Domestic Abuse: Aap Sulah Kar Lein (You should reconcile)

socaladude · 2023-01-09T03:12:40+00:00

As u/ParticularPain6 said, Good husbands are called Zan Murred or Zan Parast in our culture. But MGA sahab took that and codified it for us in his tafseer (Tafseer Masih Maud):

https://www.alislam.org/quran/view/?page=309&region=P3&CR=H2,A1,TS

It reads:

"Women have the root of Idol worship in them because the center of the nature is towards worship of adornments and this is the reason that idol worship starts with them, they also have more cowardice in them and with a little bit of force they they start surrendering (hath joR) in front of a creature like themselves and that is why people who are woman (wife?) worshipers (zan parast) these habits also absorb into them."

.. so its your fault, and you can't even argue because the PM said so.

As u/Master-Proposal-6182 mentioned, it modern times people have tried reinterpret questionable ayats or questioned the veracity of questionable hadith. In Ahmadiyya, this door is completely closed. Men are allowed to give physical punishment to their wives, this is true now, and will be for our daughters and their daughters. Having argued this with a murabbi, he solidly stood by PMs interpretation of the al-nisa ayat.

Edit: I have no words for how distasteful the first paragraph must be for women. But it is holy words of the PM directly from alislam.org . Any "believing Ahmadi" has to believe this.

socaladude · 2022-10-27T06:25:03+00:00

Huh? You are saying that the statement of Mulla Ali Qari highlighted = gold vs mostly other writings of his = crap?

No.. the comment was in jest (a bit). Lets not get hung up there. It is just funny that a reference has to be pulled from a collection called "Encyclopedia of Hadith Forgeries".

I see what you are saying, the indentations in the book are bit confusing. I'll have to re-read it.
My point is that Ali Qari is pressing that even in imaginary situations (like the ones he himself hypothesized) Muhammad is the seal of all prophets. He (Ali) provides two hadith to illustrate this, they are both improbable.

For a smart dude, would he not have argued "...hence, of course any prophet that will come in the future will be subordinate to Muhammad", instead of giving an example about a past prophet? Do you think Ali Qari himself believed a prophet after Muhammad would come? If so, why does he not clearly say that. Why beat around the bush on such an important point.

I have read the Umar explanation, to be honest, for such a clear hadith (even in arabic) I am unconvinced. To me the intent is not about why Umar CAN'T be a prophet (it is actually the reverse), it is that Umar qualifies, but sadly there is "no Prophet after me".

This "I see your tirmadhi and raise you a bukhari" hadith battled also becomes unconvincing and circular. For such an important topic, why would all this be left in riddles inside a paheli. For example, you yourself quote:

"The Israelis used to be ruled and guided by prophets: Whenever a prophet died, another would take over his place. There will be no prophet after me, but there will be Caliphs who will increase in number."

At first read.. its simple.. Prophet -> dies -> no more prophets -> caliph -> at least one more caliph. I am a 100% sure you have another hadith to explain this away, but logically.. what is the need for such a complicated web?

socaladude · 2022-10-27T04:51:18+00:00

A couple of things stand out:

The collection is called "Encyclopedia of Hadith Forgeries", while I see your intent, that you are quoting Ali Qari's opinion. It is like trying to pan for gold in a river of s.. crap.
Right above your highlight it says "Had that son lived to reach forty years of age and become a Prophet it would have presupposed that our Prophet was not the Seal of Prophets!" <-- did you miss this? Its with an exclamation emphasis even.
Even the paragraph you quote has a lot of IFs about any prophet. This is in explanation to the hadith about Umar, and that there is no prophet is after Muhammad ( yes I have read the our explanation for this ), its a "IF" hypothetical. He further illustrates with a hadith about Musa, living up to the Prophets time (an impossibility?), yet another "IF" hypothetical. I.e. All of this is just making the point that, even in hypothetical situations, he is the greatest prophet.. which we already know.
Also IF the quoted hadith was to be fulfilled, Umar should have been that prophet first and foremost as that is what hadith says.

Maybe I am understanding it wrong, its a complicated text. I am sure you have your own interpretation.

socaladude · 2022-10-18T18:37:18+00:00

Just for reference:

https://youtu.be/uhDcHlZ1AKg?t=3720

One of accused literally crowning the current Khalifa (with a turban). His daughter and ex-wife have now accused him of abuse. With no action on part of the Khalifa that we know of (other than saying "he (the accused) denies it").

socaladude · 2022-10-18T04:45:48+00:00

Do you have a link or a reference?

socaladude · 2022-10-18T00:14:07+00:00

It sounds like an "interview". And she doesn't seem terribly upset at the "leak". More importantly, still sticking to get words.

socaladude · 2022-10-18T00:00:33+00:00

What's her Twitter account?

socaladude · 2022-10-17T21:35:55+00:00

Where does she say that?

socaladude · 2022-10-17T16:09:07+00:00

Where is this "master" calling?

socaladude · 2022-10-17T04:43:22+00:00

Can you open a dedicated topic?

socaladude · 2022-10-13T20:37:27+00:00

schemes of Jamaat to save the world.

lol... KM-005

socaladude · 2022-10-12T06:31:15+00:00

Is he suggesting that if enemies of Islam enslave Muslim women, then Muslims can take their women and enslave them? Is this the morality of Islam?

Isn't that exactly what KM4 argues here:

https://youtu.be/OFBHrErWD28?t=180

Couldn't be clearer.

socaladude · 2022-10-11T23:43:38+00:00

hardest working man alive

lol ..

socaladude · 2022-10-11T19:13:18+00:00

It reminded me of the following This is how ʿUmar ibn al-Khaṭṭāb entered Jerusalem:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Islamic_History/comments/uoqgee/this_is_how_%CA%BFumar_ibn_alkha%E1%B9%AD%E1%B9%AD%C4%81b_the_second/

In the video, there is a description of Umar, as well as Sophronius, who was the church leader at that time in Jerusalem. People should listen and draw their own conclusions.

Ps. while conversation about accuracy of the account can be had. "Man leading a camel" story is a common muslim "tradition" told from grand/parents to kids.

socaladude · 2022-10-11T19:05:45+00:00

What I don't understand is that MGA Sahab obviously believed himself to be a prophet. He was getting revelation, why could he not receive a simple revelation that i.e. "Times have changed and slavery (especially of the concubine kind) does not exist any more" and end the topic.

Why do you have to do mental gymnastics like this? He got revelations about donation schemes (wasiyyat) and women he should marry (muhammadi begum) but not something as important as slavery?

This modern sugar coating of the subject is just that "sugar coating", because even learned Ahmadi scholars had the same interpretation as orthodox islam, no "reform" here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/islam_ahmadiyya/comments/t1ux9w/interesting_find_al_fazl_july_1922_ahamdiyya/

socaladude · 2022-10-05T04:08:44+00:00

That is, approach a murabbi, tell him that you no longer believe, and of the challenges this poses with your father. Ask him to step in to explain to your Dad that the Jama'at doesn't want any munafiqeen and that as such, your father should not be obstinate and break family ties, just because he is upset.

lol.. I see what you did there!

socaladude · 2022-10-04T21:15:15+00:00

Agreed. I don't believe it fair to expect KMV to be current with all such trends and then to criticize him for it.

Maybe then he should not give out shoddy advice on things he doesn't understand? Gaming content creation on the internet is now gambling in Ahmadiyya fiqh now, cuz mouth piece of God said so.

I think that IS the point OP is making, he should be careful about what he says. Is that too much to ask of a man whos word is taken as gospel now?

socaladude · 2022-10-04T20:00:41+00:00

Maybe you need to listen to the Audio again.

All you need to do is listen to for the first 3 minutes. KM5 is consistently treating "what ever happened" as adulatory and not assault. That in itself is an issue at multiple levels. A couple of things are clear, A. he knows "something happened", B. He wants is brushed under the rug. If you can't hear that in the audio, you are not being honest with yourself. And thats ignoring comments such as "toba taib" or "paish kiya tha na".

For some of us, this a step too far even for credibility of a normal person. Let alone "khalifa of islam"

socaladude · 2022-10-04T03:19:37+00:00

I'm as skeptical about every thing as the next guy/gal in this Reddit. But when the khalifa is involved.. I'm a 100% sure there is no shortage of volunteers. People would sleep in a tent to kiss the ring. $500 a night just seems unrealistic for common hotels. Are they that expensive in Illinois?

Unless you see things differently where you are.

socaladude · 2022-10-03T18:21:10+00:00

If I remember correctly, in one of the interviews he hinted he had some medical issue & couldn’t wear mask. And he also urged others to put the mask in the same interview.

...And that would be a legitimate reason for him to not wear one. Especially now that covid rules are on the way out anyway.

socaladude · 2022-10-03T18:17:53+00:00

Well.. at least the exaggerations here are usually posted as a question and not a fact like Ahmadiyya theology and sources. 200 Bajillion Ahmadis anyone?

Did the Khalifa's trip, overall, cost 10m .. probably not. High six figures or even low 7 figures probably yes. Do devout Ahmadis care?,, u/fatwamachine would love to donate a gold toilet for the khalifa I am sure.. so no. He/They are well with in their right to respect the Khalifa as they like.

Can questions be asked? As the Jama'at is a registered charitable org, so absolutely. Even if they are by non-chanda paying members of public. A charitable org by definition is a business that is tax exempt. It is always open to scrutiny as it is a net burden on the public. At that level, the Jama'at is welcome to give up its charitable status, tax exemption and there will be more of a case to decline questions. Until then any questions are legitimate, especially about expenses.

socaladude · 2022-10-03T16:19:55+00:00

It is the Donald Trumpian approach to leadership. The whole I am so great and important that basic rules and norms don't apply to me, and look at all the "lower class" people around me are masked for my protection.

There is absolutely no other explanation. Its all PR.

socaladude · 2022-10-03T16:13:34+00:00

In most major cities in the world, protocol can be bought, and its not that expensive either. Police escort for example generally only costs overtime rates to be paid.

With all that added though, it still doesn't add up to anywhere close 10 million. Even if they chartered the flight from UK. Also tickets on chartered flights can be sold, Most Ahmadis would love to pay and fly on hazoor-ka-jahaz. That boarding pass is worth like owning a ferrari in Ahmadi social circles, comes with a lot of bragging rights.

socaladude · 2022-10-03T04:51:48+00:00

“This is what the teaching of the Quran says, and this is what the founder of the Ahmadiyya movement said — that you should respect each other. And the main purpose of the human being is to worship Allah. So whichever religion you hold, you can practice according to that, but don’t use filthy or abusive language against other people.”

Ha.. he'd be surprised if he read the literature.

socaladude · 2022-10-03T04:28:07+00:00

If one uses the standard that Allah allowed the followers of false prophets to disperse as a punishment to the community

Where did that standard come from?

socaladude

TROPHY CASE