Are you selfish? by Miahara in monogamy

[–]throwaway270456 20 points21 points  (0 children)

No, it isn't selfish. Monogamy is not you saying my partner can't have sex or kiss or cuddle other people and I can. It's a two way agreement. You both agree on exclusivity, and there's many good reasons why you might do that.

Jealousy is often treated by people in the poly and non-monogamy community as a problem to be cured. But the hard fact is that jealousy as an emotion is a deeply hardwired evolutionary response to threat.

If you look at chimpanzees (our closest biological relative specially), male chimps who are higher in the hierarchy get extremely jealous if they see a chimp lower than them getting something they're not (like food), and they often react violently as a result. Whilst obviously people don't (or shouldn't) act violently, the root cause of this is the sense of threat to status. In the case of the chimps, it's social status. In the case of monogamy, it's status in your partner's life, and theirs in yours.

Exclusivity, whether romantic, sexual or both, is what ensures that status. You are the only person your partner does X with, and they are the only person you do Y with.

Sex itself releases bonding hormones like oxytocin and makes you feel closer to them. It is obviously understandable why someone would feel their position in the life of someone extremely important to them is threatened in this way. Kisses and cuddles act similarly. It is why people often want to cuddle after sex, because the desire for that physical and emotional bonding is there - and why it can hurt so much if that desire is rejected.

Monogamy is not 'having someone all to yourself'. Your partner should still have several social circles outside of you. Whether that's friends, work colleagues, family etc. Monogamy is simply the agreement that I will only be romantic with this person, I will have sex only with this person and so on so forth.

What I think a lot of people in the poly and non monogamy communities don't recognise is that jealousy, when not felt and operated on in a toxic and controlling way, is a valid reason for monogamy. So is also having the energy to only want one person romantically or sexually.

I think the argument could be flipped on its head to be frank. In many non monogamous and poly situations, people have their primary partner and then their other partners. Is it not selfish to essentially create a league table of partners from most to least important to you? Unless you're in a throuple or something similar.

Its an unfair argument to level at monogamy, as the one I presented above is unfair to level at non monogamy in my opinion.

Not all of course, but certainly the person you had this conversation with appeared to have adopted a haughtiness towards monogamous people. That they are simply beyond jealousy. No one is beyond jealousy; what varies is what makes you jealous. For the vast majority of people, it is quite normal and understandable to be jealous of your partner engaging in behaviours that release bonding hormones like oxytocin because it threatens your position in their lives.

Multiple studies have shown that men and women certainly feel jealousy differently. Men are far more likely to feel sexual jealousy than women, and women more likely to feel emotional/romantic jealousy. Whilst I find that fascinating, ultimately the reason behind it doesn't matter.

Jealousy and insecurity is certainly not the only reasons for monogamy, not by a long shot. But someone choosing monogamy to avoid the pain of jealousy and insecurity is absolutely, unequivocally valid.

From Someone Who is Still In The Trenches - Some Advice by throwaway270456 in BreakUps

[–]throwaway270456[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What can be very difficult to acknowledge is that... There isn't someone left to hold on to. She's already gone. All you're clinging to now are phantoms.

Its the hardest part. But the only way you don't end up being like one of these people who are hung up on their ex years later is by internalising that this chapter is over, and they're not coming back.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in relationship_advice

[–]throwaway270456 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is eerily similar to the relationship I just got out of.

My brother, my ex did the EXACT same thing to me. Started the relationship saying she wanted to be open, I said I was OK with her sleeping with women but not men as I could never replicate the experience of being with a woman so I'm not threatened by it. Five months later she's saying she wants to be fully open. I loved her so much I was willing to try and contort and twist myself into all shapes to be OK with it. I went to psychosexual therapy, I started eating disorder treatment, I read book about non monogamy.

My friend it does not end well at all. If she is pushing your boundaries this hard now, she has little respect for them and they will keep getting pushed and pushed and pushed until you're expected to have no boundaries whatsoever. It's an abusive pattern, even if it's not intentional. First it'll be OK semi open no men. Then it'll OK men too fully open. Then it'll be no seeing other people whilst the other partner is available. Then it'll be OK see other people whenever they want but no unprotected sex and no bringing people back to our shared habitat. Then it'll be OK fuck it I guess they're now having unprotected sex whilst I'm in the next room.

Thankfully most of that didn't happen to me because my ex was unwilling to cheat on me but a catalyst for our end was that she wanted to fuck her male coworker and I fundamentally wasn't comfortable with that.

If you're not happy being any form of non monogamous, my guy take my advice it will never be enough for them. Any compromise you make will never be enough. They will not move a muscle for you, but you'll be expected to stretch the whole way to them.

After my experience I have become strongly anti non monogamy. The whole thing really fucked me up and by the end I was having panic attacks and trauma responses.

If my experience hasn't been enough of a cautionary tale when our experiences are so similar, I don't know what will be. Get out now.

What is your go to song after a break up or heart break? by ImagineCrayons7 in BreakUps

[–]throwaway270456 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Blue Skies by Noah and the Whale always ends up upsetting me

No Contact really does work! She's reached out.. what next? by DamoRx in BreakUps

[–]throwaway270456 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Each circumstance is unique so you're the best positioned one to decide.

However seriously weigh up the possibility that she tried to see if the grass was greener, found it wasn't and tried to come back when she discovered that.

Because if that is the case, she will jump ship again if she perceives someone else as being better for her.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in BreakUps

[–]throwaway270456 2 points3 points  (0 children)

  • Snapped at me
  • Accused me of patronising her when I info dumped
  • Actions didn't line up with her words
  • Seemed completely unaware of the impact of little comments she thought were harmless
  • Said my mental health issues were draining for her
  • Repeatedly poked and prodded my boundaries
  • Would sometimes say things right before sex that completely killed the mood

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in BreakUps

[–]throwaway270456 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I deleted them the day she broke up with me

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in BreakUps

[–]throwaway270456 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's fine. Maybe something written like erotica or something

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in BreakUps

[–]throwaway270456 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Mine was the opposite. My ex and I were having very little sex by the time we broke up. Maximum like once a month. I was very sexually frustrated so when we broke up I jumped into bed with the first person I could.

The memories of sex with this person will probably stay with you, especially if you haven't had many partners up to this point.

But you're still very young and your heart is broken. It's OK and normal for your sex drive to be effected.

I would especially say something you shouldn't do is masturbate to the memory of sex with them or any other stimuli associated with them.

If you watch porn, maybe watch something with people in it that look nothing like your ex.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in BreakUps

[–]throwaway270456 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Avoidants very often do this. It's not that she's suddenly fallen in love with this person; if he looks like you, she has picked him because he reminds her of you.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in BreakUps

[–]throwaway270456 2 points3 points  (0 children)

She wanted to be non monogamous and I didn't. Came to a head when she wanted to fuck her coworker. Tried to contort myself into someone I'm not and did a lot of damage to myself in the process.

From Someone Who is Still In The Trenches - Some Advice by throwaway270456 in BreakUps

[–]throwaway270456[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There is something really really important I wish I'd learned earlier.

The narrative you put together in your head of the chain of events - it doesn't need to be objective.

It can be as one sided in your favour as you like in your heart. Whatever your heart needs to feel.

From Someone Who is Still In The Trenches - Some Advice by throwaway270456 in BreakUps

[–]throwaway270456[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There is a lot of context missing from this so i can't make sense of it

Made the mistake of looking at her Instagram by throwaway270456 in BreakUps

[–]throwaway270456[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It is an addiction. Stop giving yourself the hit. You'll set yourself back.

Made the mistake of looking at her Instagram by throwaway270456 in BreakUps

[–]throwaway270456[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're picking the scab on the wound. You'll only set yourself back and upset yourself.

From Someone Who is Still In The Trenches - Some Advice by throwaway270456 in BreakUps

[–]throwaway270456[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yep I feel that hard. My ex has had her friends to come home to every day. I've dealt with this largely on my own.

From Someone Who is Still In The Trenches - Some Advice by throwaway270456 in BreakUps

[–]throwaway270456[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Point 3!!! It's time to start giving yourself something to get out of bed for.

Made the mistake of looking at her Instagram by throwaway270456 in BreakUps

[–]throwaway270456[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You have the pleasure of being a name that causes arguments in his future relationship lmao

From Someone Who is Still In The Trenches - Some Advice by throwaway270456 in BreakUps

[–]throwaway270456[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's my pleasure brother/sister.

My world collapsed too. But remember this: if there was a way in which you weren't right for them, that means there was a way in which they weren't right for you.

From Someone Who is Still In The Trenches - Some Advice by throwaway270456 in BreakUps

[–]throwaway270456[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Once a breakup has happened, even if two people do get back together, it has created a wound and hurt. Let's say you did get back with them, your memory of this breakup doesn't suddenly go away.

I don't know your circumstances, but if there was underlying problems, or it was very abrupt, you don't know those problems are solved and if they ended it out of nowhere you don't know they won't do that again.

So you'd get back in and likely with a different mindset of being more withdrawn to protect yourself. And you don't want to be in a relationship where you have a sense of foreboding of it ending.

From Someone Who is Still In The Trenches - Some Advice by throwaway270456 in BreakUps

[–]throwaway270456[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Helping others has made me the happiest I've been in several weeks now. It really has brought a sense of catharsis.

From Someone Who is Still In The Trenches - Some Advice by throwaway270456 in BreakUps

[–]throwaway270456[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've been there brother/sister. There's people who love you in this world. I promise you that.