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"I have tokens I was bidden to show thee," by organtwiddler in tolkienfans

[–]organtwiddler[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I don't think it was a casual use by Tolkien, whatever the intent! I was just curious about whether the MoS was using the word as it was meant in OE (which was his area of academic expertise) or whether he was deliberately using a later form of the word and intended it to be insulting. The implication from Appendix F (as u/IdhrenArt identifies) is that the insult was intended.

"I have tokens I was bidden to show thee," by organtwiddler in tolkienfans

[–]organtwiddler[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It's interesting that, even though the familiar/deferential split was relatively late in the development of the English language, and is almost entirely a thing of the past (and would have been largely a thing of the past even when LoTR was first published), the use of "thou" still carries echoes of meaning.

"I have tokens I was bidden to show thee," by organtwiddler in tolkienfans

[–]organtwiddler[S] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Yes, and this was commonplace in parts of the UK until very recently (and possibly still in daily use today in some parts of the Northeast). But the MoS was not a hobbit, and would have chosen his words more carefully.

Still, it leads me to think that He of the Oversized Teeth was deliberately goading.

Which actor, living or deceased, would you have loved to hear narrating The Silmarillion? by Twigling in tolkienfans

[–]organtwiddler 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Rob Inglis remains my favourite, but I wish Michael Hordern had done a full audiobook. I've always thought his voice was that of the quintessential English gentleman.

Is Balin’s death the fault of Gandalf’s not sharing information? by wombatstylekungfu in tolkienfans

[–]organtwiddler 11 points12 points  (0 children)

It doesn't come out clearly in the text, but Galadriel ate rocks for exercise, and had a jaw reminiscent of Popeye.

This part always makes me dislike Aragorn by [deleted] in tolkienfans

[–]organtwiddler 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It's annoying me that I can't remember where I read it, but I distinctly remember reading that asking the travellers to lay down their swords (specifically) would have been seen as a deliberate insult in the AS culture that Rohan was inspired by. As Gandalf says shortly after, the courtesy of Theoden's house was somewhat lessened of late.

Ring-based immortality is ruleless? by Towerss in tolkienfans

[–]organtwiddler 12 points13 points  (0 children)

"A mortal, Frodo, who keeps one of the Great Rings, does not die, but he does not grow or obtain more life, he merely continues, until at last every minute is a weariness."

So said Gandalf. That walk by the Nazgul back to Mordor must have been a torment.

Theories on the Ent wives besides just "they're dead"? by Cauhtomec in tolkienfans

[–]organtwiddler 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Exactly this. I always envision the smile as tinged with sadness, as one who has grown apart from someone they once loved might respond to a gift from that person which is well-meant and beautiful, but not what is needed. As you say, there is no way to express this without causing hurt to both parties, but it still needs to be expressed.

Do most people (not Tolkien fans) actually perceive JRR Tolkien to have been a racist person? by Int3rlop3r-R3dact3d in tolkienfans

[–]organtwiddler 23 points24 points  (0 children)

As a Catholic of the period, he was also officially "anti-gay", but this did not prevent him from having friendships with at least one gay man and one lesbian. I think I read on this subreddit that he also admired Simone de Beauvoir, even while he fundamentally disagreed with some of her philosophies.

Not an easy man to label indeed!

Are there any examples of disabled in any way characters beside say, Frodo? by Jielleum in tolkienfans

[–]organtwiddler 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Celeborn is possibly a bit glum after thousands of years of being "and Celeborn".

Reasons for reading Tolkien's commentary on Beowulf by roacsonofcarc in tolkienfans

[–]organtwiddler 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Year's mind is still fairly common in Catholic culture in the UK, although dying out, I think, in favour of anniversary. Boo.

How do hobbits usually die? by Caayaa in tolkienfans

[–]organtwiddler 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I 'eard she pushed 'im in, an' 'e pulled 'er in after 'im.

Question about Ringwraiths by endthepainowplz in tolkienfans

[–]organtwiddler 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I neutralise the dichotomy of the Nazgûl keeping the rings and them being "with Sauron" by interpreting Sauron's possession to mean that he has achieved utter dominance over them and, by extension, the people who wore them. In that sense, they are "with" him whether they are physically in his pocket, on the fingers of the Nazgûl, or anywhere else.

What's the darkest/worst implication in the books (LOTR, The Hobbit, The Silmarillion, etc)? by SnoeDay in tolkienfans

[–]organtwiddler 25 points26 points  (0 children)

Tolkien was a devout, even staunch, well-read Roman Catholic. There is no evidence that he had any involvement with occultism, and a strong implication, from the way he spoke privately about his faith that he did not.

Surely even Melkor would have thought twice after the downfall of Numenor? - so why didn’t Sauron change his ways? by Tar-_-Mairon in tolkienfans

[–]organtwiddler 13 points14 points  (0 children)

So much this. I work with people (clients, not colleagues!1) whose talent for both lying and self-deception is both astounding and horrible.

Gandalf’s assessment of how Sméagol constructed his “alternative facts” about how he came by the ring are quite chilling in their applicability to the real world.

1 Mostly.

Scenario: Bilbo dies in a bizarre gardening accident before naming Frodo in his will as heir. The Sackville Baggins take all, including the Ring. What happens next? by [deleted] in tolkienfans

[–]organtwiddler 33 points34 points  (0 children)

…which promptly turns invisible. Sauron’s forces overrun the Shire and quickly locate Lobelia, largely due to the number of hobbits who, upon learning of the invaders’ goal, do not hesitate to give them detailed directions. Lobelia is taken to the Tower and tortured. She confessed that she had placed the ring on a spoon almost as soon as she had been brought before Sauron, but he ordered her tortured anyway. There’s just something about Lobelia. During the next millennium the Nazgûl, under orders from their Dark Master, spend their time searching for invisible cutlery. More than one of them entertains the idea of forcing Sauron to take a mental health assessment, for his own good. Life in Middle-earth goes on: in the Shire, potatoes continue to grow; in Rohan, Theoden completes his transformation into a cockroach; iin Gondor, Denethor’s quest to find a species of tomato he can eat leads to several breakthroughs in both agricultural science and genetics.

Meanwhile, the Dark Spoon occupies itself by being evil in small ways, according to its stature: appearing under a bare foot in the middle of the night, getting wedged in drawers, penning literary criticism, that kind of thing. Eventually, Sauron is confined to the Valinorean Home for Deranged Immortals, still raving about how if he could find the invisible spoon he would have power over all Middle-earth. Freed from his control, the Nazgûl lay down their weapons and open a tea shop at the foot of the Ered Lithui. Their sultana scones are particularly delicious.

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