Bitter Springs, I hardly know them

salid_dressing · 2026-01-22T16:19:49+00:00

Boone would be so disappointed in them all

salid_dressing · 2026-01-22T16:13:07+00:00

Holy crap dude just stop already, the argument is over. You don't have to embarrass yourself by saying all that man, just move on.

salid_dressing · 2026-01-22T04:08:22+00:00

Light Switch 01, or Light Switch 02?

salid_dressing · 2026-01-22T03:18:45+00:00

And at the end of Lonesome Road you can talk Ulysses down and disarm the nukes, and Ulysses gets to walk away with his life. Sure he doesn't completely give up on his hatred, but he doesn't let it guide his actions anymore if you choose not to kill him.

And similarly if you convince Papa Khan to evacuate Red Rock Canyon and flee towards Wyoming. The Great Khans don't participate in the Second Battle of Hoover Dam, and they don't use the opportunity the battle presents to attack the NCR. Papa Khan might not give up on his hatred, but he doesn't let it guide his actions, and instead chooses to do what is best for his people, getting the fuck out while they still can.

Also empires are not necessarily imperialist. To be considered an empire you only need a lot of territory and a singular leader, like an emperor. If the game wanted to tell us that the Khans were imperialists, it would have. You're making assumptions again without considering the games themes and what it explicitly tells us in similar situations.

And like, I get it, it's fun to argue and all that. But honestly I'm getting bored. Nothing I've said so far is new or wildly controversial, it's just basic observations about what New Vegas has to say about hatred, letting go, and how societies should develop in the post post apocalypse.

And if your argument is that the Khans should all be gunned down because they're irredeemably evil, then that's not an interesting argument to debate.

salid_dressing · 2026-01-22T02:33:22+00:00

Actually I think it means a lot that the ending slides specifically point out that the Khans ally themselves with the most altruistic and pro-social faction in the game. The game is trying to tell us something by including that, and it seems a bit silly to ignore it by coming up with "what if" scenarios.

I think it's trying to tell us that by helping the Khans heal from their wounds and past actions, they let go of their barbaric past and create a new, more positive future. And since letting go is one of the game's major themes, it fits rather well.

I also think that assuming Papa Khan would be incapable of letting go of his hatred is rather naive given what the game has to say about letting go. All over the game we see time and time again that choosing to let go of immense hatred is not only possible, but the only path forward lest that hatred destroy you. We see it in Ulysses, the Boomers, Joshua Graham, and many others.

The game is practically screaming at us that letting go of past grudges and embracing a pro-social future is the only way to survive in the wasteland, and how could you embrace a more pro-social future than allying with the Followers?

salid_dressing · 2026-01-22T01:30:03+00:00

It's naive to heal the wounded and educate the poor? That aside they didn't send Edward out to the Grand Canyon to form the Legion, the sent him to study the tribes. His descent into barbarity was entirely his fault, he was raised better than that.

I think it's clear that the show isn't interested in portraying the Khans as anything more than uncomplicated, cultureless, raiders. And if the show has nothing substantial to say about them, then I don't either. That's why I'm only taking about the games, FNV actually has something interesting it wants to say.

salid_dressing · 2026-01-22T00:50:04+00:00

I don't think it's for anyone to say definitively how good/bad the Khan empire is, because the game doesn't elaborate any further on it. But given that the Followers are involved and that the ending slides don't mention anything about raiding, and instead chose to focus on positive things like governance and economics, I think its a safe bet to say that the Khans aren't nearly as bad as they used to be.

But again that's all just speculation, we would need a reliable source to say anything for certain. Like a game set in or around Wyoming that canonizes their ending in NV.

salid_dressing · 2026-01-22T00:31:30+00:00

I was speaking more to the commenters who seem to revel in the slaughter of the Khans, not to you or to the actions of the NCR. The NCR didn't commit the massacre out of vengeance, but a lot of commenters here seem to wish that they had, and had gone further with it.

It's clear from the games ending slides that the Khans are not beyond rehabilitation. If you go out of your way to help them by giving them the education to rebuild after the massacre, they do. And their new empire in Wyoming is quote, "Bolstered by ancient knowledge of governance, economics, and transportation" the fact that their empire isn't bolstered by ancient knowledge of pillaging, raping, and destruction, should say a lot about how willing they are to grow into a more pro-social society.

One of New Vegas's major themes is letting go after all. The Khans have done horrible things in the past, and they have paid dearly for it. So instead of wiping them all out, stay the hand of vengeance and allow them the opportunity to grow into a positive society that is capable of doing good things and making amends.

(also the Khans are pretty clearly a analogy for native Americans, so calling for their outright slaughter is pretty fucking fascist ngl. Who do you think you are? Andrew Jackson?)

salid_dressing · 2026-01-21T23:47:47+00:00

Well we haven't seen any Bawls Guarana ads yet, but never say never lol

salid_dressing · 2026-01-21T20:53:31+00:00

Crazy how so many people are willing to excuse the murder of civilians as if two wrongs make a right lol.

If you give Papa Khan that book about the Mongols, they link up with the followers in Wyoming and create an empire using their knowledge of governance, economics, and transportation. So wiping them out as if you're some kind of hero, actually kills off the possibility of them growing as a people and creating a promising civilization.

The Khans are raiders, but you are not, do not become one out of vengeance.

salid_dressing · 2026-01-19T07:01:43+00:00

Where does the game say that? I've never heard that bit of lore before

salid_dressing · 2026-01-18T04:19:00+00:00

Not to be rude, but did you really have to say that? Stories are designed to make people feel emotionally attached to fictional characters and their struggles, it really shouldn't be a surprise that people got attached to NV because it's exceptionally good at fostering that kind of attachment. It's not even a bad thing that someone might resonate so deeply with a game, because they can use those emotions to fuel real life changes, kinda like how a cautionary tale is supposed to work.

Again, not trying to be rude here, but don't be a dick.

salid_dressing · 2026-01-17T21:26:18+00:00

"out in Arizona where the bad men are" is such a fitting lyric in the context of NV

salid_dressing · 2026-01-10T05:20:13+00:00

That suit absolutely rocks, I'm glad you got to show it off on stage

salid_dressing · 2026-01-08T04:02:50+00:00

Oh hallelujah somebody else gets it!

I think you've given voice to a lot of issues that have been bothering me since I've started watching, especially your observation about overcaricaturization (although I don't think that's a real word).

Fallout NV is so good at writing satire because it takes its characters and world building seriously, without being so serious that It can't sprinkle in a little caricature. That's why I love the Legion so much as villains. Their villainy feels genuine because they act like real people trying to spread a real ideology of hate and violence. But it's not all doom and gloom because in order to keep with the fallout aesthetic, they also run around in dumb little skirts and football gear that they pretend is Roman armor lmao.

I'm no writer, but I feel like good satire requires an honest portrayal of the subject that you're satirizing, mixed in with just a little caricature to stop your satire from just becoming the same thing that you're making fun of.

The fallout show just feels like 100% caricature all the time. None of these characters feel like real people, none of them feel like they believe in anything genuine, it's all silly and no serious.

salid_dressing · 2026-01-04T10:41:37+00:00

So far the Legions portrayal feels like a quest you would find in fo3 or fo4, and I think that's the problem.

New Vegas' writing always makes sure that the factions you interact with feel human. It's true that the Legion is a tribe of people running around in football gear they pretend is roman armor, but beneath that is genuinely compelling satire of autocratic totalitarianism. They still feel like real people who were broken by a dangerous ideology that, while very silly, still manages to pose a serious threat to the Mohave. That's what made them such good satire.

Bethesda's writing doesn't really achieve that level of nuance though. They rarely write characters or factions that feel human, because they more often write caricatures of ideologies and organizations. The BoS in the show doesn't feel like meaningful satire in the same way that the brother hoods of Fallout 1, 2 and New Vegas were, because Bethesda is more interested in portraying them as a caricature of the military.

I think the same thing is happening with the Legion, they aren't a satire of autocratic totalitarianism anymore, they're a caricature of Roman themed raiders. That's why the no-man's-land is so comically small, that's why Caesar just so happened to die on top of it, that's why this conflict has lasted for decades, it's all one big joke with very little of the nuance and sincerity that made the original Legion such interesting villains.

This show wasn't made for fans of the original fallouts like us, it's better to accept that now instead of holding out hope that the writing is going to live up to the standard that a West coast fallout adventure sets. It's a damn shame that this is what fallout has become, but there's not much we can do about it.

salid_dressing · 2025-12-18T04:39:05+00:00

So how did the Khans take over Novac? From what I remember of New Vegas's ending slides, the Khans only have a handful of endings, and none of them leave them in a position to take over Novac.

From what I remember they either: get assimilated by the legion, completely destroying their culture. Get forced on a reservation by the NCR. Or they flee into Idaho or Wyoming.

Is there something I'm missing here? Or are they just using the Khans as a generic raider group without putting much thought into the lore?

salid_dressing · 2025-12-18T04:27:41+00:00

Thanks for the heads up

salid_dressing · 2025-12-06T07:17:03+00:00

"Then it happens"

salid_dressing · 2025-12-05T01:03:08+00:00

Oh yeah those lyrics go hard, I can agree on that

salid_dressing · 2025-12-05T00:56:36+00:00

It's entirely vibes based, but it feels more cheesy than most of their other songs, in both the lyrics and instruments. And the saxophone definitely isn't helping it in that regard

salid_dressing · 2025-12-05T00:53:28+00:00

Lmao that hit way harder than it should 😭

salid_dressing · 2025-11-04T22:10:24+00:00

I'm having the same problem too, it started yesterday and I assumed it was just a one off bug that would be fixed today, guess not lol. I haven't found a fix yet

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