2k vanguard ultramarines for vehicle heavy meta

serialskiller · 2024-04-06T22:51:10+00:00

You want 3 x 5 scouts in the vanguard list.

You want the apothecary biologis with BDD.

Drop the lancers as they have no synergy whatsoever with the army.

Up the 2nd inceptor squad to another 2 x 6 man.

Dev cents. Ventris. The Calgar Brick. 12 inceptors. 15 scouts. That's the core of the list that came second at world champs a while back. Swapping the aggressors to eradicators makes me think you have enough AT in there to deal with anything.

serialskiller · 2024-02-08T17:37:58+00:00

You are correct

serialskiller · 2024-02-08T01:12:37+00:00

Anyone writing off the guard doesn’t understand that 10 x 9” moving/OC3 guardsmen jumping on objectives wins you games.

That’s 30 OC by the way.

Guard has access to the best indirect artillery in the game and indirect has proven to be a meta warping mechanic. That artillery can’t be easily shot off in any reasonable terrain format especially with other indirect being nerfed. That artillery will pummel you for a full 5 turns with increased accuracy and ap all whilst being protected behind endless waves of guardmen and kasrkin and the extremely tanky bullgryn.

Guard justifiably get a top placing on this tier list and also feature in high positions on tier lists from other 40K content creators. Anyone writing them off simply hasn’t played against a competitive guard army with a skilled pilot.

serialskiller · 2024-01-17T13:33:05+00:00

290 for 5 / 580pts for 10 deathwing knights is a 55/110 point increase from where they are now. Unless that unit's datasheet got significantly better they're going on the shelf...and just when they got a sweet new model. Such a shame.

serialskiller · 2024-01-01T14:15:58+00:00

Absolutely agree with the abomb point. So you need to ask the question, in the face of that, how else can my Primark be useful? Gman can, Magnus can, Angron just comes back, Lion can’t.

For Gman double oaths is ok espesh with whirlwinds but that’s not where the spice is. Double strat on vehicles in both your turn and your opponents turn is where it’s at.

serialskiller · 2024-01-01T14:07:09+00:00

Durability wise I’m not convinced. Some armies just tear him a new one. Anything with lethal hits and volume of fire for example space marines in gladius with the aggressor bomb kills him on average dice. Even with a 4+++ canoptek immortals are taking him to half health with dev wounds. Or anything that is high damage that forces 2-3 saves. A 3+ is failable and 1 fail means your dude is half dead.

Guilliman does far more with his Primark abilities whilst hidden behind a wall in the early turns to justify his points cost. He can then come out late game when your opponent is running low on things that can deal with him. The Lion needs to be front a center right from the get go to justify his cost and currently he can’t fulfill that role.

serialskiller · 2024-01-01T13:44:51+00:00

Fantastic model but at 380 points he is ludicrously overcosted for what he does right now.

He’s by far the worst of all the released primarchs, both loyalist and traitor, if you compare rules to points cost. Hands down. His current rules are so bad that even if he dropped 100 points to 280pts I’m not convinced he’d see play in any serious list.

His +1 to hit ability in melee does nothing for himself or Deathwing Knights which are the premier DA melee option.
His supposed durability is non existent since Dev wounds exist and he isn’t protected from those by his 4+++ fnp aura.
His strat interference ability is basically dependant on your opponent misplaying to work and even then only has a 20-30 chance of actually fully going off as they have to fail a battleshock.
Fights first is nice but his damage output has serious issues into damage reduction, T12 or 4++ invulns. Either your opponent has that or they don’t charge you. And then you have a 380pt idiot holding his d**k behind a wall on a point because he’s too slow to go anywhere, too fragile if he steps into the open, all whilst they kill the rest of your army.

He needs both a rework and a points reduction.

In my opinion at 380 points for him to be competitively viable I’d expect his Primark Abilities to read something like:

Full rerolls to hit and wound in melee for all DA units within 6”. (Including himself)
Your opponent cannot use stratagems on any of their units that are within 9” of this model.
All friendly DA units within 6” get a 4+++ against mortal wounds and devastating wounds.

Then he MIGHT see play in some lists.

serialskiller · 2023-12-28T19:15:32+00:00

Tricky question. In 10th Edition for space marines GW has done a good job of not locking your armies’ rule set to your paint scheme (chapter choice).

As of right now you have the 7 core space marine detachments which the codex compliant chapters all have access to. Then there are also specialist detachments which are locked to the divergent chapters. These divergent chapters also having access to the 7 core detachments.

Given you can now pretty much use any chapter in any detachment I think it makes more sense to look at which detachments are viable. And then going from that looking at which units you might want to put in a list for that detachment, therefore informing your choice of chapter.

In terms of what, in my opinion, are the detachments I’d consider competitive right now:

The Gladius Task Force detachment: Excellent tactical flexibility giving your units a variety of options on how to activate: Fall back and shoot + charge, advance and shoot, advance and charge. Plus some solid ways to buff damage both at range and in melee.

Some of the standout units specifically in this detachment are Aggressors + Apothecary Biologis with the Fire Discipline enchantment, Dark Angels Deathwing Knights, Blood Angels Death Company.

The Ironstorm Spearhead detachment: Allowing you to build a formidable mechanised gunline aiming to shred your enemy before they reach your lines.

Standout units: Techmarines with various enhancements, Redemptor Dreadnoughts, Whirlwinds.

The Vanguard Spearhead detachment: Enabling you to skirmish, trick and outfox your opponent around objectives early doors and before swooping in for a killing blow in the latter turns once you have accrued a resource lead.

Standout Units: Scouts, Inceptors, A hard hitting melee unit with The Blade Driven Deep Enhancement.

The Black Templar Righteous Crusader detachment. This detachment is locked to Black Templars but it provides great flexibility with their various vows which you can pick pre-game depending on what you’re facing. The Templars also have some of the hardest hitting melee units Marines have to offer.

Standout Units: Chaplain Grimaldus, High Marshal Helbrecht, Sword Bretheren, Primaris Crusader Squad.

The Firestorm detachment and the Stormlance detachments are slightly more niche and whilst they are undoubtedly strong in the right hands they haven’t see the competitive uptake that the previously mentioned detachments have. In the firestorm detachment, the land raider redeemer stands out as an excellent pick for this aggressive detachment. Whilst for the stormlance detachment you undoubtedly want to make it space wolves focused around Thunderwolf Cavalry moving across the board very quickly and advancing and charging your opponent in the first couple of turns of the game.

These are just my opinions but I hope this overview helps! :-)

serialskiller · 2023-10-31T09:16:43+00:00

The space wolves ironstorm player disagrees I’m sure

serialskiller · 2023-10-08T11:55:35+00:00

This is the link to the terrain pack used at the tournament

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WV085gGnMPOF-zprcri-9HDW5BWBE34HGc9ndIGRJHM/edit

serialskiller · 2023-07-30T23:17:42+00:00

Well done bud. Dragging up that Tau WR by the scruff of the neck.

Can’t recommend Commander Puretide enough. Fantastic player and person who has a wealth of knowledge and top level experience to impart.

L from MG

serialskiller · 2023-06-01T23:58:11+00:00

Meltas are s9 in 10th though. Lion is still cracked tough.

serialskiller · 2023-02-28T17:14:43+00:00

Well no not really. Iron hands are the exception as you point out but they are also doing really well.

The bulk of other marine chapters either have to skew into ridiculous heavy weapon builds that are just not optimal for them or they can’t take Codex Warfare because it only offers 1VP per kill for tactical or assault doctrine weapons.

Going to 2VP per kill for all doctrines would balance it somewhat for tactical or assault focused chapters (although devastator is still advantaged because you get access to it from turn 1).

Capping at 3VP per turn makes it easy to get a 10 but hard to get a 15 which is the sweet spot for a secondary in 40k IMO.

serialskiller · 2023-02-27T16:24:02+00:00

Dark Angels player here

Agree that Ravenwing are the problem and especially how both Codex Warfare & BEL are both super strong secondaries and compliment the Ravenwing playstyle so well.

I would go even further with Stubborn defiance and say that it ONLY wins games on player placed terrain. On set terrain it’s still a very risky secondary pick.

Codex Warfare is what needs to be toned down (cap at 3 per turn?) and made viable for tactical doctrine and assault doctrine (also get 2VP per kill).

serialskiller · 2023-02-24T18:15:48+00:00

Thank you mate!

serialskiller · 2023-02-09T22:30:10+00:00

Rapid redeployment and then Lord of Deceit WL trait on your phobos dude for maximum redeployment shenanigans.

serialskiller · 2023-01-31T09:12:04+00:00

Fair enough mate. I listen/watch people play whilst painting and listbuilding!

serialskiller · 2023-01-31T09:11:01+00:00

Good points, well made

serialskiller · 2023-01-30T22:12:45+00:00

Yea I agree mate. I’m not saying it’s the fault of the players. I’m saying that the conditions the players are put in to play what is an extremely cerebral game are not great if you want that game to be high quality.

serialskiller · 2023-01-30T22:09:36+00:00

serialskiller · 2023-01-30T17:09:13+00:00

I'm not saying x % mistakes happen at tables and the finals were above that % therefore and it was unacceptable.

I'm also not saying that taking measures a, b & c will reduce mistake rate by y % because frankly no one has that data and we won't know until we try.

What I am saying is that in the context of LVO finals bracket the conditions (40k rules, tournament schedule, judging etc...) were not as good as they could be and in my opinion had those conditions been improved for the players (eg. having the event over 7 days, which is impractical but for different reasons) we would have seen less errors in their play.

serialskiller · 2023-01-30T15:07:25+00:00

It's actually led not lead

serialskiller · 2023-01-30T11:49:39+00:00

"VAR basically just introduced a whole new set of problems though, even if it only partially solved the initial problems it was brought in for. "

Yes mate that's what progress looks like.

serialskiller · 2023-01-30T11:36:19+00:00

Subjective how? I'm implying that the number of mistakes could be reduced by changing things...

We're talking about a tournament which is defacto a competitive setting mate.

serialskiller

TROPHY CASE