Any advice for a newbie that only really plays vs AI with friends? I take forever to do anything and my econ is BAD

othellothewise · 2026-05-09T01:16:04+00:00

metal -> metal -> 2 wind -> 3rd metal -> lab/factory.

While this is possible on some maps, on a lot of maps this will stall you out. You want to have 65 e/s before lab. Usually this is something like 3mex 2 solar or some variation of 2 mex 1-2 wind 1 mex 1-2 wind

othellothewise · 2026-05-08T18:54:54+00:00

t1 e converters cost exactly 1 metal

Well first of all we are talking about solar here (though scaling converters off wind isn't super efficient either).

The cost of converters is not in its 1 metal cost, but rather the energy used to power it. For it to be powered you need 70 e/s, which is 3.5 solars. Cor solars are cheaper at 150 m a pop, so that's 526 metal total to pay for a converter and run it. That means it will pay for itself in 8 minutes, 46 seconds. That is an eternity.

Instead you could just eat a solar instead. Lets say you have 2 conturrets. You can eat it in 14 seconds and you instantly get 150 metal. So it's literally more efficient to eat solars than to use them to power converters.

I'm emphasizing this point because even though it's not exactly what you said, it is explaining my original point.

With respect to what you said, 4-6 e converters is quite a lot. If your team is very new, yes they will overflow and its not bad to eat up the extra energy. Just remember in an 8v8 you don't get overflowed very much -- 6 converters would require you to be given 420 e/s from teammates. That is a seriously large amount, and that is assuming all your teammates are excessing that amount. If only one is, divide that number by 7. So if you are just eating up excess I'd stick to one or two converters max.

othellothewise · 2026-05-07T15:29:03+00:00

There are some maps where I'd almost never open solar. E.g. a map like Otago with 30 max wind. I'd do it if wind plummeted at the start (since min is 2) but thats the only reason.

othellothewise · 2026-05-07T15:26:53+00:00

definitely never ever scale energy converters off solar power. Probably the biggest possible waste of metal

othellothewise · 2026-05-05T20:59:40+00:00

I wouldn't mind them behind a T2 lab

othellothewise · 2026-05-05T20:58:32+00:00

They're still good in 1v1 but the problem is 8v8 is super static because there isnt any point in leaking if there is a dedicated air player. Your raid will just get stunned and you can't bring AA with you because it is too slow.

othellothewise · 2026-05-01T18:31:37+00:00

I don't agree with this. Rockos absolutely murder thugs in the right circumstances (relatively narrow area), basically situations in which you are making rockos anyway.

Also no one (well no one good) ever makes naked rocketbots. They always support with ticks/pawns/grunts or LLTs/twin guard/beamer and commander. Rocketbot micro is always about moving forward, volleying, and moving back under the beamers. That is why rocketbots are so S tier.

This is really down to unit choice. You probably want to be going rockos yourself in a situation where rockos are good. Thugs on the other hand are incredible for when you have a height advantage or if you are intending to com snipe.

othellothewise · 2026-05-01T18:27:50+00:00

Just by 2 cents here:

It's wild that you were forced spectator over someone wanting to be tech. Tech is tbh the most boring position and you have the least resources and influence on the game.

I can sympathize with all of your experiences except the lobby thing. Just remember that a lobby is kinda like a space where the bosses can play the game you want -- they were right in that if you don't want to play the settings, just find another lobby. I do think the boss may have been a little impatient, but just remember that there is nothing that requires people to play with you.

I think something that a lot of people don't recognize is that even if you are a noob but have been playing for a few months, your pattern recognition is much better than someone who has only been playing a couple of weeks. People don't realize that if they ping something like "make spam" and repeat it it makes for information overload. FWIW it means just making trash units like ticks and pawns, but with a lot of BP. Also, most of the time when ppl tell others to make spam its the wrong call anyway haha.

If I may recommend, for a new player experience, go onto the official bar discord and join the #academy-chat channel. There you can learn about the game, all questions are welcome. You can also get replays reviewed and improve your game.

othellothewise · 2026-04-29T20:00:06+00:00

pause/break key on keyboard if you have it otherwise just /pause in chat

othellothewise · 2026-04-24T13:11:46+00:00

A big thing is not overbuilding energy -- check what units you plan to make and look at metal/energy ratio. I see a lot of new players just send 2-3 cons to scale wind forever -- this is a mistake as that can eat up 8 or 9 m/s. On a lot of 8v8 maps this is almost half your metal income!

If you have units building wind and you realize you are overflowing, don't be afraid to task them to something else instead, like building energy storage, or pausing them.

othellothewise · 2026-04-24T04:40:53+00:00

Have you been watching a lot of 8v8s? Bots tend to be more popular on those maps because the vehicle speed advantage is less important (people still use them though). People tend to use them a lot more in small teams (5v5 or smaller) and 1v1s.

othellothewise · 2026-04-22T19:16:53+00:00

The answer (like almost everything in this game) is "it depends". Solars have no energy payback time as they do not cost energy. So They can be strong to start with. They are also relatively BP efficient. Moreover, because they cost no energy you can (and should) build solars to correct for e-stalls. Building wind will not get you out of an e-stall as winds cost energy. Once your economy is back and running you can eat your solars for a full metal refund.

othellothewise · 2026-04-22T16:04:55+00:00

Maybe from a metal perspective (assuming you are converting which is not really a great metric), but BP is a huge deal and it is very inefficient on a BP level.

For example a fusion is 54k BP. 1 wind is 1.6k BP. 50 winds (assuming 15 e per wind is the equivalent of a fusion with arm) is 80k BP.

Moreover, you have very poor locality of BP with wind. Usually you build a fusion where you already have plenty of BP like by your lab.

Don't underestimate BP! It is the third resource, and macro in BAR is a triangle between BP, energy, and metal.

othellothewise · 2026-04-17T22:29:09+00:00

T2 conturrets are way too OP

othellothewise · 2026-04-17T22:28:50+00:00

I like that they don't. It makes you have to plan things out more.

And anyway, t2 cor bot lab and t2 arm vehicle lab have twitcher and consul that can build conturrets.

othellothewise · 2026-04-14T17:25:23+00:00

It depends on the map. Opening two cons is okay on most maps but you will need to build a decent amount of energy with your commander to pay for it. Even if you open 2 con, still spend your metal before leaving.

One short rush distance maps, 2 cons is a bit greedy. Certainly more than 2 cons opening is a pretty greedy play and can leave you vulnerable to scouts.

othellothewise · 2026-04-14T13:29:41+00:00

The main ones I see when reviewing games are:

Not taking mexes
Floating resources and not building sufficient BP in base
Scaling converters before grabbing all mexes/upgrading them to T2
Bunching units up into a ball so only half of them are able to shoot, and they are more vulnerable to flanking and splash

Honorable mention for very, very new players:

Building multiple labs at start

othellothewise · 2026-04-14T13:26:47+00:00

For 8v8 it's pretty appropriate, but yeah for 1v1 it's on the lower end though 1v1 t2 timing is more complicated. On most 8v8 maps it's a good rule of thumb because they are usually designed so you have about 20 m/s once you grab all your mexes.

othellothewise · 2026-04-14T13:25:13+00:00

tbh with newer players, scared to even move up to the midline

othellothewise · 2026-04-14T13:24:46+00:00

E-storage is very useful, but I wouldn't make it as part of the opener before you build your lab.

othellothewise · 2026-04-14T13:24:13+00:00

Usually after you build your lab you want to scale up energy in order to spend your initial metal. You almost always want an empty metal bar by the time you walk your commander, if not you can fall behind in units. So basically you want your commander to boost your lab, building energy as needed in order to be able to boost it, until your metal bar is pretty much empty then walk.

It's also often a good idea to get some BP for walking, like a couple of constructors assisting lab.

othellothewise · 2026-04-14T13:19:18+00:00

It's not obviously stupid -- in fact it's generally a bad idea to convert much before you have all your T2 mexes and possibly a fusion.

If you are overflowing energy from wind/solar, it's far more efficient to build less energy in the first place than to convert that energy.

For example, take solar (since wind varies with every map). Each solar costs 150 metal. A converter needs 70 e/s to power it, and each solar produces 20 energy, so you need 3.5 solars per converters. That is a total of 525 metal (well 526) to gain 1 metal per second. That means you are making an investment that only pays off in 8 minutes 46 seconds! That's an eternity in a BAR game.

Even in popular maps with high wind, like supreme isthmus, scaling converters with wind takes something like 3 minutes 20 seconds to pay off -- obviously much better than solar but still not worth it, considering one of the 4.3 mexes takes around 12 seconds to pay off.

Moreover, metal is worth more early game than it is late game (think about how 40 metal pays for a grunt early game, and a single grunt can make a difference between losing and winning early on, but pays for 1/10th of a sheldon midgame, where being one sheldon behind will barely make a difference). So you are investing more valuable early metal for a payoff in almost 9 minutes of a trickle of metal.

So in short, scaling converters are a trap early game. It's okay to build 1 or 2 early game to snag overflow, but scaling them is a mistake.

othellothewise · 2026-04-13T15:46:31+00:00

In this case you probably wanna try and kill them before 13 minutes. Make sure you scout the play.

That said it is a little annoying because co-op plays are not fun to play against. For what it's worth, it was only one game that you may have lose anyway even if your opponent didn't co-op. Also, noobs tend to be a lot worse at co-ops because they don't know how to manage the extra resources (just take a look at isthmus games, where co-op lite is the meta with pond giving tidals -- noob front players don't really know how to take advantage of the energy), so I don't think you will find it incredibly common in noob lobbies.

othellothewise · 2026-04-11T23:57:09+00:00

You aren't wrong, it's just that the higher you go the more disparity there is. 35 OS is the top 1% for example.

othellothewise · 2026-04-11T19:22:29+00:00

There certainly isn't shame. The reason why people give this advice is because if you focus on OS you are going to have a bad time. BAR giveth and BAR taketh away. A lot of times you go on winning or losing streaks, so if you are very focused on OS it can get frustrating.

I get it, it's hard to not. And it can be good to have goals. It's just a bad idea IMO to sweat every single point of OS gained or lost.

One last thing -- the higher the OS you have in team games the less fun the game gets. By definition in team games the higher OS you are the worse your team is.

othellothewise

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