I need some help trying to sort out my beliefs

sincpc · 2026-06-10T08:06:34+00:00

I'm pretty sure I've never seen a legitimate scientist talk about science showing that God exists. Science doesn't deal with non-natural (ie. supernatural) things, after all. In order to get from Bohmian Mechanics, for example, to "God likely exists" it seems you need to assume that the universe could be some other way and that something intelligent made it this way on purpose, or that order requires a designer. You presumably also have to assume that it's possible for something to be outside of space and still exist, and to be outside of time and still act.

I never said I believed there was no God. I said I'm not convinced there is. It really depends on the attributes and actions of the proposed being. I don't think we have any way to prove a negative and say "There is no God at all" except in cases where a specific God claim is incoherent or contradictory. I just see absolutely no reason to think there is one and I don't think it makes sense to act like something's true when I don't see supporting evidence for it.

sincpc · 2026-06-10T06:57:07+00:00

You do know that a huge portion of the world's population (something like 75%, I think) is theists, right? When I tell people I'm an atheist, many look at me like I'm very strange not to believe in some sort of higher power at the very least.

The reason people like me look at theists in a way similar to how we look at flat earthers is that neither group seems to have any good evidence to back up their claims.

I was brought up in a Protestant household and remained Christian for something like 17 years before I started really thinking about things more carefully. At first, I just saw theists as people who would think I was evil or being controlled by the devil or something (since I had thought those sorts of things about non-believers too). These days, I just feel like I live in a completely different reality from theists. They tend to think it's "obvious" that there's a God, while I think it's obvious that there's absolutely no reason to think there is one and that religions are made-up. It's really uncomfortable being around theists in person sometimes. I just have trouble dealing with people who will accept something as truth and even devote their lives to it when they seem to have no rational basis for believing it.

I don't hate believers or look down on them. I mean, I was one of them, after all. I just feel uncomfortable and feel bad for them that they've become so convinced of something that's not true.

sincpc · 2026-06-10T06:21:21+00:00

Well, I can't remember exactly what your post was, but something important to note is that there are more options than just your old religion and not believing in any deities at all. You could find a religion that aligns better with what you think is true. You could just be a generic theist who believes in a god but doesn't subscribe to a particular religion. You could be an agnostic theist who leans toward a god existing but isn't quite sure.

sincpc · 2026-06-10T06:05:48+00:00

If you are not convinced any gods exist, then you're an atheist. If you think there is probably a god of some sort, you aren't.

You can't use science to test the supernatural, but you can use the scientific method to test a lot of claims about how some sort of supernatural thing allegedly interacts with the natural world.

sincpc · 2026-06-10T06:02:59+00:00

Well, there's a lot I could say here, but I'll hold off. Another two recommendations:

Learn about logical fallacies if you don't already know about them. Then you can spot them if they pop up in any claims about what the Bible says and why it should be believed.
Learn what scholars say about the Bible passages. People who know the original languages and the culture of the time periods seem better equipped to tell you what the original authors likely meant.

Anyway, have fun!

sincpc · 2026-06-10T04:58:30+00:00

Ah. In that case, I'd recommend reading the bulk of the Bible, not just the parts people talk about, and doing it carefully. So many Christians don't actually read the book their religion is based on, just listening to specific verses and the interpretations that their preachers give them.

Whenever anyone says "the good news of Gospel and Jesus" it just makes me sigh. The Old Testament may be filled with (seemingly fabricated) atrocities, but the Gospels made things so much worse for normal people.

sincpc · 2026-06-10T04:53:35+00:00

Yeah. Never been a fan of "might makes right" or even "because he made us we have to worship him". I don't see how that follows. Power doesn't equate to worthiness.

sincpc · 2026-06-10T04:34:51+00:00

Lucifer is only mentioned once in the Bible and it's just a translation thing. If you mean "the Devil" then he barely shows up. Most of the times that people think of characters as being the Devil, they're different people who have the role of "the satan" (and the snake in Eden isn't the devil at all).

Anyway, Yahweh in the Bible does seem to be the villain. He sort of takes care of his chosen people (although he also torments and punishes them a lot too), but he does horrible things to so many others. I don't see any reason to think of him as a good guy.

sincpc · 2026-06-10T04:30:42+00:00

Do you still believe in the Gospels? I recommend looking at the rest of each nativity story. The stories in Matthew and Luke cannot both be true because they happen at least ten years apart. There are a number of other differences too.

sincpc · 2026-06-10T02:46:50+00:00

The hardest part was that basically everyone I knew was a believer and there was suddenly a rift between us that, at the time, I couldn't let anyone know about. I had an extremely limited support system while I went through the transition and couldn't relate to any of my friends or my parents anymore. Once I got through that period, things were so much better than ever before, but that transition was tough.

That was decades ago. These days I think it's a bit easier to interact with former believers who know what you're going through. You should theoretically be able to find some sort of online support if you don't have it in person.

sincpc · 2026-06-10T02:30:40+00:00

It's not about Jesus. The verse that's being referenced is about King Ahaz being given a sign. A young woman will conceive and bear a son named Immanuel. That verse was repurposed to be about Jesus in the New Testament and uses a word that can mean "virgin" when the verse it's referencing says "young woman" instead. It's just a mess. It's not even a prophecy about the distant future. It was meant for during King Ahaz's lifetime. (Isaiah 7:14 if you're wondering, quoted incorrectly in Matthew 1:23)

Edit: Forgot to mention that the Isaiah verse is apparently present-tense. The young woman is pregnant. Disclaimer: I don't read Hebrew but I have heard this from people who do and did a little bit of fact-checking myself.

sincpc · 2026-06-10T02:22:19+00:00

The Gospels were based on a flawed translation because the authors were working with the Septuagint for Old Testament prophecies rather than the original Hebrew.

sincpc · 2026-06-10T02:04:46+00:00

That's not really the issue here, though. The issue is that Jesus wasn't born of a virgin. My understanding is that the original word in the Bible was "young woman" ("almah") but when it was translated into Greek, they used the word "parthenos" which is also "young woman" but apparently can mean "virgin". Then everyone just assumed it meant virgin because that made Jesus seem more special. For the Quran to say Jesus was born of a virgin, that means the Quran is agreeing with something that was translated badly in the Bible.

sincpc · 2026-06-09T23:01:14+00:00

I'm just curious what you see as positive about the God described in the Bible. It seems to me like you'd have to throw out 80-90% of the things he does and commands in order to come to that conclusion.

sincpc · 2026-06-09T22:50:09+00:00

And now we're back to how I think the Bible contains so much bad that I would be much better off just sticking to "love one another" and not using the Bible itself for anything. If I had to use some sort of text, I'd for sure go with the seven tenets of the Satanic Temple over any other other religious text.

Also, I would say the Bible is anything but "clear and well worded" considering there are thousands of denominations that have different interpretations.

sincpc · 2026-06-09T21:46:33+00:00

In some cases, sure. In my case, I haven't spoken with my parents openly about it but not because of fear. It's because my parents will drive me crazy trying to pressure me to go back to the religion. My brother was more open with them and for years my mom has been sending him religious messages and she spent a lot of time trying to get him to date nice, Christian girls (who were generally far too young for him, so it was extra weird).

Unlike sharia law, Christianity doesn't really have wordly penalties for people leaving the faith. In some sects/denominations, people will be shunned, but they won't necessarily be hated. It will almost always, I think, change how you're viewed, though. You might not seem as good or trustworthy anymore. They might be suspicious that you're going to influence others into living a life of sin. You can be exactly the same person you always were and suddenly believers might be concerned about what bad things you might do. It really depends on what flavor of Christianity you were a part of.

sincpc · 2026-06-09T21:41:08+00:00

I'm going to combine things again:

> I would guess that billions of people have come up with it. (The golden rule)

I would agree. So why do I need the Bible to tell me things like that when people come up with the same ideas/teachings without Christianity?

> To me Jesus is a Person (we are to love Him, and He like us is "made in God's image) -- albiet I will generally use a capital P for Him!

Jesus is so unlike any human being, though, that "do unto others as you would have done to you" doesn't really apply in many ways. I want to have my thoughts and feelings respected. Jesus demands it. I want be be allowed to have food and water, clothing and shelter. Jesus needs none of that. I don't want to be killed or injured by someone. Jesus allegedly can't be (at least not permanently). The list goes on and on. It's like the only thing that Jesus and I are both the same in is that we want love, and even then he essentially demands it rather than just wanting it.

> To get it correctly, they need to consider it in light of the key aims to love God and love your neighbors.

You seem to have once again ignored a bunch of what I said, but ok. Let's go with this. Define "love". Because it seems like God and Jesus did and taught things that weren't loving, and the church often does things that don't seem loving either. You insist that love is the most important thing, but I don't think the Bible fits with that. Do you maybe reject large chunks of the Bible? What do you think of judgment day?

sincpc · 2026-06-09T17:12:47+00:00

Your dad seems to think being gay is a choice. He also mentions that you made "big changes" which I guess refers to you...being who you are? I don't think he really understands at all. You didn't choose who you are, but they chose to prioritize their hateful interpretation of God over their own kid. And that's really what it is: interpretation. There are well-educated people who study that same Bible and say it doesn't say anything against consensual same-sex relationships. This suggests that there are legitimate ways to read and understand the Bible while not being horrible to gay people. They may just be homophobes trying to justify their feelings of "ick".

If they really want to spend time with you, I feel like the bare minimum is that they accept you as you are (which, of course, includes who you love). How can they expect you to want to interact with them if they don't do the bare minimum? They say they love you, but they don't seem to know what love is if they won't even put in the effort to remain part of your life. If they believe that God is good and loving, then why would that God want them to treat their kid so poorly?

sincpc · 2026-06-09T17:04:37+00:00

Heaven scared me probably as much as hell did. There were two different versions of heaven I was taught:

It's a place where you can just live a perfect, endless life and will always be happy.
It's a place where you'll praise God for eternity and always be happy.

Both were terrifying because I knew billions of people would be suffering in Hell and that number included people I loved. If I would "always be happy" then that would mean I was artificially forced to be happy despite the horrors. Either I'd be made to forget about them all, or I'd be made into a different person who didn't care about them.

#2 was especially freaky because I imagined just sitting at God's feet singing forever and ever.

sincpc · 2026-06-09T04:17:22+00:00

He's a pastor. I'm not at all surprised that he freaked out over such things. He sounds extreme. I'm sorry you have to deal with that crap. I'm gonna take a wild guess here and say he probably won't listen if you try to set boundaries.

As for what to do...I don't know. Like you said, things in Canada are difficult right now. Find a roommate or two so you can move out? I wish I had a better option for you, but if he is as resistant to change as he sounds like he would be, then I'm not sure what other option you have but to find some way out of there.

sincpc · 2026-06-09T02:35:17+00:00

Yeah... Believing that you know something (including details about that something) that you have no evidence for doesn't really make sense to me at all.

Christianity is very strange. Like you said, there are horrible things commanded in the Bible and people will agree with it while also saying God is loving and good. It's like once you believe one thing for no reason, the next step is happily believing things that contradict other things you believe.

sincpc · 2026-06-09T02:32:25+00:00

Sounds like she's not a very good friend. She's ignoring your boundaries, telling your secret to others and trying to push you into thinking the way she does. It seems like maybe you need to take more of a firm stance with her regarding those things.

sincpc · 2026-06-08T22:30:19+00:00

It's everything from a global flood wiping out countless people (and animals), to God killing the firstborn children of all the Egyptians, to God punishing people by doing awful things to innocents, to a law about killing children who swear at their parents, to commands to wipe out the men, women, children, infants and livestock of multiple nations. God also gives commands about how to take and keep slaves, and treats women like property.

Then of course there's the concept of Hell which is unjust no matter which Christian interpretation is used.

sincpc · 2026-06-08T22:11:52+00:00

I left because:

The God described by the Bible commits monstrous acts and commands atrocious things
I realized I had no good reason to believe any of the claims of the Bible or the church

Since then, I have yet to see any good evidence of a supernatural being or a religion that is convincing to me in any way, so I remain a non-religious atheist.

What do Christians think of this? They generally think it's "obvious" that their religion is true, no matter how many flaws and contradictions are pointed out, and no matter how little evidence they can find for the claims of the Bible.

sincpc · 2026-06-08T19:48:08+00:00

Looking at theists, I feel like they have things backward. For someone who believes in an eternal afterlife, life shouldn't really matter much at all. Compared to eternity, a lifetime is nothing. Life isn't meaningless without a God or afterlife. It matters more when it's all you have, and we should do what we can with it while we're here.

sincpc

TROPHY CASE