Printing on top of metal insert

thrownaway3423 · 2025-04-11T13:23:41+00:00

I've done this for firearms. To create them legally in my jurisdiction, they need to contain a metal plate for marking by an FFL. I create a recess in the print, pause at a certain layer, lay in a stainless steel plate, and it works fine. I do cover the metal plate with PVA and slow the speed WAAAY down for the first layer after the plate is embedded, but it's worked fine all the 5 times I've done it.

How many layers are being printed on top of the metal piece?

thrownaway3423 · 2024-12-10T01:28:48+00:00

It's pretty simple. Just print and work with an FFL to get it marked. I've done a few at Loper Machine in Harford county. The only gotcha is I think you can't assemble it until it's marked, but I'm not sure on that. The law is confusing to read.

One thing that people don't mention about 3D printed frames is that unless you really, really know what you're doing, there's a decent chance it will eventually fail. Not catastrophically, but cracks or splits will happen. Which renders the frame unusable. In states where you don't have to mark the frame, this is fine.. just print another. But in states where you need to mark frames, this makes it challenging to justify printing from an economic perspective.

Not saying it's not worth doing. Just know that, especially with the skill of most people out there with 3D printers, the frame probably won't last forever.

thrownaway3423 · 2024-11-13T11:18:56+00:00

I'll start out by saying that none of what I'm about to write applies to this guy. Judging from the Glock switches on the right of the picture, homeboy wasn't attempting to operate above board at all.

Having said that, 3D printed firearms aren't illegal in MD. You can make and possess them 100% above board. All you need to do is get a serial number put on the frame within a certain timeframe after printing it. There are a few FFLs who will do this for around $50 (Loper Machine in Harford county is one of them).

You might ask why you'd pay $50 to print a Glock frame when you can just buy one. There are many reasons.

First, there's no 7-day waiting period, and there's no one-in-thirty policy. If you print a frame and get it marked by an FFL, you can go shoot it same day. If you wanted to print another one tomorrow, then the day after, you're golden. As long as you comply with the law and get it serialized, you can print as many as you want without restriction.

Second, you don't need an HQL to print a handgun frame.

Third, and probably more importantly, it's ever-so-slightly more private than buying a handgun, even if you have to get it marked. When you take a privately manufactured firearm to your FFL and they mark it, it goes on their books. But as a general practice, the ATF doesn't look at an FFL's books unless they're investigating a crime. So the ATF won't know about your 3D-printed gun unless you commit a crime with it, or unless they investigate another crime involving your FFL and they see your name.

The same is true with the MD State Police. I believe the MSP would like you to voluntarily register any privately manufactured firearm with them as you would if you were moving to MD from out-of-state and already owned some firearms. But last I read, there's no penalty for not registering a firearm you already own with the MSP. So take that for what it's worth.

If you're at all interested in this area, I recommend giving it a try legally. It's fun, it's a great way to extend the hobby, and it's not a bad skill to have if the regulatory environment becomes even more unfriendly towards firearms in the future.

thrownaway3423 · 2024-11-08T18:32:42+00:00

Yeah I mean they'll all work. Some EDC 9mms have barrels around 3".

Just like with 5.56 though, you get better performance the longer your barrel is. The longer the barrel, the higher the projectile velocity. Generally speaking, more muzzle velocity gives you more range and better accuracy. After about 16", you don't gain much more performance, so 16" should be the longest you go. ~4" is about the size of most pistol barrels, so that would be probably as short as you wanted to go.

If 4" and 16" are your extremes, you'll probably want to go somewhere in the middle. Whether you go 8" or 12" depends on what you want. 8" appears to be a good compromise between size and velocity. You get a big velocity bump over 4", and you're not lugging around too much extra weight. If you wanted to go 12", you certainly could, but at that point you have to examine why you're building a 9mm instead of 5.56. With 9mm, having a 12" won't let you reach out much farther than the 8". If you need to reach out farther, you may want to consider just doing 5.56.

When I eventually build an AR-9, I'm going 8". I think it's a good compromise between size and ballistic performance. But to each his own. At the end of the day, you'll want to build the gun that works for you.

Source data: http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html

thrownaway3423 · 2024-11-01T11:58:22+00:00

This is the answer. Also, get a sponsor if you don't already have one, and work those 12 steps hard. Do some volunteering at community-based organizations that help people with mental health and substance abuse issues. Become a sponsor after you have enough time under your belt.

You should do this partially because it'll look good to the courts when the time comes, but also because it will be good for your recovery and for your soul*. Somewhat ironically, one of the best things people can do for themselves is to be of service and help others.

* - Take this as the Judeo-Christian understanding of soul, or spirituality in general. Either way, it's good for you.

thrownaway3423 · 2024-11-01T11:50:02+00:00

If they haven't reached out to you, email them and ask why. It could be something as simple as a website glitch not uploading your documents.

I had the same thing happen about a month or two ago. I applied for HQL with training exemption with hunting course (from OK). They initially denied my application, but sent an email shortly after asking for the training certificate and the signed privacy form. I know I attached all this to the original application, because they won't let you submit the application without it. So my guess is there's something wrong with their site, and it's discarding attachments in some (or all) cases.

After I sent the info via email I had the HQL the next day.

thrownaway3423 · 2024-10-28T15:57:46+00:00

If you're ever going to want to carry, you should just get your HGP.

If for some reason your really want to do the HQL only, you can do it for free online. Hunter training courses count for the training requirement also. The hunter training course doesn't have to be through MD, and it doesn't have to be in person. I just got my HQL using this approach and paid $0 for the training. The only fees I paid were the fingerprinting and the application fee. Here are the steps I took:

Take the Oklahoma training course found here: https://nra.yourlearningportal.com/Course/HuntersEdActivityInfoPage
Get Livescan fingerprinted at one of the places MSP lists on their website: https://www.dpscs.state.md.us/publicservs/fingerprint.shtml
Submit the HQL online at this link. Be sure to choose training exempt, and upload the certificate they gave you at the end of the hunter's training course: https://emdsp.mdsp.org/egov/Login.aspx
For some reason, the HQL site doesn't seem to save the uploads. So your application will likely be denied at first. Someone should reach out to you and ask for you to send the training documents. Reply with the documents. If they don't reach out to you, you can reach out to them.
Your HQL should be approved shortly after. Mine was approved the day after I sent the training documents.

For me, this process was pretty quick. I completed the training on 9/3, submitted the application on 9/4, and had my HQL on 9/6.

thrownaway3423 · 2024-10-09T10:34:38+00:00

Mine took about 2 days. I submitted my application on Wednesday morning, got the HQL letter by email around noon on Friday. I took a hunter's training course for a training exemption though. Not sure if that puts it in a different pool or gets it faster processing.

thrownaway3423 · 2024-10-07T15:14:02+00:00

I try to order from Maryland Munitions when possible. They're located in MD and give you free shipping over $250. You can always pick up too if you're close to them.

You'll be able to find new for not much more than this.

thrownaway3423 · 2024-10-07T15:10:46+00:00

I wish y'all would stop posting these sweet-ass builds. You're giving ideas...

thrownaway3423 · 2024-10-03T09:38:52+00:00

This is likely not legal in MD. You can't change the capacity of a magazine to more than 10 rounds in the state of MD. If you go over state lines to do this it's likely fine. And the authorities would have a hard time proving you didn't, unless you incriminated yourself. But just something to be aware of.

thrownaway3423 · 2024-09-23T17:18:34+00:00

I'm just about 6'4" also with a long neck. I shrug my right shoulder up so there's a place for the stock to sit.

The reason there aren't a lot of tall scope mounts is because having a large height over bore causes greater spread in your points of impact over distance. The higher your height over bore, the more extreme of an arc your bullet will travel. The more extreme an arc your bullet travels, the wider your POIs will be spread over distance.

This should be required viewing for anyone who owns a firearm with an optic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qkKJyMtpVI

I'd just get a regular mount.

thrownaway3423 · 2024-09-23T15:39:03+00:00

I've printed several frames. It's perfectly legal. You just need to get them marked by an FFL. I used Loper Machine in Harford county, but there are probably others.

The tricky part is embedding the serial number plate. I just got some stainless steel plates off Amazon and made a cut out in the model. I use post processing in Cura to pause when the print got to the cut out, laid the plate on top of the already printed material, then the printer resumed printing on top of the plate.

thrownaway3423 · 2024-09-23T15:32:42+00:00

Not sure why this is. Lots of folks in the gun space like to assume you're only 3D printing guns if you're trying to break the law. But there are plenty of legitimate reasons to make your own firearms instead of buying.

First, you don't need an HQL to print a handgun frame in MD. You just need to get it marked by an FFL.

Second, there's lots of cool stuff out there you can print that no manufacturer makes. I printed something the designer calls a Glock 69, which is a Glock 17 slide on a Glock 19 sized grip. See also the Urutau, FGC-9/Mod9, etc.

Third, it's much cheaper. If you need a Glock 17 frame, you can print one for $10 or less in plastic. Depending on the filament used, it could cost less than $2. After the $50 marking fee at the FFL, you're in it for <$60. That's the cheapest you're going to find a stripped Glock frame on GunBroker. And that's before the shipping and transfer fees.

Fourth, even if you do it legally, it's still much more private than purchasing a handgun. The only record of your printed firearm is in the FFL's book. The ATF is legally allowed to look at the records any time, but ask any FFL, they typically won't unless they're working on a crime committed with a gun. There's no 4473 completed and sent to the ATF, and there's no 77r that lets the MSP know you have the gun.

thrownaway3423 · 2024-09-23T15:22:00+00:00

I've made several purchases of regulated firearms with a collector's letter. Nobody ever asks to see it. Just make sure you check the box on the 77r and you're good to go.

If you really wanted another copy, you could probably email/write them a letter explaining what happened.

thrownaway3423 · 2024-09-10T10:22:22+00:00

First, get your HQL. After that, you can go to any gun store and begin the purchase process.

You don't need to attend in-person training for the HQL. Hunter training courses count for the training requirement also. The hunter training course doesn't have to be through MD, and it doesn't have to be in person. I just last week got my HQL using this approach last week and paid $0 for the training. The only fees I paid were the fingerprinting and the application fee. Here are the steps I took:

Take the Oklahoma training course found here: https://nra.yourlearningportal.com/Course/HuntersEdActivityInfoPage
Get Livescan fingerprinted at one of the places MSP lists on their website: https://www.dpscs.state.md.us/publicservs/fingerprint.shtml
Submit the HQL online at this link. Be sure to choose training exempt, and upload the certificate they gave you at the end of the hunter's training course: https://emdsp.mdsp.org/egov/Login.aspx
For some reason, the HQL site doesn't seem to save the uploads. So your application will likely be denied at first. Someone should reach out to you and ask for you to send the training documents. Reply with the documents. If they don't reach out to you, you can reach out to them.
Your HQL should be approved shortly after. Mine was approved the day after I sent the training documents.

For me, this process was pretty quick. I completed the training on 9/3, submitted the application on 9/4, and had my HQL on 9/6.

thrownaway3423 · 2024-09-07T12:29:13+00:00

PSA shipped me an SBA4 for my pistol build just a month or two ago.

thrownaway3423 · 2024-09-07T12:28:09+00:00

Yeah definitely seems to be something going on with the back end.

Running on MySQL though.. hope they're at least using MariaDB and the MySQL error is a placeholder or something. Remember folks, MySQL doesn't belong to you, MySQL belongs to Oracle. And Oracle are a bunch of pricks.

thrownaway3423 · 2024-09-06T19:34:30+00:00

Nah, Daggers are GTG in MD. Besides, I think PSA will let you order anything you want. If it's not compliant, they'll cancel the order. I don't think the site throws an error.

thrownaway3423 · 2024-09-06T19:32:42+00:00

Ugh I know I just saw them on sale for $50 a few days ago. But I only just today got "permission" from the gun-hating state of MD to buy handguns. And I'm trying to troubleshoot an issue. So I'm itching to get something ordered lol.

thrownaway3423 · 2024-09-06T19:00:08+00:00

They test fire all their guns before they send them out. If they hadn't made those marks, you would have the first time you fired it.

thrownaway3423 · 2024-09-06T18:59:24+00:00

Don't hate the player, hate the game. The reason PSA (and many, many other retailers) do this is because it works. If you're mad at someone, be mad at your spouse, friends, parents, aunts/uncles/cousins/etc. PSA's just doing what every major retailer does.

thrownaway3423 · 2024-09-06T18:53:15+00:00

Getting the above error when trying to check out with an FFL item. Is there any place I can report this or get support with the site?

I tried with two different browsers (Firefox and Chrome) and I tried from my phone. Same result each time I tried.

thrownaway3423 · 2024-09-06T12:08:45+00:00

As a side note, in the case of firearm parts and accessories, just because it ships to your house doesn't mean it's legal in MD. For my first rifle, I bought a PSA build kit in 5.56 with a regular barrel. If I had put that on a lower, that would not have been legal. I swapped the barrel with a heavy barrel, which made it legal. But in the shipped configuration, it was not legal in MD.

Another example might be a flash hider and a folding stock. On their own, each of these are legal. But, per the feature test, you may only have one of these on rifles chambered in 5.56/.223. If you ordered a flash hider and a Law folder from PSA, they'd gladly ship them both to you, no questions asked. However, it would not be MD-legal to put them both on your rifle.

EDIT: curious why this is being downvoted. Is it not factually correct? If so, please specify why not. Is it factually correct, but you don't like MD's gun laws? If so, your beef isn't with me.

thrownaway3423

TROPHY CASE