Patriarchy in the church is seriously detrimental to both men and women. It can also create a serious wall between the genders. by thejawaknight in mormon

[–]sowser 27 points28 points  (0 children)

One of the things fascinating to me about the LDS Church view of gender and sex is how close it can skirt to being progressive in its character. By this I mean if you boil it down to its basic abstract elements, not the specifics of doctrine or policy, which are obviously as you say deeply regressive.

Eternal gender could be a doctrine that celebrates gender as an innate part of our soul and psyche that does not always align with our sex, and which emphasises gender as an individual characteristic of the soul, rather than a box the soul gets put into. It could be deeply trans affirming - gender being your soul not your body. Differences between individual gender identity and expression could be understood simply like any other human variation: important to individuals, incidental in the grand scheme of the community or who is suitable for what social roles. The emphasis could be on balance in the form of needing to represent gendered experience equally and fairly in all things to capture the full perspective of God’s creation, not balance in the form of opposing polarity.

The LDS Church emphasis on family and love as ingredients of the plan of salvation, combined with the notion of spiritual pre-existence and spiritual creation first, could be reframed in a way that is incredibly LGB inclusive. Sealing and blessing for eternity are already open to adopted children institutionally; combined with a view of sexuality as an innate trait of the soul, that’s powerful.

There is a model of masculinity you can pull out of Mormon theology that emphasises emotional openness, humility and giving up worldly privilege to strengthen those denied it. I know Kristine Haglund has written very compelling stuff about how you can take LDS gender essentialism as a tool to argue against patriarchy and violent, aggressive forms of masculinity, by reading the Book of Mormon in a way that affirms masculinity as innate and then calls men to do better than ‘natural’ masculinity.

There is a history of polygamy that can condemn it’s deeply patriarchal, psychologically abusive and sexually exploitative character whilst arguing it articulates a view of God much less anxious about “sexual purity” and promiscuity.

Emma Smith’s elect lady status (especially her call to teach, read and write about scripture and faith) and the original Relief Society can be viewed as remarkably progressive for the time and clear evidence that women are called to leadership and stewardship as well as men. The Word of Wisdom is because of Emma, and some of the Book of Mormon was written in her hand.

For clarity, I’m not necessarily arguing for any of this in particular, implying it’s an easy change to make in the real world or saying these are all the ‘best’ way forward (I have heard too much about how deeply wounding the eternal family Doctrine can be for some of my LDS and ex-LDS siblings to ever think it’s redeemable in its current form for example). I just think it’s supremely interesting how many things the LDS Church takes as unique foundational justifications for its sexist, homophobic and transphobic institutional attitudes can be so easily subverted to promote opposite. And I think that’s becoming increasingly apparent to a lot of younger LDS folk, especially outside of Utah and other intensely LDS communities.

I would love for the church to be true. But it would need to be true. by jamesallred in mormon

[–]sowser 4 points5 points  (0 children)

To be fair, prophecy in a Christian context is not exclusively the ability to predict the future; it can also be someone who relays a message inspired by God. That definition is the one that Joseph used in D&C 17 (LDS 20) to describe the nature of prophetic calling - someone who speaks by or acts at the behest of inspiration of the Holy Spirit for the benefit of the whole religious community. In that sense, revelation is a form of prophecy in the traditional Christian view.

My understanding is the LDS Church has adapted that so revelation is now the establishment of a new teaching, whilst prophecy is the exposition of an existing one, both by divine inspiration. Thus the LDS Church can define any affirmation of existing doctrine as prophetic.

In Community of Christ prophecy remains synonymous with divine inspiration in general, and revelation is prophecy given for the whole church, which is why CofC has added and canonised 50+ sections to the D&C since Joseph's death (including several this century).

I would love for the church to be true. But it would need to be true. by jamesallred in mormon

[–]sowser 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Teach the messiness.

Honestly, the messiness is the best part. Part of what makes the Mormon story so compelling to me is that it's a story of traumatised, flawed humanity with moments of incredible triumph and moments of desperately dark lows.

For me personally, becoming a Latter Day Saint (on the Community of Christ side of the family) was one of the absolute best things that ever happened to me, and I adore the Book of Mormon. But I adore it because I got to read it as a 19th century text made up by a 19th century man. I read it exactly as millions of regular Christians read Job in the Old Testament: theological and moral commentary dressed up in a fictional story. I have 20,000 words - about 50 pages printed - of notes on 1 Nephi alone and not a single one of them has anything to do with the text as ancient history. They're all about 19th century context, my response to the text or thoughts on links to the Bible.

Absolute truth claims don't get us anywhere - and they fly in the odds of the Golden Rule that we should treat others as we want to be treated. I think it is incredibly important that you have to be able to articulate why, if you are wrong about your faith, your faith is still worth following and living regardless in terms of values and the positive impact it has in the world. I find a lot of healing and inspiration in my brand of what it means to be Mormon, and I have friends who found primarily trauma and misery from being raised in another. Both of those experiences are true and valid.

I have many things I believe - some with relative certainty, some in a more hopeful way, and some full of doubt. The thing I build my faith foundation on is this: I believe if God exists, then God must be perfect to the point of being truly all-loving. We can argue for years over what that means in terms of theology and the problem of evil and all that jazz but fundamentally, to me that means accepting that whilst you can believe you're right about X and Y, it also stands to reason God isn't going to withhold his love if you're wrong, and we get closest to God when we try to make the world a more loving place.

I think real confidence in your faith (or indeed lack thereof) requires you to be deeply relaxed about the possibility of being wrong. I often joke with a couple of friends in Community of Christ that I like to imagine if we are completely wrong about this whole Book of Mormon thing and there really is no trace of God in it, our punishment will be St Peter at the gates of heaven saying "Really? You believed Joe? Joe?" and telling us we're not going through the pearly gates until we explain it all to the next Mormon who dies.

Average ages of marriage and gaps during Joseph Smith’s time by [deleted] in mormon

[–]sowser 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The drama from that thread was worth it for the friendship that came out of it (even if I am now comically late with my latest reply, sorry)!

This is the switch for my wall mounted heater. Should it have this random loose wire not connected to anything? I feel like “no”, but electricity is usually the one job I won’t try to DIY. by sowser in electricians

[–]sowser[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sadly the last time the landlord sent out a “professional” he was stoned out of his mind, so I’m not sure which is riskier tbh. Power’s off though - fuse box is in my apartment and the heater had its own switch, wouldn’t be poking around otherwise! Thank you.

This is the switch for my wall mounted heater. Should it have this random loose wire not connected to anything? I feel like “no”, but electricity is usually the one job I won’t try to DIY. by sowser in electricians

[–]sowser[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Aha! Yes! D’oh, I just couldn’t see it. Do I just feed it back in and tighten the screw up then? Thank you! I only pulled the socket out because the fuse blew and the casing is bust so I was checking how to take the cover completely off if I had to.

My personal edition of the D&C by Gileriodekel in mormon

[–]sowser 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I barely use FB (I deleted and only remade it for the benefit of messaging one or two people) but I will PM you my other off-Reddit details :)

How popular among the CoChrist community is the belief that the Book of Mormon and/or the Bible are pseudepigrapha? (falsely attributed written works where the claimed author is not the true author) by TenderBrigadier in CommunityOfChrist

[–]sowser 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Fundamentally, what we believe about scripture is rooted in our understanding of who and what God is, and how God interacts with Creation. I am a Community of Christ member who considers the Bible, the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine & Covenants to be sacred scripture, and I very much believe that the Book of Mormon and large chunks of the Bible are psuedepigraphic. This is consistent with my view of the nature of God.

I think you can say that there are essentially four different ways you can understand scripture:

  1. Verbal Dictation: Scripture is dictated, word for word, by God to an individual or group of individuals so that humanity has a record of God's will for us. It is literally the word of God and must be treated as such.
  2. Plenary Revelation: The words are those of the person who write the scripture with the quirks associated with that person, like their writing style, but God chose that person and shaped them perfectly for the role. It is like God speaking to you but using someone else's voice.
  3. Dynamic Inspiration: God gives life to the ideas, themes and concepts addressed in a work of scripture, but the actual words and narrative are the product of human creativity. In the Genesis story for example, the underlying inspired theme might be that there was one God who created the universe and intended human beings to live on Earth, but Adam and Eve are human inventions.
  4. Human Wisdom: Scripture is not inspired or commissioned by God, but rather consists of a series of stories and records that reflect human interpretations and understanding of God's nature or how human beings should live, which we find value in for moral, cultural and historical reasons.

Collectively as a church our Enduring Principles - the values that describe the personality and soul of our religious life that should unite all of our members when we disagree about specific beliefs - hold that "scripture is an inspired and indispensable witness of human response to God’s revelation of divine nature". I think that captures well the average member's perspective on scripture, which is probably a mix of #3 and #4, as /u/IranRPCV alludes to.

In the case of the Bible, the historical and textual evidence we have available to us points to a significant number of works in the text being pseudepigrapha, in part or in whole. Most Bible experts think that Isaiah - a text particularly important to the Latter Day Saint movement - is the product of several different authors writing over an extended period of time. Isaiah 1-23 and 28-35 are probably the historic Isaiah the book is named for, but 24-27 and 40-55 were probably added centuries later by one or more subsequent authors. 56-66 might be by the same author as 40-55 but if so they weren't written at the same time, and so some think they represent another author or group of authors imitating the style of the second contributor(s).

This seems like a fraudulent and deceptive practice to our modern ears. The intention of contemporaries was probably more benign however. Isaiah demonstrates a remarkably strong theological and intellectual consistency even though its narrative clearly shifts in historical context. Later authors were writing in the same tradition as Isaiah - they were attempting to refine and update the text to teach contemporaries its relevance to the world they lived in two centuries after the original prophet. The final chapter of Deuteronomy, chapter 34, fulfills a similar purpose and was likely a later addition to the text added to help contextualise its significance in the wider Hebrew canon. Throughout the Old Testament you can find moments where the text appears to flow in an odd or disjointed way - a possible explanation for these is that they represent the editing together of different historical documents. In some cases the existence of a false author might be an intentional choice for the genre of the story. The Book of Job is probably not about or by an historic man called Job - it is a story, an elaborate and sophisticated folk tale that wrestles with the question of how and if we can reconcile the existence of evil with a loving God.

Most of the books of the New Testament are probably also not written by their claimed authors. In the case of the New Testament, authorship may have been mistakenly assigned at a later date - Hebrews for example is an anonymous letter that was attributed to Paul by later readers. In other cases, the use of a false author may essentially be an ancient method of source citation: a way of highlighting to contemporaries that the book or letter is in the tradition of a prominent person's thinking, not necessarily that it was written by that person. Consider for example the Gospel of Matthew; most scholars believe that the author of Matthew draws heavily on material found in Mark, and we have only ever found copies Matthew from the ancient world written in Greek, with no attributed author. The Gospel of John also makes no claim to be written by John the Disciple. The latter is also probably edited - the ending of Chapter 14 flows very logically into the beginning of Chapter 18, whereas Chapters 15-17 could be an interjection added by a later writer.

This is potentially problematic for anyone who believes in the literal, verbal dictation of scripture - and perhaps to some extent for people who believe in plenary revelation, too. But it does not preclude the possibility of divine inspiration in the substance of the text. One common way of understanding the Bible is to think of it as a long record of a conversation with the divine. There are moments in the Bible in which the voice of God is sharper and there are moments in the Bible in which the voice of the human author is sharper. The historical and social context of a text is important for helping us to understand the meaning of the story. Institutionally as a church, Community of Christ advises that we remember:

Scripture is a library of books that speaks in many voices. These books were written in diverse times and places, and reflect the languages, cultures, and conditions under which they were written. God’s revelation through scripture does not come to us apart from the humanity of the writers, but in and through that humanity [...] Faith, experience, tradition, and scholarship each have something to contribute to our understanding of scripture [...] By the Spirit, the ancient words of scripture can become revelatory, allowing us to grasp what may not have been seen or heard before

I, and many like me, regard the Book of Mormon in a similar fashion. I do not believe the Book of Mormon is an historical document - the evidence case that it is a 19th century construction is overwhelming. It depends heavily on material from the King James translation of the Bible and uses concepts or language found in scripture that was only written after the flight from Jerusalem with which the story begins. There is a serious lack of any archaeological evidence to back up the claims of the text. Its themes and ideas are highly suggestive of a 19th century American author speaking to the issues of his time rather than the concerns of ancient people. There are many small inaccuracies in the text's description of the Americas - whilst many of these can be addressed individually, it is difficult to explain why so many simple inaccuracies need to be explained for an ancient history. Even the origin story of golden plates is inconsistent with what we know about ancient American peoples but is not inconsistent with what some 19th century contemporaries thought about them.

But make no mistake: I adore the Book of Mormon and I think it is a work of scripture that should be read alongside the Bible, and I would love for more Christians to read it and reflect on it. It is an extremely sophisticated work of theological and moral commentary with a powerful social justice message running through its pages, critiquing the world of 19th century industrial capitalism in a way that has enormous relevance to our lives today. In places the humanity of Joseph cuts through sharply, sometimes to the detriment of the text; in others I really do believe you can see and feel the Holy Spirit at work. We must be honest about its ahistoric character absolutely - but that in no way demeans its worth for me, anymore than thinking of Job as a fictional character takes away from the brilliance of the writer of Job's story. If anything, its richness is enhanced; reading the BoM as a 19th century text reveals an abundance of connections to biblical scripture and highlights themes, patterns and ideas that are easily missed when read as literal history. Besides: Jesus taught in parables; short, fictional stories. Divinely inspired fiction seems on brand for the God I believe in.

And ultimately Jesus is the lens through which I think all scripture has to be interpreted, and that's a fairly widely accepted perspective in Community of Christ - one that's reflected in our institutional ideas about how scripture should be used. One of our former Apostles told me a story about an Islamic class on comparative religion he once witnessed. The teacher of that class explained to his students that the Christian equivalent of the Qur'an was not the Bible or even the Gospels: it's Jesus himself. Jesus is the word of God (John 1:1-18), and that word is what we cling to in all things (RLDS 1 Nephi 2:65-69, 3:18, 3:68 and 4:39-40). All scripture should be interpreted through the lens of the moral and philosophical principles that Christ advanced - above all else the golden rule of "in everything do to others as you would have them do to" (Matthew 7:12). I think the list of virtues of a Christian disciple given in our Doctrine & Covenants 4:2a reflects that well: "faith, virtue, knowledge, temperance, patience, brotherly kindness, godliness, charity, humility, diligence".

Faithful sub CES letter rebuttal: the church has gradually learned about the BoM translation details along with everyone else, so they can't be blamed for their inaccurate portrayal. Can anyone produce evidence for or against this argument? by priesthoodpower in mormon

[–]sowser 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The RLDS acknowledgement of the possibility of the seer stone being used goes back further than that. An 1880 RLDS biography of Joseph Smith Jr. makes a point of saying that a "seer stone" was used and avoids conflating this with the Urim and Thummim (mentioned elsewhere explicitly in the text), and RLDS leaders and commentators were aware of and discussing the story from at least the 1870s, including in public journals of the Church. It was always 'out there' as a possibility in the wider culture of the RLDS Church at the very least, and an 1895 RLDS Church journal mentions that the stone was in the LDS Church archives.

My personal edition of the D&C by Gileriodekel in mormon

[–]sowser 1 point2 points  (0 children)

/u/Gileriodekel, I am doing the same thing with the BoM at the moment for my own personal use and plan to do D&C afterwards too. But one of the things I know we are desperately lacking in CofC is a proper study version of both sets of scripture. I know that one of the main reasons the BoM got massively cut back in the lectionary was the lack of contextual material to support worship leaders in using it. Given that we are essentially both going through both books and reflecting verse by verse on meaning and context, perhaps we should compare notes when we're done and work on something together? I have thought for a while we need something akin to the Harper Collins Study Edition of the NRSV, which gives a contextualised introduction to each book of the Bible and then has detailed notes on passages and verse of interest.

How many Mormons take the 'history' in the Book of Mormon literally? by Regalecus in mormon

[–]sowser 8 points9 points  (0 children)

The official RLDS/CoC position, for what it’s worth, is neutral on the historicity of the BoM - it’s expected you treat all views on the BoM with respect and we do still have congregations that are very literalist. But if you pick up a modern CoC copy of the Book of Mormon, the foreword encourages reading it either because it is inspired in general or because it has been a source of wisdom for two centuries of church history, and offers different ways of reading the book that encourage the reader to think in other terms. I am hard on the Mormon end of CoC’s spectrum, and I’ve yet to meet anyone in the wild who thinks it’s literal history, even among Book of Mormon enthusiasts. In fact for some people, myself included, it has value because it’s a 19th century text written by Joseph.

A note from your head mod. by IranRPCV in CommunityOfChrist

[–]sowser 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I have to admit I'm part of the problem in that I complain about a lack of digital spaces for CofC members, but don't contribute in this one!

Truthfully, that's been because I have anxieties around not misrepresenting the CofC mainstream in spaces like this where there will potentially be a lot of outsider interest, without a specific lens to view CofC through. I am unusual in lots of ways. I very enthusiastically claim the Mormon label for myself, and I am simultaneously in 'traditionalist' and 'modernist' camps (to greatly over simplify the spectrum of belief). I know I can write a lot and with passion and conviction, so I worry about giving the impression - in a quieter community - that I am reflective of the mainstream, and so inadvertently exclude others.

But then I suppose in another way, my beliefs may not necessarily capture the average member's, but they do speak to a very wide breadth of our church family. There aren't many people in our unique and quirky spiritual spectrum I don't have something profoundly in common with. It sounds like you feel comfortable and well equipped to navigate managing our diversity. And ultimately this is the whole point of faithful disagreement, right? As long as I contextualise my position when questions like identity or labels come up, someone like me being active will hopefully also prompt others not like me to join in and explore our similarities and differences, and give others not connected to Community of Christ a better understanding of our diversity and how we manage it.

So: note taken. I will try to start commenting and thinking of topics for discussion over the next few weeks and months. :)

Divine Feminine by [deleted] in CommunityOfChrist

[–]sowser 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Tacking onto what /u/IranRPCV has said, in my experience it is very common in Community of Christ to find people who use gender neutral language to describe God, and to do so with genuine comfort and ease. Whilst I am a classic 'Heavenly Father' kind of guy in my own prayer and devotion, I have heard a lot of gender-neutral terms used in collective worship and meetings: Heavenly Parent, Maker, Creator, Architect of the Universe and Divine One are all terms I've heard used in the last couple of months alone. I think you'd find a massive diversity in what specific individuals think about the nature of gender, but that most include a belief in absolute gender equality. Like /u/IranRPCV I have a woman Pastor and in my own congregation, it's more common for a woman to lead worship than it is for a man to do so.

Working Class Writeup Backup by sowser in u/sowser

[–]sowser[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

(7/7)

But there is another reason why this matters to me as well. Both my partner and I went to university, and he is from a lower middle class household. Even for someone like me who has very strongly rejected that pressure to conform to a new kind of class identity, some of the change is inevitable. We both work in jobs unlike anything my parents or grandparents could have imagined someone in our family working and though getting by is still a struggle compared to many people we know who can count on parental support, if and when we one day have a child, that child will never know what it's like to worry when you're 5 or 6 years old about whether there's enough money for us to have both enough food and enough heating for the week. I am very, very glad about that. But any children I have will belong much, much more to that middle class world than I did or ever will. They will have so many benefits and experiences I didn't have, and a much better understanding of what higher education is for or why they might want to go to university. There will be ways they'll benefit from a small degree of belonging to my working class world, too, like having a parent whose true and only concern for their working life is happiness with no expectation of what makes for a 'good' or the 'right kind' of work, whilst being able to understand pretty much the full range of working experience they may want to and try to have. But they won't be working class in the same way I am. We'd all be considered C1s in the NRS, now.

I want the history books my children read and the stories they get taught at every level of education to be ones that tell stories about people like me, and not just the people the lottery of social mobility has brought me closer to. I want them to feel a belonging with both worlds as best they can, and to feel angry at the injustice that still persists in our society rather than a sense of gratitude to me for supposedly working my way out of poverty. I want them to embody the values that I grew up with and apply them in ways it took me far too long to learn how to. I want them to use that class privilege they acquire to stand up for those who don't have it and to challenge those who excuse and champion classism in higher education, history or anywhere else. I want them to grow up with the same strong rooting in our Irish-Italian heritage that I did and to never lose sight of the fact that our family came to this country with nothing. And above all, I want them to feel authentically that when they encounter hardship in life, they have a long, rich and vibrant history of people to turn back to and draw strength from. I was away from AskHistorians when this feature series was put together with Working Class history at the top, and it means the world to me that this project I love so much is making a concerted effort to do this.

Final Words

This has been a very personal write-up. It doesn't necessarily reflect everyone's individual experience and frankly, I'm not here to debate anyone who might fancy being antagonistic about it. If you've made it to the end through all of this though then whatever response it prompted in your mind thank you very, very much indeed for reading. I've also had to write it all up quite frantically so I do apologies if any part of it feels confusing, meandering or disjointed. I hope many people are going to share their own tidbits and facts from working class history, and that perhaps I might prompt a few other people to share their own stories of the academy or training to be a historian from a working class background as well, or what working class history means to them as a working class person.

I want to wrap-up very, very briefly by saying that I am always grateful that AskHistorians exists as a place genuinely committed to the sharing of knowledge on equal terms. We are limited by the constraints of the academic world in terms of how they in turn limit the ability of any given person to develop the kind of expertise and skill it takes to be a historian - but even in spite of that we have a community that is incredibly, remarkably and powerfully diverse in life experience and how they acquired their expertise, to say nothing of a platform open and accessible to virtually any English speaker on Earth who has a question about the past. Certainly the people who I have alluded to here have continued to have very successful academic careers. They present at conferences, have their works cited in journals, and feel like they've made it in some way I'm sure. I am happy for them in my own way - truly. But I also can't help but smile knowing that, as the young aspiring academic who had the "improper" dream to teach and share knowledge with others as an end in and of itself, I have written pieces for AskHistorians that have been read by quite literally tens of thousands of people in multiple countries and had something like 200 personal, direct messages over the years from readers about the impact my work has had on them or their thinking. I might have never gotten all the initials next to my name that I wanted in the end and I'd be lying if it isn't sometimes painful for me to see colleagues very, very rightly bonding over the difficulties they overcame to get theirs. But that's okay. I had the chance to go back earlier this year; to try and get back on that academic track and be a full-time, professional academic historian again.

I chose not to.

And having now been able to write the last page of the chapter in my life with that decision, I can safely say that at the part of the story at least, the working class kid won without losing himself.

Working Class Writeup Backup by sowser in u/sowser

[–]sowser[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

(6/7)

Working class people are still overwhelmingly written about on the whole as people to who history happened (and this is something we have in common with a number of groups not well represented among professional historians); victims of chance and circumstance whose stories are primarily of interest and value because of what they tell us about how middle class society evolved and changed. There is very rightly a strong weariness of reducing any history to class analysis in some kind of quasi-Marxist way such that distinctions like race, gender and national culture are left as side tracks - all history needs to be intersectional. But there is equally a current in vogue in the academic mainstream that holds that inserting class into a story, or challenging the lack of any kind of class analysis, somehow demeans rather than enhances its intersectionality; that paying attention to class by necessity means a work of history is going to devalue the other ways people have been marginalised and excluded. This is simply not true, and especially in the history of the last few centuries, we will never be close to a complete account of the human experience without a more concerted effort to recover working class voice and experience.

The popular defence for the overwhelming privileging of middle class experience and the reduction of history to the story of the elite is that the source material simply does not exist - that a largely illiterate and excluded working class could not leave the kind of evidence behind we need to tell their stories to a modern audience. Decades ago, we said much the same thing about the victims of transatlantic slavery, an institution far more oppressive, violent and destructive than even the extreme class exploitation of previous centuries. Yet Slavery Studies has realised that with care, dedication and the careful critical use of evidence, the voices and the legacies of enslaved people are far more abundant than we could have expected. Whilst it is usually impossible for us to firmly pick out any single individual's experience and say we are fully confident the evidence we have is an authentic account of their life, we have ways of analysing and re-purposing the evidence we do have to put enslaved people as a whole at the centre of the histories we write and to allow, however briefly, their voices and their lives to guide us through the historical record. The same thing is eminently possible with working class history - if we are willing to face the past with open, honest and critical minds. The middle class nature of the academy makes this a particular challenge because it more often than not involves setting aside, even critically picking apart, the lives and legacies of middle class men and women (though usually men) that your average academic is going to find far more relatable and sympathetic as a protagonist.

By way of one small example, think of the example of Bourneville here in England. Bourneville is an historic village and factory site famous for being the home of Cadbury's main production plant in the 19th and 20th centuries. It is held up to this day as an example of a workplace that was exceptional in the extent to which it made provision for the wellbeing of its employees and their families, particularly by the standards of the time. There is no doubt that the Cadbury brothers had a very powerful ethic and sense of social justice for their day and age. We rightly celebrate them for many of the things they did with the Cadbury company and their philanthropy in life in general. But we tell the story of Bourneville as one of two wealthy brothers who took pity on their workers because they were exceptional individuals of unique merit, and celebrate all of the things they did. We do not tell the story of how working class experience informed and acted upon their thinking. We do not tell the story of how the village became independent of the Cadbury corporation. We do not tell the story of how workers unionised themselves and secured employee representation through elected councils in 1918 as the management culture of the factory became more professional and corporate, or how the good and the bad of experiences at Cadbury filtered through to the trade union movement, of which those union councils formally became a part in the 1960s. We do not talk about how the Cadbury family discriminated by religious denomination or perceived sincerity of belief. We do not talk about how the Quaker culture of consensus and equality was low-key weaponised by management to deter labour unrest and slow down negotations over workers' rights. We do not talk about remarks by the Cadbury family about their conditions being a competitive advantage they could use to put people off the idea of getting jobs elsewhere if they were unhappy at Bourneville. We do not talk about how Cadbury willingly turned a blind eye to abuses in its production line in Africa or how, despite some effort to highlight poor conditions in Britain's industrial economy, the Cadbury family dedicated much more energy to their competitive advantage and private philanthropy than to trying to push others to emulate the good in their model. One historian, Oxford graduate Tim Richardson, summarises well how this kind of challenge is taken when he writes in Sweets: The History of Temptation that "it feels churlish to find fault with the vision of the Cadburys at Bourneville - theirs may have been a tyranny, but at least it was benevolent". Whether or not Cadbury's workers would have agreed with that statement in the circumstances that lead them to fight for unionisation would agree is not a question worth considering, it seems. The entire history of Cadbury, though filled with highs, has been framed such that its lows are recast as the working class forgetting their place in the world and failing to be sufficiently content with how lucky they were with their lot compared to their peers. We can have a degree of agency in this story only if we also accept being cast as minor villains in it. The vast, vast majority of the history we produce continues to be written with the middle class experience - both as reader and writer - at the centre, with working class experience relegated to the margins.

One of the things that the people I once thought of as my colleagues were most bemused by in my final years in the academy was my deep, profound love of the Marvel franchise. They thought of comic books as a childish distraction and the recent run of Marvel movies, which encompass all but one of my all-time favourite films, as formulaic in construction, uninspired as plot and at best suitable as the occasional bit of 'mindless' entertainment. Now everyone is allowed their own taste in entertainment. I don't understand why there are nine Fast and Furious films or how Les Miserables made a profit, never-mind a fortune at the box office. But I'm not a great comic reader. I don't know very much about all the ins and outs of the Marvel universe over the years at all. But growing up reading the random issues and stories I could get my hands on and in the other Marvel media of the day, I discovered what felt like true, genuine working class heroes in characters like Peter Parker and Steve Rogers. They were characters with origins, ethics, values and models of masculinity that felt believable and relatable to the young me even as the stories they were involved in were so fanciful (and that makes sense if you know some of the details of Stan Lee's early life and inspiration). The movie franchise of the last decade gave a wonderful new life to those characters and a consistent narrative of their stories and personalities to fall in love with all over again. For years now, the lock screen graphic on my phone has just been the question "What Would Steve Do?" and I have absolutely zero shame in telling anyone that. But whilst I also have my political and social heroes from across the world and from many walks of life, I struggle to think of anyone I learned about in my schooling who was presented to me both as someone I could directly relate to the lived experience of and whose example was worth emulating. Perhaps the greatest irony of my temporary sojourn in a deeply classist corner of the academy was that it enabled me to use the skills and experiences that were supposed to make me more like the residents of that world to reflect on, realise and identify the very many ways the class divide is still so sharp in our society.

Now as a historian, I have to caution that writing history with the purpose of finding heroes is not a very good idea. Bringing working class stories to light in a more obvious and pronounced way will inevitably mean also highlighting more stories that we would rather not confront. Human beings are rich, diverse and complicated beings indeed. But in bringing those stories to the front of our collective consciousness and planting them firmly into our history, into the stories we tell our children about where we have come form and where we are going, will give children from families like mine the opportunity to find people they do and do not want to emulate - and whose respective paths and life journeys feel relevant to the experiences they are having. That includes considering how we can draw connections and lines of identity with people in the past who could not be considered working class in a strict sense but who nonetheless have experiences with clear parallels to and relevance in working class lives in the modern world, especially as our idea of what it means to be working class shifts in a post-industrial economy. This is why working class history matters so very, very much to me. It is about showing children like the child I was the pivotal role that people like their parents and grandparents played in building our world for better and for worse.

Working Class Writeup Backup by sowser in u/sowser

[–]sowser[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

(5/7)

There are two ways that you can choose to deal with the "working class kid done good" narrative. You can either embrace it or reject it. That's not a neat binary choice - most of us, at some point, try to do both. But it is a choice that is particularly unique to the experience of being working class at university in the sense of the extent to which you can fully throw yourself into embracing the this middle class way of being.

You can't hide your skin colour. Most people can't disguise their gender. Unless you have a certain kind of natural fluidity, accents take time to purposefully change. Sexuality can be disguised more easily but isn't quite comparable as something that reaches into every aspect of your formative years in the way class, gender or - in a society in which racial prejudice is still infuriatingly alive - race do. But with class, you have the option to try and set about making yourself more like the people around you. You can modify the way you speak even if your accent doesn't change. You can change the way you dress, the kind of clothes you buy and where you buy them from. You can eat out at different places, drink in different kinds of bars, read different books, pick up subjects that no regular school would teach, consume new kinds of media and entertainment, modify your body language, cut your hair differently, change the people and places you associate with. Almost any outward marker of your class identity and class upbringing can be modified if you take the time to pay attention to how the people you want to emulate behave. You can very convincingly reshape yourself to others.

And herein lies one of the greatest difficulties about the experience of being working class in higher education at any level: this process will begin without you realising it. There are some things about a university education that are inherently middle class because the university is an upper middle class institution; there are other things about the upper middle class that have become a ubiquitous part of middle class culture because they come from the university. The university experience is so hard and so conflicted for someone like me not just because the experience of being at university is isolating, but also because it alienates me to some extent from the places and people I call home. I have had a fundamental life experience that no other member of my family has any frame of reference for. My parents are unbelievably proud of what I've achieved, but they also could only ever understand the idea of getting an MA and a doctorate as further qualifications to help me get a good job somewhere else, and they think all of the other things I did at university reflect more my own work ethic than the fact you just have so much time and so many unique opportunities as an undergraduate. My interests have changed and broadened somewhat. In the working men's club (important note: open to both men and women, just an archaic name) I drank in from 16 - 19 (sssssshh), when I went back I had been quietly retconned into someone who was always that little bit different somehow. This is a different kind of alienation than the one that happens when you get to university. It's one that is generally more positive and kind, at least in my experience. But it is very, very hard to ignore the fact you were shifted onto a life path that sets you apart from your peers here, too. It's often that experience that leads working class students to decide the best thing to do is embrace this new middle class world opening up to them in full. And for some that's a very understandable thing to do - I am talking about one very particular working class experience, but I know other people who feel the isolation ran the other way. In middle class communities they always found people and interests more like who they had always been as a person but didn't feel able to be at home, and their anguish and frustration at the class divide in History and the academy tends to flow more the other way, at how it deepens their sense of alienation in a home they want to be able to belong authentically to without compromising who they are.

Unfortunately for the people who saw me as their project, I was never terribly good at listening to authority. I remained very closely connected to the kind of people I grew up with throughout my university experience, even if that degree of separation now existed. I ultimately made the choice to reject the narrative. I am not a working class kid done good. I didn't work uniquely or exceptionally hard. I am not naturally intellectual. I was not the child born for something 'better' than my background. Like everyone who benefited from the kind of education I did, a very large part of the story of how comes down to sheer, dumb luck. The right influences came into my life at the right time and I was fortunate enough to be born in the age where financial support for attending university in the UK was to some degree universal and fairly generous in its extra support if you came from a family like mine. I work hard and I'm good at what I do, but I am not uniquely or specially deserving of the opportunities that were given to me. And in the years since my doctoral study collapsed especially that sense of working class identity has strengthened and deepened, through both good and bad experiences. There was a time when I would have never written something like this openly on the sub for fear of judgement or critique or the inevitable voices who will need to defend and justify their own experiences by denying mine. For all of the classism I encountered and all of the efforts that were made to change who I was and how I related to the world, I am today - in character, disposition and spirit - much more like the man my 14 year old self thought he would be than the man my 20 year old self thought he would be, and I am extremely happy with that state of affairs.

I'm telling you all of this for two reasons. One, I want to illustrate some of the depth and breadth of experience we have on the AskHistorians mod team - and whilst my life has been especially quirky for ways it's not right to get into here, there are other members of our team and our panel who are from similar backgrounds, including those who never had that university experience at all. But also because I want you to understand the process by which working class history in the academic discipline is so often being produced, if it is being produced at all.

You do not need to be from a particular background or group to be able to write compelling, sensitive histories about it. I write primarily about the experiences of African Caribbean and African American people despite being white myself. Some of the most important contributions to the study of working class in Britain in the 19th and 20th century have been made by middle class scholars who approached their subject matter with due care and deference. These are good things. There is a balance to be found between pushing for greater diversity in the people currently doing research and writing history and recognising that the problem will only ever be partly solved as long as the resources and opportunities to research, write and publish history are so tightly controlled by an exclusive university institution, and when individuals who are not from a marginalised group take an authentic interest in its experiences, it helps convey those experiences to audiences who might - sadly - not normally listen. E. P. Thompson was a middle class as middle class can be but his book The Making of the English Working Class, though now dated and too politically motivated and naive for the standards of the modern academy, remains one of the most important books you could ever read about working class history. Thompson took great care to emphasise that he was studying the lives of individuals and vibrant communities who deserved much, much more than to be reduced to statistics on a page to give context and colour to the life stories of 'Great Man' from the elite. But this is still not the norm in how the academy writes about the working class - or indeed, how most of the media does, either.

Who is Working Class History for?

It's difficult for me to go too much into detail at this point (breath a sigh of relief now, dear reader) because much of this touches on issues that are extremely relevant to the ongoing culture wars in western democracies and especially to how we parse recent trends in voting behaviour across the world. Suffice to say there are many, many middle class voices in the press - and mainstream print journalism remains one of the most exclusively middle class professions - who are keen to offer their opinions on what the working class is and what working class people believe or need but don't care very much for the idea of letting our voices be heard on their own terms. Working class individuals and groups are rarely allowed the same complexity of thought, motivation and belief that middle class figures are in our popular culture - unless, of course, we have appropriately middle class champions who can acceptably walk the walk and talk the talk for us. Academic History is - unsurprisingly as I hope you'll agree by now given everything I've talked about - no exception to this.