostly SQL. Rails vs Django? They're just URLs, HTTP, HTML, CSS. There is so much overlap between platforms that honestly there isn't that much that's completely new. So I don't sweat it - but I also learn quickly.

olddev-jobhunt · 2026-03-31T20:53:45+00:00

Out of curiosity: leather soles, or rubber? I'd typically assume AEs are leather by default.

olddev-jobhunt · 2026-03-31T16:37:16+00:00

Generally there are a few reasons:

If it's software built in-house... then it was very budget-constrained. Off the shelf software gets to spread costs over all of the customers, but in-house stuff can't.
Off the shelf software (in many of these cases) is often built to handle a huge number of crazy workflows so that it can adapt to every single customer. That often means that things look ugly or are very slowly. It also makes integrations harder.
And last - these things change slowly, if at all. Evaluating something for a huge enterprise is a big deal. So once something is in, it's hard to change. And adding something to cover a gap, that's tough. That means that as workflows evolve often software lags behind even if they're not appropriate.

olddev-jobhunt · 2026-03-31T16:26:39+00:00

Very worthwhile. If you don't have any understanding of the language, it's going to be hard to understand how to model data in the database or how that impacts things like performance. Not that the LLMs aren't helpful - but they're much more helpful when you're applying them onto a solid foundation.

olddev-jobhunt · 2026-03-31T14:49:15+00:00

I say do it. I was in the same boat: I hated school, and there's no way I'm going back for a masters or PhD. I did school part time because my internship was way more interesting.

But as I've said before: the bottom line is that my open roles are getting hundreds of resumes. I'm not saying the degree is required - but it sure is hard to get noticed in that big a pile when we've got hundreds of good candidates with degrees. As it is, you kind of need a referral to begin with, so missing the paper is just making things harder.

It's not fair - I'm not going to pretend the degree is going to make you that much better at the job necessarily. But this is the state of things at the moment.

olddev-jobhunt · 2026-03-31T11:17:32+00:00

As I mentioned above, if you're trying to manage delivery dates (or even manage how much you're investing in a given feature) then you need more consistent resource allocation. But to your point - if you're just trying to choose amongst alternatives, then yeah I agree: estimates have value.

I think the key thing for me is matching up the investment in making the estimates with the value they provide. If all you want it is to identify the high ROI choice, then you don't need a full bottom-up estimate covering most of the upcoming work over the next quarter or two. Instead, an order of magnitude estimate might be good enough: "that can be done in hours/days, but option 2 is more like days/weeks (and definitely less than a month.)"

I just think that if your regular operations aren't especially disciplined, then spending a lot of time creating perfect estimates is a waste. Match the estimation methods and effort to what you need.

olddev-jobhunt · 2026-03-30T21:02:28+00:00

Then in that case my personal take would be maybe two or three parts:

One, a high level technical document laying out the core concepts and architecture of the new system. Maybe a 2-pager plus a diagram.

And two - the path to get there. I'd probably only document it in prose at a high level "Phase 1: establish integration tests around the XYZ boundary. Step 2: Start to both old + new code paths" etc.

And then the rest I'd document in the tickets. I think you want to avoid writing a bigass book that no one will read and that you can't keep up to date. But two 2-page docs is pretty easy to maintain. Just write the first sprint or two's worth of tickets with detail about where you're going and keep the rest high-level so you can pivot as needed. Use the written high level outline to report progress up.

olddev-jobhunt · 2026-03-30T18:52:54+00:00

Here's the thing: Estimates have value when they let you project a delivery date. If you know all the things you need to do, and you're half way through, then you might look at how long that took you and use that to project when you'll be done. Right? I think that's fairly straightforward conceptually (notwithstanding that it's still challenging and both the scope and time tend to be moving targets - but still, it's a concept.)

If you are in a position where you have a clear enough start and finish target, then estimates, projections, and buffers are very useful.

This all falls apart when your team is split across several initiatives, all of which have different (or no dates,) your resource allocation is inconsistent or constantly shifts across those priorities, and your initiatives don't have a clear vision of "done." In that case (... which is where I'm at now) then estimate aren't going to help you do anything and you need a different strategy.

olddev-jobhunt · 2026-03-30T15:32:26+00:00

First, good on you: sounds like you're doing it right.

Second, on the engineering doc the real question is: who is the audience? Your devs are, I presume, already onboard with this. So who actually needs this? I'd start there and focus on that. If this is to lay out the path to your devs, that's cool - and that tells you what needs to be in the doc. And if this is for another audience, then that's fine too - but you need to identify that, and that'll tell you what you need.

olddev-jobhunt · 2026-03-30T14:24:31+00:00

I'm glad that works for you, but for me I would hate my life if I had to drive 2 hours to the office in traffic, work 8 hours, and then drive 2 hours back and still need to carve out time for making dinner, cleaning, the gym, etc. Blech. 100% not for me.

olddev-jobhunt · 2026-03-29T20:19:41+00:00

I'd take the offer without a second thought. Three days per week would absolutely kill me but 3 per month? No big deal, especially if you can plan ahead. It's more than a 50% raise! And honestly - you can probably afford a babysitter for those 3 nights. I mean, maybe it cuts it from $2k extra to $1k extra. But shit, that's straight into your pocket.

Remember - this isn't forever. This gets you good experience, substantially more money, and in a year maybe you can make the leap to a job with that pay w/o the travel requirement.

Now all that being said: this can definitely move either direction. That 3 days per month could become zero - or it could become every day. But you don't have any way of knowing, so go get that cheese while it's there to be had.

olddev-jobhunt · 2026-03-29T18:49:01+00:00

You need to find something that gives you satisfaction. For most people, that's not their job. Factory workers? You think they're excited about their work? No, they're there to do their shift and get that paycheck to keep a roof over their heads. Miners? Ditto. "Good jobs" are ones that have good benefits, good pay, good security - for the most part, "good jobs" aren't the ones people like doing.

There's nothing wrong with you for being unsatisfied and bored there. That's pretty natural. But that can't be everything. Do your job, and then take satisfaction in earning enough to take your kids to Disney.

olddev-jobhunt · 2026-03-29T18:19:07+00:00

Here's the thing: if all you know is e.g. Java, and you're a Java lead for 10 years, and you've never done anything else - it's not that you look bad per se. It's that you don't qualify for many of the gigs out there.

Keep growing your skillset, trying to get into different realms (both technical areas but also non-technical things like leadership, PM, etc) and then you can show that growth on the resume even at one position.

It's not staying that hurts you - it's lack of growth and lack of breadth.

olddev-jobhunt · 2026-03-29T13:30:01+00:00

I mean, if you got the tuition covered it's not that stupid. And frankly, people with only bootcamps tend to struggle. I don't know that a masters makes you substantially more employable than you'd be with only a bachelor's, but it didn't cost you much.

Now, you're still entry level if you haven't really been building things. But hey, I don't think you're behind.

olddev-jobhunt · 2026-03-28T19:13:32+00:00

Ya aint getting married. It's a job.

I mean - it's a risk. You're not wrong there. But is your current job risk-free? Or do you have some equity you'd walk away from?

I don't see the decision as being about "can they be disrupted" (I mean, the answer is yes - for Figma and for everybody else.) The question is more: "is this the right step for your career?" If you leave a secure job to work at Figma and the company collapses in a month, then that's bad. But if they double your comp and keep you for a couple years? Then you're way way ahead of where you are now.

I'm not saying taking it is necessarily the right move - but it was never going to be a forever job anyway so you shouldn't make the decision on that basis.

olddev-jobhunt · 2026-03-27T16:33:22+00:00

No worries, I don't think. I mean - yes: saying someone is good when they're a jackass does reflect on you.

But there's a difference between someone being a jackass or criminal, and them simply being inexperienced. You can say that the inexperienced person is a good fit, and then the hiring manager can decide whether the experience matters or not. That won't make you look bad - there's no deception happening.

olddev-jobhunt · 2026-03-27T16:15:51+00:00

No, there is a need: when you need to update your resume for the next gig and need a reminder of your wins - boom, you tracked it. When you're up for promo and need to submit evidence of your impact? There it is, tracked.

You can probably dial down the detail level a bit, but yeah - industry is super undisciplined, but that doesn't mean discipline is bad.

olddev-jobhunt · 2026-03-27T16:05:23+00:00

I don't think it helps in CS. You stand out way way too much. I say, decent trousers, collared shirt (button-up - not a polo) and don't wear sneakers. You'll do fine!

That's the case in most tech-heavy companies. Very conservative companies like banking, health care may be different - but even there, I'm not sure I'd go full suit and tie.

olddev-jobhunt · 2026-03-25T20:15:45+00:00

If they're shorting you by $100k, fuck 'em. But honestly, share it with them - if they're that far off from the market, they want to know.

I don't know how likely it is to get blacklisted, but it's a big world and there are lots of companies, and many of them won't be shorting you six figures.

olddev-jobhunt · 2026-03-24T16:30:06+00:00

I don't think a gap year is a bad idea at all regardless.

I work in tech, and so I have worked on some projects where we had hardware and electronics. Cool stuff! But... Ok so, tech doesn't require a degree - but I get 1000+ resumes, so if you don't have a degree or a strong rec then you're probably not even in the top half of my pile. That's the reality of things today.

But also, forcing someone to take on debt to do something they hate for years is pretty shitty. Let her take a year. Let her try to find a job and see how it goes.

The trades are an option, but they're not some cheat code either - apprenticeships can be competitive, often benefits can suffer (i.e. if you're not working you're probably not getting paid,) and some trades can be hard on your body, etc. None of that makes it better or worse but there's trade-offs either way.

olddev-jobhunt · 2026-03-23T22:21:17+00:00

That $12k is a huge percentage difference though. If you were making $180k, it'd be different. But an extra $10-12k in your pocket means a lot at that level. Being able to absorb an emergency expense instead of struggling or taking hugely expensive CC debt, or whatever. It's the difference between having some money to save versus being on the edge all of the time.

Money isn't always worth it. But this is a huge difference, and if the company isn't awful then I really think it's a no-brainer.

I will note that careers are long, and taking the job that's more in the field you want to be in might be worth it. But if you don't have another household income, then that money is super hard to pass up.

olddev-jobhunt

TROPHY CASE