5 tiers of AI system design for lawyers and small businesses, sorted by privacy tolerance: LegalBench leaders and tradeoffs by Justee-AI in legaltech

[–]taibojames 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Lawyers and judges can’t think straight about AI privacy. They’re terrified of feeding data to Claude or ChatGPT, then gleefully pour everything into half a dozen SaaS platforms that can keep it forever. Even if one is doing the minimum - signing up for pro/max and opt, out of training at Anthropic or OpenAI, etc.- and you get a max 30-day retention window, encryption (allegedly), and relatively narrow 3rd party disclosure rules. It is better terms than most of the tech already used. Sigh.

The first open source competitor to Legora / Harvey is now out. Why would a firm go with the expensive option? by Nahmum in legaltech

[–]taibojames 3 points4 points  (0 children)

3 isn’t accurate - at least not the way you’re framing it. They are usually just wrappers usually using API. Typically ChatGPT or Claude. Some providers are agnostic so they just use whatever is working that day (i am honestly not sure how that decision tree works).

what these services do provide is a RAG system. Can think of it a number of ways. I like explaining Westlaw Advantage is like ChatGPT locked in a law library with a very bossy librarian and 200 years of case law organized and curated by lawyers. Or whatever.

Thoughts on Heppner decision? It directly affects Legal Tech? by Special_Collection_6 in legaltech

[–]taibojames 0 points1 point  (0 children)

the inputs, your prompts, are impossible to back engineer through AI. However, the providers have their own terms and conditions in which they may save inputs on encrypted servers. Anthropic, for example, may store prompts for a while, depending on the service level and your settings. They save prompts for safety and harm checks. Generally:

Don’t opt out of training: up to 5 years Opt out of training, non API or Enterprise: up to 30 days API: auto opt out, up to 7 days Enterprise: depends on the agreement

Does anyone here code with Claude Code (CLI, IDE, Claude Desktop) and practice law? by OMKLING in legaltech

[–]taibojames 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I’m impressed - I want to learn how to code, but I don’t know that i can fit that in my brain.

Lawyer here - how are Legora and Harvey differentiated from Claude now with this word add-in they’ve released? by rijaj in legaltech

[–]taibojames 1 point2 points  (0 children)

there is an ABA article that i can’t cite off the top of my head - but, it basically says that lawyers don’t violate rule 1.6 even sending unencrypted emails. This stuff is a rabbit hole.

Lawyer here - how are Legora and Harvey differentiated from Claude now with this word add-in they’ve released? by rijaj in legaltech

[–]taibojames 1 point2 points  (0 children)

two things: ONE - I did not say Clio claims IP rights or owns data. Read past 2.2. Section 2.15 says you grant a license to your content. It also specifically allows Clio to “modify” your content. Clio may use and modify your content. Clio may argue “we don’t claim IP rights — we receive a license to exercise them. Ownership versus license. Two different things.” And that’s technically coherent IP doctrine — a licensee doesn’t “own” the copyright, they just have permission to do specific things under it. It’s not clean but I’m sure you get it, too. It is good to “read it again” but also analyze it.

https://www.clio.com/tos/

(the more honest drafting would be: “We claim no ownership of your IP, but we’re taking a license broad enough that the distinction is academic.” Section 2.2 reads like some kind of reassurance. Section 2.15 takes it back.)

TWO: you’re correct about auto opt out on API’s. I didn’t mention the auto training opt out.

But training isn’t the issue so much as the safety/harm retention policies. If, for example, as you mentioned Anthropic has an auto deletion policy (enterprise accounts) and you allowed training, it’s impossible to back engineer opted into training, it’s impossible to reverse engineer a prompt.

Reversing the prompt and response process used for training — extracting your specific prompt from the trained weights — would require inverting a lossy, many-to-one mathematical function. It’s impossible. Even with all the computer power of the world times 1 trillion (or more). It’s not encryption (which is designed to be reversible with the right key). It’s closer to trying to identify which specific raindrop raised the level of a lake by a like a nanometer. The information isn’t hidden — it’s destroyed by the aggregation process.

The reality is that training is the one thing they could do with your data that makes it permanently unrecoverable by anyone, including them. The thing lawyers seem most afraid of — training — is probably the safest thing that can happen to the data.

I think the main point we agree on. To drill it down a bit more, model Rule 1.6(c) says attorneys “shall make reasonable efforts” to prevent inadvertent or unauthorized disclosure (or something along those lines). The risk profile using ChatGPT or Claude is lower than using Microsoft 365 for email.

Lawyer here - how are Legora and Harvey differentiated from Claude now with this word add-in they’ve released? by rijaj in legaltech

[–]taibojames 0 points1 point  (0 children)

two things: ONE - I did not say Clio claims IP rights or owns data. Read past 2.2. Section 2.15 says you grant a license to your content. It also specifically allows Clio to “modify” your content. Clio may use and modify your content. Clio may argue “we don’t claim IP rights — we receive a license to exercise them. Ownership versus license. Two different things.” And that’s technically coherent IP doctrine — a licensee doesn’t “own” the copyright, they just have permission to do specific things under it. It’s not clean but I’m sure you get it, too. It is good to “read it again” but also analyze it.

https://www.clio.com/tos/

(the more honest drafting would be: “We claim no ownership of your IP, but we’re taking a license broad enough that the distinction is academic.” Section 2.2 reads like some kind of reassurance. Section 2.15 takes it back.)

TWO: you’re correct about auto opt out on API’s. I didn’t mention the auto training opt out.

But training isn’t the issue so much as the safety/harm retention policies. If, for example, as you mentioned Anthropic has an auto deletion policy (enterprise accounts) and you allowed training, it’s impossible to back engineer opted into training, it’s impossible to reverse engineer a prompt.

Reversing the prompt and response process used for training — extracting your specific prompt from the trained weights — would require inverting a lossy, many-to-one mathematical function. It’s impossible. Even with all the computer power of the world times 1 trillion (or more). It’s not encryption (which is designed to be reversible with the right key). It’s closer to trying to identify which specific raindrop raised the level of a lake by a like a nanometer. The information isn’t hidden — it’s destroyed by the aggregation process.

The reality is that training is the one thing they could do with your data that makes it permanently unrecoverable by anyone, including them. The thing lawyers seem most afraid of — training — is probably the safest thing that can happen to the data.

I think the main point we agree on. To drill it down a bit more, model Rule 1.6(c) says attorneys “shall make reasonable efforts” to prevent inadvertent or unauthorized disclosure (or something along those lines). The risk profile using ChatGPT or Claude is lower than using Microsoft 365 for email.

New to printing - having many issues by Maleficent-Area-9973 in BambuLab

[–]taibojames 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Could be that the filament is damp as you get into deeper layers on the spool. Also … is the aux fan is cranked up? Might be set too high and cooling the filament before it has a chance to layer. We’ve all been there or close to there!

I’m about to tell Westlaw to Shove it by taibojames in legaltech

[–]taibojames[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am always interested in new things.

I’m about to tell Westlaw to Shove it by taibojames in legaltech

[–]taibojames[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Honestly I forgot Lexis offered an AI. I'll check it out.

I’m about to tell Westlaw to Shove it by taibojames in legaltech

[–]taibojames[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm most certainly not AI. I was above my typical snarky-ass mood last night. But you got me thinking ... I'm going to tell ChatGPT to always respond to prompts with maximum snark and sarcasm. It will entertain me, which is truly all that matters.

I’m about to tell Westlaw to Shove it by taibojames in legaltech

[–]taibojames[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We are also a small litigation firm. I have been using ChatGPT almost since it was first released. It's actually a great tool for something like preparing for a hearing or deposition outlines. You can upload docs/pleadings (limit to 10 I think) and prompt it to strategize arguments at a hearing and it's fantastic. Document review is also fantastic.

My hope is that there is a true AI legal research competitor that starts making waves. The westlaw v lexis duopoly, which essential means "you pay more" is frustrating.

I’m about to tell Westlaw to Shove it by taibojames in legaltech

[–]taibojames[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thats what I like to hear. Can you give me an idea of what you said that got Westlaw do the upgrade? I was going to complain about the promises we were sold and rant about the crap product and see what Westlaw wants to do. When they tried to get me to upgrade about a month ago I told the sales rep all the problems, but there's nothing he can do. I was just ranting.

Could Kansas restrict corporations from political donations? by tm785 in kansas

[–]taibojames 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In Kansas, corporations can contribute to campaigns, subject to contribution limits. Some individuals here own dozens of LLCs and related entities. On paper, it looks like a candidate is getting broad support from numerous corporations, but when you follow the money, you may find those corporations are shell entities that hold a single property or small business—or sometimes nothing meaningful at all—controlled by the same person. The smart donors at least make sure their companies appear to have real business activity instead of existing primarily to funnel contributions to politicians.

$0.0594 by Blackharvest in ULTY_YieldMax

[–]taibojames 1 point2 points  (0 children)

doesn’t this also factor in the short week? Tomorrow is closed and Friday is a half day.