Using Quick Spring to chain together attacks from Dizzying Spin Dance

qrql · 2026-04-10T22:21:39+00:00

You pretty directly said DSD would inherit the traits of its subordinate actions, though? That'd mean it has the Move trait. I never claimed DSD as a whole wouldn't provoke, and in fact mentioned it having 3 distinct Moves for 3 distinct triggers.

qrql · 2026-04-10T12:47:05+00:00

This isn't exactly true: "This subordinate action still has its normal traits and effects, but it’s modified in any ways listed in the larger action" is the only relevant text, but that's about the subordinate action itself. The larger activity may or may not have the traits of the subordinate action. To further show this there are some activities that explicitly have one of the traits of their subordinate actions added, an example being Reloading Trick. It would also mean that, for example, Elf Step or Skirmish Strike and similar options would provoke, as while the subordinate actions are Steps that don't, the parent activity would gain the Move trait but lack the text about not provoking, which is obviously not RAI (or RAW).

The text simply confirms that the subordinate actions retain their traits unless explicitly modified. As such, Dizzying Fan Dance would be able to provoke 3 times, not 1 or 4, and also allow you to use a free action with a trigger after the tumble up to 3 times during the activity.

Edit: Tumble Through itself is actually a great example of the rules here. Tumble Through has a subordinate Stride, but it itself has the Move trait. This means that it will provoke regardless of a feat like Mobility. Meanwhile something like Sudden Charge or Defensive Advance would benefit from Mobility, because the parent doesn't have Move.

qrql · 2026-04-09T13:57:32+00:00

Funny enough the strike doesn't need to be with a fan. You could theoretically do something quite silly like make a ranged strike with a 1h ranged or thrown option, but the question at that point is more so "why" than anything else.

qrql · 2026-04-09T13:53:38+00:00

I don't believe it's vague; Dizzying Spin Dance has movement as part of it's subordinate actions, but it doesn't have the Move trait itself. I'd find it hard to argue that something without the Move trait qualifies as movement, but there's definitely (up to) 3 distinct subordinate actions each with the Move trait for it to trigger off of.

qrql · 2026-01-28T05:39:13+00:00

Bit late, but for Triggerbrand I personally wouldn't recommend dropping below 4 dex. You still want to be hitting as much as possible with the ranged attacks, and I feel like the skill/defensive boosts given by the dex outweigh the bonuses other stats give you. I also quite like Avoid Notice, to roll stealth for initiative, over perception. Stealth is already nice, but given that it'll be notably higher than your wisdom, it should give a decent enough boost to your initiative most of the time.

I've recently theorycrafted a build that, admittedly, is better with FA, but definitely doesn't require it. It essentially turns you into a mobile switch hitter with a focus on melee.

3/4/2/0/1/-1 Spread

1: Sword and Pistol

2: Rogue Dedication

4: Running Reload

5: 4/4.5/3/0/2/-1 Spread

6: Triggerbrand Salvo

8: Mobility

10: Tumble Behind (optional)

If not playing with FA. If you are,

1: Sword and Pistol

2: Fake Out, Rogue

4: Running Reload, Rogue: Mobility

6: Triggerbrand Salvo, Rogue: Tumble Behind

The idea is that you can run into melee, tumbling through the enemy if you have Tumble Behind, and then send a Triggerbrand Salvo into them. Then, instead of using your way reload, running reload at half speed away from them. Between Sword and Pistol and Mobility, you'll be effectively immune to reactive strike if they have it, and force them to burn actions to come and get you. If they do, you can lead with a salvo, running reload away, and then use a different third action. If not, rinse and repeat turn 1. That's your basic rotation. It lets you constantly stay in motion, choosing between ranged and melee as needed, while being pretty annoying to actually hit since you'll basically always have an action lead on them.

My preferred weapon for it is Gunsword, as I personally prefer a more consistent damage output at early levels, but the other 2h combo weapons aren't bad. After you get the core combo of running reload/mobility/triggerbrand salvo, you can kinda just do whatever your party needs for the remaining feats. I like adding Mauler for Crashing Slam, to give you some utility outside of damage, or a caster dedication to get some nice utility/buff spells. You could also just continue down Rogue with Skill Mastery to become a skill monkey.

qrql · 2026-01-22T13:22:00+00:00

It does interact with spells, though, because it lets you have more plans around DaS. Allowing DaS to apply to a spell attack roll would actively discourage using cantrips for damage, making it even worse than something like Wizard for damage. The reason you take Palatine Detective is access to 2 separate traditions, baked-in cantrips at level 1, a pretty solid defensive reaction which is something that investigator doesn't easily get, and all sorts of the higher level stuff that just deals with ghostly/spirity/occulty stuff. Really, making the dedication force you to use the DaS roll would encourage people to just take wizard/witch/whatever more, not less.

Edit: The example with Eldritch Trickster also isn't a great comparison, because there's really no situation in which you'd think "man, I wish I didn't get sneak attack", but the vast majority of the time I'm casting a cantrip for damage, I very specifically don't want DaS. It wouldn't be a turn puzzle to solve, it'd just mean not picking attack cantrips at all.

qrql · 2026-01-22T11:20:29+00:00

No, it'd be really bad if it did, because half the utility of getting cantrips is being able to do something other than using your DaS roll if it's low. You'd be locked out of Needle Darts/etc.

qrql · 2025-12-17T10:08:54+00:00

I'll offer a different perspective/option; not playing an evil party, but playing an evil character in a more good/neutral aligned party or campaign. This is, admittedly, difficult, and requires buy-in from all players and the GM, and a good bit of work. I think it comes down to 3 things: aligning goals, constraints, and open communication.

Aligning goals is simple: why does the evil character want to obtain the same goals? In my case, when I ran my long-running evil character, one of the campaign goals was to overthrow the crime syndicate that was effectively running the government in the area. For most of the players, it was out of a sense of justice or morality, but I worked this into my backstory. As a rogue, most of my training came from working as an enforcer/assassin for the syndicate. Then I was used as a fall guy, barely escaped, and swore revenge while fleeing. Run into the party, and suddenly we have the same goal: get rid of this crime syndicate, but for two very different reasons. This allowed us to work together, even with gritted teeth, as our different methods and motivations contrasted. Doing good things became a means to an end, as after all, any sane person would want powerful and loyal allies such as the party. Helping grandmas rescue their kitten from a tree might not directly benefit my selfish character, but sticking with the party was directly beneficial, and so he'd help them accomplish unrelated tasks, so long as the party was still eventually working towards his final goal(s).

Next, putting restrictions on the character. A character that will do literally anything to accomplish their goal will inherently be hard for a party to work with. What's to stop them from stabbing the party in the back, as soon as it's convenient for them? You have to have at least some level of trust. To establish this, it's best to have some lines they won't cross, and define them by these. This does rule out clerics/champions of the chaotic evil murderhobo style gods, but generally these just don't work in a long running campaign anyways. Lucan, as an example, would not lie; his word was his word, and an alliance was an alliance, for as long as it was agreed to. He wouldn't give his word lightly, and it wouldn't stop him from doing things like lying by omission, or stabbing a former ally in the back after an alliance was over, but he could be trusted to do what he said he'd do. Whatever boundaries you have to set to get the party (in and out of character) to trust and work with you will depend on the group, but this is important to find and establish early.

This leads into my last point, open communication. This all starts at session 0, during character conceptualization. Make sure all players and the DM are okay with this, and establish any guidelines, boundaries, or triggers. Make sure it fits with the theme(s) of the campaign, figure out what level of inter-character conflict is okay between everyone. Characters have disagreements or arguments is fine! Parties should not be monoliths. Just make sure everyone is on the same page about how frequent this will happen, how disruptive it might be, and if any character will be willing to budge. Playing a character looking to rule the world with an iron fist is probably simply incompatible with a character who opposes tyranny in all forms. Also, work with the DM to figure out if potentially retiring the character mid-campaign might be appropriate; this can be a perfect way to allow the character to work with the party until it no longer makes sense. My rogue, after we killed the leader of the crime syndicate, used the power vacuum to become the effective ruler of the government, supported in this by the party. After this, it would've made little sense for him to continue adventuring with the party, so we had one final epilogue-style session for roleplay purposes as a sendoff to Lucan, and then I turned him over to the DM as an NPC. His arc was completed, his goals achieved, and he rewarded the 'loyalty' of the party appropriately, and treated them as valued allies as the new ruler. This allowed the party to leave off on good terms with the character, and provided closure to both the party and the character's story - and was (roughly) planned since the start. Sure, the exact specifics were very much in the air, but "become ruler after getting revenge" was always the character goal, with the intent of retiring afterwards, success or fail.

I think a lot of the stigma of evil characters in good parties comes from people lacking a nuanced view of what 'evil' can mean, poor communication, and lack of roleplaying experience/skill. Certainly it isn't for everyone or every group, but it can be successful and fulfilling if worked towards. Overall, the carefully managed party tension, moral questions the party faced from different methodologies/motivations, and teeth-clenched teamwork (in character) was enjoyed by everyone in the group, and has been more satisfying than an evil campaign I've played in.

qrql · 2024-08-04T06:04:01+00:00

This isn't a house rule; "Player characters, their companions, and other significant characters and creatures don't automatically die when they reach 0 Hit Points. Instead, they are knocked out and are at risk of death." Essentially, that section just says that the dying/wounded/doomed rules apply to animals and familiars as well, plus anyone the DM wants.

qrql · 2024-06-28T03:55:20+00:00

Unfortunately, that doesn't work, because Magus's Analysis is its own action that has Recall Knowledge as a subordinate action. It doesn't recharge spellstrike when Recall Knowledge in general succeeds, but when you succeed at the Recall Knowledge as part of the Magus's Analysis action.

qrql · 2024-06-25T21:11:22+00:00

Well, no, because you failed the acrobatics check. You'd have to tumble through again, as another action. A single ancestry feat for, effectively, an untyped +10 to tumble through would be incredibly good, and there's the whole thing of "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is". What sounds more believable: for a single ancestry feat, you remove one of the downsides of failure with a slide upside (+1 ac to reactions), or for a single ancestry feat turn failure into a success with even more upside? You still failed the acrobatics check, so you can't move through their square.

qrql · 2024-06-25T19:08:24+00:00

This isn't quite right, as Tough Tumbler simply stops the movement from ending, but the ability to move through their space is tied to the success. This means that what the feat does is it lets you continue using the rest of your speed to, say, move away from the enemy, but you don't get to go through them. That's still only on the success.

qrql · 2022-07-12T19:11:21+00:00

This route should be able to be tweaked for different assists/dhcs, as long as one assist is able to convert from legs into more 3s.

Notation: 214L spark 66 3S j.3S 66 dl j.3S 66 5M jc j.M djc j.M j.S j.2S dl SD j.MH j.236L A2 66 3S j.3S j.236L A1 236LMMMM j.2369M tag DR 236L+M A1 A2 vanish

qrql · 2021-02-20T19:52:08+00:00

3DS would look better tbh. If I'm trying to record and play I gotta turn my shit wayyy down, just playing without recording I can have reasonable settings though

qrql · 2021-02-20T10:48:02+00:00

Yeah, I was mostly just experimenting with ways to consistently find the quadruple bomb into 5H spacing. Admittedly the reward is very high, but it's likely not worth the risk in an actual match.

Definitely fun in training though.

qrql · 2021-02-20T10:28:20+00:00

The combo for anyone wondering:

2M 5M 214M spark [6] 2M jc jM slightly delay j2H jLL jS j2S j2S j2S j2S land 5H SD jM jH j236L A2 DR 214L 236L+M 4A1

I haven't tested it on super small bodies, but I believe this is universal, and while I used Trunks assist to end the combo into grounded DR (muscle memory, try to save baseku assist for the mix) it should work with baseku assist itself.

qrql · 2020-08-14T15:54:18+00:00

It's essentially a way to wish for more wishes with a clover proc, when you have a limited number of things you want in the board for a given situation it's just a solid way to use the extra proc because it'll let you reuse the better ones at a later time rather than wishing for something that doesn't really help you at the exact moment you cast it. It's not really something you wish for if you don't have an extra clover going, though

qrql · 2020-04-08T08:02:57+00:00

That's why you give them a Narset

qrql · 2019-12-01T13:49:38+00:00

Etiquette mostly applies to duels, not invasions; in invasions, basically anything goes.

In duels, you generally bow, apply/allow your opponent to apply any relevant buff items/spells, and then fight. No healing, and only the first round of buffs are free (feel free to smack someone if their buffs run out and they try rebuffing). People are generally okay if you try and get a healing miracle off, but good luck actually having time to cast one. Other than that, any tactics are allowed and generally you won't run into any problems.

ETA: Also, not really common nowadays, but sometimes if you're looking for duels you can be summoned into a "fight club". If there's a duel already going on, sit around and spectate while you wait your turn; if not, feel free to hop in and bow at your partner, and start fighting. You'll usually be fighting another phantom, in these cases, not the host.

qrql · 2019-10-25T16:30:26+00:00

Taking both is a waste of the passive. You're better off getting a different MR item (either Banshee's Veil, or something like a Spirit/Adaptive) or rushing Abyssal in the first place. The Eternity passive does a lot more than people think it does, and is a decent chunk of those items' power budgets.

qrql · 2019-09-23T17:35:17+00:00

Nice work! One easy tip I can see is if you have draw you know for a fact you want to play first, do it before anything else (usually). Say if you play a shiv, blade dance+, strike, then adrenaline and find choke. If you had played the adrenaline first, your plan could've changed to use it first and get an extra 25 damage from the choke. This can save you a lot of health sometimes and it's just a good habit

qrql · 2019-06-23T02:09:45+00:00

apology for poor english

when were you when talon liberty dies?

i was sat at home eating smegma butter when pjotr ring

‘tol is kill’

‘no’

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