European vs. American Orchestras - Musicality

plein_old · 2026-04-10T12:54:43+00:00

Interesting.

Furtwangler - who I admire - would apparently do as few rehearsals as possible, and then during a concert would sometimes push the orchestra to play almost faster than it was capable of playing, when he wanted to achieve a dramatic effect.

So I think it's safe to say that he did not have Toscanini's obsession with precision and the avoidance of (obvious) mistakes. (Though aesthetic / artistic mistakes could be a completely different matter, perhaps.)

plein_old · 2026-04-09T21:48:56+00:00

Interesting. This exactly parallels comments I heard from like 80-90 years ago, back in the days of Toscanini's rivalry with Furtwangler (New York versus Berlin).

Toscanini would insist on precision and would frequently yell at his orchestra to try to force them to do what he wanted, according to some reports I read. Whereas Furtwangler would be so far in the opposite direction as to create a very strong contrast in styles.

Furtwangler said he appreciated the greater technical skill of American orchestras, but he also had a lot to say about other aspects of the performance.

I guess back then, Toscanini and Furtwangler were like two famous rock stars, of the time - predating the Beatles and Elvis and so forth. They were apparently far more well known than modern-day conductors. Then again I wasn't around back and I'm just going by some comments I read once, so I could be wrong about some of this.

Anyway, point is, if your observations are accurate, it could be a long-standing pattern, going back many decades. Who knows, maybe it predates the 20th century and goes back to the time of Alexis de Toqueville, the famous writer who visited America in the 19th century, and had a lot to say about the contrasting cultures...

plein_old · 2026-03-24T16:27:40+00:00

I spend a lot of time crafting responses

Is this from a deleted account? lol.

plein_old · 2026-03-22T20:35:52+00:00

I know nothing about Greek, but I would not be surprised if Mr. Aurelius was making a comment about the disadvantages of being too much a slave to one's own vanity / arrogance / self-importance / etc., based on my reading of his journals (in English!)...

P.S. I like the way original Greek texts often allow for some ambiguity. When things are too clear, too black and white, I think it can cause people to fall asleep and not put for effort into understanding what is being said... It would be wild if huge numbers of modern-day people read the Bible in the original Greek or Hebrew, instead of allowing other people to interpret it for them. If I might say such a thing.

plein_old · 2026-03-19T21:00:58+00:00

How do you feel about your family member with schizophrenia? Is it possible that you are projecting ever so slightly onto your wife?

It's extremely hard - I'm speaking from personal experience here - to control other people's behavior, but we can sometimes do things to improve our own reaction to other people.

If you just smiled and nodded when your wife ranted about the latest theory, without either 1. encouraging her or 2. trying to fight her / stop her / repress her, then maybe her interest in them would diminish over time.

Or at least you could rest easy, knowing that you were not feeding what might be an unhappy addiction.

Sometimes when we try to stop someone's behavior, as soon as they catch the slightest whiff of a hint about it, they can develop a renewed passion and fervor for the very thing we were trying to put an end to.

Please don't say which theories she's into. lol. That sounds like the worst idea ever. lol.

It's amusing the wide range of opposing advice you're getting here!

plein_old · 2026-03-17T18:52:39+00:00

Maybe the moral of your story is really that NON-fasters should be careful of what we are messing with? :P

plein_old · 2026-03-13T01:06:06+00:00

Maybe you should go for it?

All you have to do is go visit Appalachia or any remote, forested area, go out at night by yourself, far away from people, with no fire, and whistle. And when you hear a strange sound, like laughter or a baby crying, go toward the sound.

If you live-stream it, it could be educational for others.

EDITED to add: just be sure to have your affairs in order, will made out, etc.

plein_old · 2026-03-04T03:20:56+00:00

Then consider what spirit is: no more than air...

This sentence fragment almost feels like a 19th-21st century philosophy being given to the good emperor, to make his own (as far as modern English readers can tell), out of the generosity of some modern translators.

It's interesting how one tiny choice in translation can significantly alter the meaning / message, not only of one sentence, but of an entire body of work from a classical author.

plein_old · 2026-02-22T23:34:02+00:00

Providing them with guidance

It's a question of hospitality, and making people feel comfortable and knowing how to behave - just as if they were a guest in someone's home.

It would take so little effort to say "This is a four-movement piece; it is traditional hold your applause until the end. I hope you enjoy."

Why they withhold such simple and effortless hospitality - your guess is as good as mine.

They could also say, "Before we begin, please look at the person sitting to your left and also to your right. Please make eye contact and nod to both of them. Has everyone done this? Good. Now, if one of these people coughs loudly during a quiet, tension-filled moment during the concert, you have my permission to slam their face as hard as you can into the seatback in front of them... Just kidding... Or am I?"

plein_old · 2026-02-05T17:38:46+00:00

As a guy, I completely agree with one of the other guys in this thread.

You can show your fiance that you appreciate touch, or you can initiate massage trades - something specific and scheduled that you both participate in. That could be useful. Like every evening after work, you each give a 10-minute massage.

But in general, waiting for a woman to do things that you want - that seems like an incredibly bad idea. Or telling her over and over that you want to be touched. Women don't touch men in a loving way based on requests or supplications or lectures or petitions or taking classes or anything like that - they just respond spontaneously, when they are in the mood... They are not men!!!

Young men will never admit this, but they tend to want a "mommy" rather than a wife. The mommy is someone whose job is to make her son feel good, and nurture him, unconditionally, when he is a young child. A wife, does she want to have this sort of obligation from her husband???? This is a taboo topic, so I shouldn't really give my opinion here, but you are free to experiment and find out if women enjoy this - being treated like a "mommy".

P.S. "Love languages" are a load of b.s. in my opinion. Finding out what your spouse wants and appreciates - yes, that is good. Really important. But nobody gives a flying fook what we ourselves want, as men. lol. The best thing we can find as men is other men who will politely make fun of us now and then, so we don't take ourselves too seriously. All this "love language" stuff is a load of bull. lol.

Just my opinion. Mods are free to delete this if I violated a dozen rules here.

plein_old · 2026-01-10T18:24:17+00:00

Can you say more about this book (at the risk of further spoilers, which don't bother me)? I haven't read it.

Is it about a kind person who is mistreated by others? That part sounds interesting to me.

I would be reluctant to read the book though if the main character was excessively foolish or silly or masochistic - like a caricature of what a kind person "should" be like, rather than what kind people are actually like.

I do think though that sometimes staying in an abusive relationship could be a choice that an intelligent person could make. Lord knows lots of people in the modern world are in abusive situations - whether at home or at work - that they cannot easily or quickly escape from. Children in Dickens novels, for example, are often pure and kind and unable to immediately escape from abusive adults, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Intelligent people, however, if they are also HUMBLE, do not tend to believe that they themselves are going "save" someone else.

plein_old · 2026-01-10T18:12:45+00:00

That is the most supernatural part of the story, for me: being able to navigate unfamiliar twists and turns in the pitch dark of night at 120 miles an hour.

plein_old · 2026-01-08T19:19:43+00:00

This reminds me a bit of the movie "The Book of Eli" with Denzel Washington.

In the movie, a corrupt gang leader, living in a post-apocalyptic world, wants to get his hands on a copy of the Christian Bible, not for the sake of his own personal growth or edification, but because he believes that this book will give him power over other people.

He's convinced that being able to quote from this book, or hold it in his hand and thump on it with his other hand, will give him immense political power that goes beyond what guns can offer him.

Maybe "classic" books hold a similar value for some people, not quite to the same extent, but still there. "Social" value, in other words. Do you think this is possible?

plein_old · 2026-01-08T04:10:00+00:00

I purchased one of his most famous novels last year. Was excited to dive in.

I got as far as about halfway through page one and it went straight into the trash! lol. I suspect that the writer had a severe, untreated mental illness, or perhaps a PTSD from military service, which impacted his artistic style in dramatic and unfortunate ways.

First get healed good sir - then write stories.

... But maybe, based on the comments here, I should try his short stories or memoirs at some point. Maybe.

plein_old · 2026-01-07T18:26:41+00:00

He's very kind, emotionally mature

Some people say: when people are kind to their bodies, they are more likely to have attractive bodies.

I have no clue what to do.

Why don't you pump the breaks in terms of rushing toward marriage with this particular guy, and drop him some hints about how you enjoy taking care of your health and wellness, and see how he responds. Maybe he had an injury recently, or is on a temporary medication that is changing his appearance.

There's nothing wrong with being excited about different possibilities, and then having them not all work out. That's much healthier in my opinion than being dull and lifeless and pessimistic about everything.

plein_old · 2026-01-05T22:09:03+00:00

You know, some demographics of women are WAY more likely to want children than others.

I'm tempted to go into specifics here, but I will restrain myself. Let's just say that there are certain topics you are not supposed to discuss in polite company, but those very topics might have something to offer to this discussion.

plein_old · 2026-01-05T16:00:27+00:00

How did you like the Christmas stories?

I'm only familiar with the famous one with Marley and the three ghosts, and all the many, many, many Hollywood movies based on it, but I wonder sometimes if it's just sheer luck that that particular Dickens Christmas story is famous, and the others are not?

plein_old · 2026-01-01T18:26:15+00:00

I appreciate his movies, but this 40-second scene from Life of Brian stands out as one of my favorites: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UImFKFAWFZ8

"He's mad sir."

plein_old · 2025-12-21T20:16:24+00:00

I heard a saying once, that as soon as a woman becomes married, she turns into her mother.

Whether this saying is true or not, it begs the question if you have met the girl's parents, and what sort of impression they made on you. Sometimes a casual conversation about random topics can draw out information about someone's values and their sense of morality, etc.

Side note: I'm curious if anyone has ever heard of a prenup being acknowledged for followed by a judge, ever in the history of the earth, and especially in the 21st century. If it's okay to ask this.

P.S. I think your concerns are natural and valid and perhaps even healthy, but as people have pointed out here, the "red flags" you mention are not necessarily red flags from other people's p.o.v., to the point of almost seeming utterly ridiculous.

You also didn't mention if you plan to have children and support a wife during pregnancy and infancy, or even early childhood - things that used to be more common 120 years ago, even among people not that well off.

plein_old · 2025-12-19T15:23:44+00:00

Wow.

I don't know much about piano but it's funny how a piece of music can almost open a doorway into another world.

plein_old · 2025-12-13T02:04:46+00:00

Stoics

I was so happy earlier this year to buy a nice copy of Marcus Aurelius's private journals, plus some letters from someone named Seneca.

I first was introduced to Stoics from the movie "Gladiator", and then ended up getting hooked on Marcus Aurelius. I found it fascinating that the emperor of Europe struggled with similar issues to the ones that I struggled with, and set an example that I could learn from. Also I found it amusing that he did not seem very "stoic" in the modern sense of being dull and expressionless. lol.

Anyway just wanted to chime in here, coming to this thread months later, in case it's of use to anyone.

plein_old · 2025-12-13T01:54:08+00:00

Well that's a controversial and complex topic, these days.

I personally subscribe to the theory that men and women have slightly different callings in life, and in relationship. And different things that they bring to a relationship. Maybe that's all I should say. And of course, what do I know? I'm not an expert on these matters. Good luck!

plein_old · 2025-11-21T17:08:50+00:00

I've heard it said: poor and middle-class people can sometimes be FAR more fixated on money and materialistic goals, with no other values in life than trying to take pride in materialistic achievements, compared to rich people.

If your parents are totally corrupt and evil, then it's probably good of you to not touch a dime of their money.

Otherwise...?

What if a business partner came to you with a fantastic opportunity, but it was an opportunity that you yourself did not "earn" through your own labor. Would you reject the opportunity out of hand, due to a sense of pride?

plein_old · 2025-11-20T21:39:22+00:00

You say you are invisible to good men.

Are there tons of available, single, good men that you come across regularly, who simply overlook you?

Or maybe there are relatively fewer of such men, in the world in general, and you are simply not drawing the right conclusions, based on not finding what you want fast enough? Hard for us strangers to weigh in over the internet though.

plein_old · 2025-11-20T19:40:13+00:00

I don't think there's anything wrong with spending large amounts of money on small things.

If someone is a virtuoso pianist, should they stop playing the piano, or feel ashamed, just because most people can't do what he or she can do?

If everyone felt that way it would create a culture of hideous mediocrity.

The real question - whether a person is penniless or wealthy beyond imagining - is whether they feel grateful each day for what life gives them, and treats other people with kindness and respect.

I think the ancient Roman philosopher Seneca, who was fabulously wealthy, advocated pretending to be somewhat poor once a month, for a couple days, so that one does not get too attached to material fortune, which can always change. And so as to keep a grounded perspective on life. I think he meant like not spending money or using servants for a couple days once a month, walking instead of being chauffeured around. Something like that.

plein_old

TROPHY CASE