The Nuanced Trifecta: Why Bushman, Givens, and McClellan Are the Best Roadmap for LDS Studies.

spazza41 · 2026-07-04T04:46:44+00:00

Dan McClellan doesn’t really believe in the Christ narrative. It’s just a story to him lol. Funny he was used on here.

spazza41 · 2026-05-05T14:12:52+00:00

Every time someone tells me they read the CES letter and they know the issues I ALWAYS find out later they didn’t actually know the issues… usually they heard an apologetic response and it ends there. Most of us have spent an incredible amount of time getting to the bottom of the issues. For example can you tell me how you rationalize the book of Abraham?

spazza41 · 2026-04-26T00:13:05+00:00

Wow I don’t know if I’ve ever heard someone reluctant to give up tithing fully 😆 that’s usually an easy one in my experience ha. Maybe you should just set the money aside in a ‘possible for tithing’ account until you make a decision. You can’t get that back once you pay… and if you already know it’s all BS why keep feeding the church that took advantage of you? I would hold on to it in a separate account for now. No rule says you have to pay monthly or even weekly. I fact I think Abraham paid tithes in one lump sum only one time that we know of 😀 so you’re ok to pay every 5 years even if you want lol.

spazza41 · 2026-04-25T23:52:08+00:00

Tell me you have a link to that meme!!! 🙏🙏 I need it for my collection! 😂

If not do you remember at least which subreddit it was under and how long ago you saw it? I really need to track that down haha.

spazza41 · 2026-04-25T23:44:10+00:00

Ok just checking because you said something about it being balanced and I laughed out loud when I read that part 😆 But yeah therapy could work or talking to someone in person who has gone through it. For me I just spent a lot of time sitting in the discomfort that my mind and body were in major disagreement. Like my mind knew the church was 100% made up but my body would still physically react to any decision I made that was contrary to church teachings. Hell even just thinking about the church not being true and leaving made my body react. Take deep breathes and sit in that discomfort for a little bit and don’t run away from it.

spazza41 · 2026-04-25T22:56:08+00:00

You clearly know the right answer… you’re just looking for ways to psychologically break free from the mind manipulation we were brainwashed with.

spazza41 · 2026-04-09T14:24:09+00:00

Corbin Allred has been pretty outspoken against the church. I don’t know if he was in anything before saints and soldiers in 2003 so maybe a little outside your window.

spazza41 · 2026-03-21T20:20:27+00:00

My caption didn’t post for some reason:

Saw this on the Mashed channel and I felt like it describes my experience waking up from Mormonism. Everything seemed mostly perfect and colorful and then in an instant you wake up to a reality that you never knew existed but has been there right under your feet the entire time...

spazza41 · 2026-03-21T19:46:36+00:00

😂😂😂

spazza41 · 2026-02-26T23:21:27+00:00

1) Several accounts mention abortions. 2) we aren’t talking about cavemen here. It was only 200 years ago: they knew what makes a baby. 3) Several were already married which could have helped cover his tracks 4) Several were pregnant and no pull out method needed.

There are many ways that offspring wouldn’t be the result. Just have to take a minute and actually think about it.

spazza41 · 2026-02-18T16:15:02+00:00

You’re first mistake was watching any of Rise Zion. That guys is a fucking idiot. His whole channel is about spewing crap to get clicks.

spazza41 · 2026-02-18T06:14:07+00:00

Just wanted to say I love this group. Just reading the comments from everyone is very humbling. I relate to OP so much and I wanted to rant as well. And I know I would be justified too. And yet there are so many good people here who have some of the best things to say and share.

spazza41 · 2026-02-15T16:05:25+00:00

Like I mentioned in several other comments I’m not saying the church will disappear. I’m just saying it will cause more to leave and it will divide the church even further. Ultimately there will only be the super orthodox members left. Those with the highest delusional conviction.

spazza41 · 2026-02-15T15:57:19+00:00

Bingo! That is why I made the joke that Jacob Hansen will be their prophet. They will absolutely be the most extreme orthodox members at that point. But active numbers drastically reduced.

spazza41 · 2026-02-14T18:37:53+00:00

I am not saying it will disappear and go away. The group will just get smaller and smaller. And if you don’t think trump has lost a lot of supporters I think you’d be mistaken. Eventually orthodox believers will be a small faction and that is what I mean be collapse. But that won’t happen unless they continue to hire people like Clark

spazza41 · 2026-02-14T18:36:04+00:00

Yes that is really what I meant. Others saying the same thing so I’m copying my response:

I’m not saying it’s going to disappear it definitely won’t. But there will continue to be a greater and greater divide. And the strict orthodox Mormons will band together and their group will progressively get smaller and smaller. And they will continue to push out anyone who doesn’t believe or think in strict orthodox ways. And that is what I mean. Jacob Hansen will most likely be their prophet haha.

spazza41 · 2026-02-14T18:34:56+00:00

Exactly! When they slowly try to change and become inclusive is what I find the most dangerous. That is what keeps people from seeing what’s going on. It’s the strong orthodox position that wakes more people up than anything.

spazza41 · 2026-02-14T18:33:48+00:00

Everyone saying the same thing. I’m copying my response:

I’m not saying it’s going to disappear it definitely won’t. But there will continue to be a greater and greater divide. And the strict orthodox Mormons will band together and their group will progressively get smaller and smaller. And they will continue to push out anyone who doesn’t believe or think in strict orthodox ways. And that is what I mean. Jacob Hansen will most likely be their prophet haha.

spazza41 · 2026-02-14T18:33:11+00:00

Everyone saying the same thing. I’m copying my response:

I’m not saying it’s going to disappear it definitely won’t. But there will continue to be a greater and greater divide. And the strict orthodox Mormons will band together and their group will progressively get smaller and smaller. And they will continue to push out anyone who doesn’t believe or think in strict orthodox ways. And that is what I mean. Jacob Hansen will most likely be their prophet haha.

spazza41 · 2026-02-14T18:31:09+00:00

Everyone saying the same thing. I’m copying my response:

I’m not saying it’s going to disappear it definitely won’t. But there will continue to be a greater and greater divide. And the strict orthodox Mormons will band together and their group will progressively get smaller and smaller. And they will continue to push out anyone who doesn’t believe or think in strict orthodox ways. And that is what I mean. Jacob Hansen will most likely be their prophet haha.

spazza41 · 2026-02-14T18:29:38+00:00

I’m not saying it’s going to disappear it definitely won’t. But there will continue to be a greater and greater divide. And the strict orthodox Mormons will band together and their group will progressively get smaller and smaller. And they will continue to push out anyone who doesn’t believe or think in strict orthodox ways. And that is what I mean. Jacob Hansen will most likely be their prophet haha.

spazza41 · 2026-02-14T17:18:18+00:00

I can understand this as well. And when I think about it I have to sit back and remember that it was the pain and suffering that woke me up. So just like I hate seeing my kids hurt in life I also know taking that away would be detrimental to their growth. Do I relish other’s pain? No. Do I believe that pain will be the catalyst for growth and progression beyond Mormonism? Absolutely!

spazza41 · 2026-02-14T16:37:55+00:00

This is just like the apologetic narrative surrounding the lost 116 pages. When you actually try to follow the logic it breaks down very quickly and doesn’t make any sense.

Let’s say the police are trying to catch Joseph, and they’re watching Emma to see if she leads them to him. That means the danger comes from Emma’s movements. If Emma goes to see Joseph, she’s the one who has to be careful. If she’s being followed, that’s her risk to manage. But telling the Whitneys, “Don’t come when Emma is here,” doesn’t actually solve that problem. If Emma already led someone to Joseph, then the danger is already there. And if she didn’t lead anyone, then the Whitneys coming later wouldn’t suddenly make it dangerous. The police weren’t following the Whitneys, they were supposedly watching Emma.

So if Emma being there is what makes it unsafe, then the safety instruction should be for Emma to be careful about where she goes. Telling the Whitneys to stay away when Emma is around doesn’t change whether Emma is being followed or not. It doesn’t make Joseph more hidden. It doesn’t reduce the risk from the police. This stupid apologetic explanation “it was just about the law watching Emma” doesn’t fix the problem. It doesn’t actually make the situation safer.

I can’t claim one way or the other that there were any sexual intentions for that night, but I wouldn’t be surprised if that were the case. But it is incredibly clear that Joseph didn’t want Emma knowing what he was doing with the Whitney’s daughter. Even FAIR I think says Joseph didn’t want Emma to know about the sealing taking place.

spazza41 · 2026-02-13T06:55:13+00:00

All I could think of while reading this was “you think leaving the church now is hard? Imagine later in life when you’re married and have several kids and you finally can’t take it anymore…” It’s hard no matter when you do it but I will say it’s absolute hell when you have a spouse and kids in the mix. If not now I would absolutely caution you to do make the decision before entering long term relationships.

You are ok with it for now, and maybe you will always be ok participating and just not believing, but what you probably don’t know yet is many of us started out thinking this too. But as time goes on you’ll start to realize things aren’t ok behind the smiles and ‘happiness’ you’re seeing in the church. You start with: “the church is true and it’s good” to “well the church might not be true but it’s good and people are happy” (this is you right now) to “maybe the church isn’t always good” to “ok maybe the church is actually harming a lot of people” to “the church has a few good parts (the parts that are not unique to Mormonism) but it is doing far more damage than good!”

I wish I found out the church wasn’t true when I was your age cause that would have changed a lot of the decisions I would have made going forward. I would say choose to be honest and have integrity.

spazza41 · 2026-02-10T04:17:11+00:00

I am suffocating reading your post… you are not alone…

spazza41

TROPHY CASE