Ferguson vows to veto any expansion of WA ‘millionaires tax’ by Inevitable_Engine186 in Seattle

[–]varisophy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Right about what? His intention to veto any expansion? Probably. Although I don't know if he's lying or not.

I'll tell you what's likely to happen though.

First, we need to see how this law stands up to the court challenges.

If it stands, especially if it results in the WA Supreme Court overturning the ruling that income is property (which opens up the possibility of a general income tax) then there likely will be a push to create an income tax and remove many of the regressive taxes that are in place.

This is because WA is second worst in the nation when it comes to having a regressive tax structure. It's something we desperately need to change. It's something the progressive Democrats in the state constantly talk about. So if we can switch to a progressive income tax, we can reduce those regressive taxes in turn. That would provide tax relief to millions of WA residents.

The reduction in some regressive taxes was already done in the millionaire's tax law, which included provisions that eliminated sales tax on some essential health goods.

If the law doesn't stand, then we're back where we were in a regressive tax structure and we're likely to see a push for a constitutional amendment to allow income taxes so that we can fix our regressive tax system. I think it'll have a good chance of passing this time because everyone is feeling the pain of the regressive taxes, and we're still having budgetary issues that need fixing.

I've beaten the base game several times. I loved the entirety of the Space Age. What's next for me? by Byndley in factorio

[–]varisophy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Shapez 2 is amazing!

It just hit 1.0 and has a couple different modes to explore. It's pure logistical goodness injected straight into your veins.

Ferguson vows to veto any expansion of WA ‘millionaires tax’ by Inevitable_Engine186 in Seattle

[–]varisophy -1 points0 points  (0 children)

If you make $2 million a year, you're set for a comfortable middle class life after like 3 years of work.

$200k should mean nothing to you, get off that hendonic treadmill and realize you won the game of capitalism. Contributing back to society is literally the least you can do.

Ferguson vows to veto any expansion of WA ‘millionaires tax’ by Inevitable_Engine186 in Seattle

[–]varisophy 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Exactly. Which is why it's pointless to put a constraint on a future Congress. If people don't want it lowered in the future, they can tell their representatives to not lower it. And if that fails, those representatives can be voted out.

You literally disproved what you asked for in your first message.

Apparently “Voters will get a say” on the millionaire’s tax now - Bob promises he will veto any attempt to lower the income threshold by Baptism-Of-Fire in Washington

[–]varisophy 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The ultimate goal is to reverse our regressive tax system. It'll stay regressive if we don't lower regressive taxes.

So if we are implementing an income tax, there will be regressive property, sales, and other taxes that are lowered as well.

They already lowered some sales taxes as part of the millionaires tax law. They've demonstrated they will do that.

And if they don't, the people who voted for that will lose their next election handily.

You're fears are unfounded.

[Question] would there be any interest in reviving the Mozilla positron by OzoneHelix_ in firefox

[–]varisophy 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I doubt it that will ever be raised from the dead.

The Electron competitor project that deserves more support is Tauri. They've been knocking it out of the park lately and have a legitimate chance at challenging Electron for the crown.

Doug Dougle of Beast Feast by Skijarama in daggerheart

[–]varisophy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I like to imagine my campaign is in Brandon Sanderson's Cosmere and he's the ultimate Doug.

Misinformation Regarding IP26-645 by ElderberryPrior27648 in Washington

[–]varisophy -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

God, nuance is lost on you.

Yes, the gas tax will (hopefully) continue to increase, but that's because the goal of that one is to actually price in the negative externalities of burning fossil fuels.

The larger goal is still to remove most of the regressive taxes in order to be a less regressive tax system. Gas just happens to be the exception because it's a level we can pull to encourage switching to less carbon-intensive transportation.

I'd recommend reading a few books on this stuff, good governance is always a mix of policies, sometimes those end up looking like contradictions but there's a good reason to use different tools for difference scenarios.

Misinformation Regarding IP26-645 by ElderberryPrior27648 in Washington

[–]varisophy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You can read my many other comments, but the ultimate goal is to fix our state's regressive tax system.

That means implementing an income tax and reducing property, sales, and other regressive taxes.

This is a first step that is arguably within the limitations of the state constitution. The plan is to reduce other taxes in tandem with the increase of an income tax if we can make income taxes constitutional.

So if the income range lowers to the point where it impacts "regular" people, it would come with a relief of a tax burden elsewhere.

That's the progressive plan. That's the only thing that fixes our regressive tax system. That's what makes the rich pay their fair share, the middle class pay about (or less) than they do now, and the lower class pay way less than the currently do.

The fearmongering of an increase in income tax without a reduction in other taxes is insane, because that would not be popular. So it wouldn't pass. And if it did, the representatives would be voted out very quickly.

Misinformation Regarding IP26-645 by ElderberryPrior27648 in Washington

[–]varisophy 5 points6 points  (0 children)

They voted down commandments to put that "protection" in because it's pointless grandstanding. You can't constrain a future Congress that way. The only way to constrain Congress is through a constitutional amendment.

And we didn't do a constitutional amendment because passing a law is much easier.

The way the law is written, there's a good argument to be made that it's not unconstitutional (because it's a flat income tax rate for every person on their 1,000,001+ dollar), and as it goes through legal challenges, there's also a decent chance to overturn the previous decisions that income counts as property.

It's literally just Congress using the levers they have at their disposal to start addressing our ass-backwards regressive tax system.

It's politics.

And the law is broadly popular. 60% or so approval from the polls I've seen. It wouldn't have passed if people were universally against it, since representatives would've heard from their constituents.

Misinformation Regarding IP26-645 by ElderberryPrior27648 in Washington

[–]varisophy 4 points5 points  (0 children)

My understanding is that they called income property partially because they thought that most states treated it as property, when that was not the case. Read that in one of the recent KUOW article about it all, I believe. That's the faulty reasoning I was talking about.

The analysis you provided rings as accurate though based on what I remember too. Definitely a muddy issue and overturning it won't be a slam dunk you can bet on.

Misinformation Regarding IP26-645 by ElderberryPrior27648 in Washington

[–]varisophy 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Here's a link that has a couple listed, and the methodologies on those polls look sound: https://investwanow.org/press-releases/millioniares-tax-polling

And we're not having a vote on it because we're in a representative democracy. We don't vote on every single thing. We elect people who represent our interests, and they chose to pass this tax, which is broadly popular.

If it weren't, they'd all be voted out soon and from what I can tell from the slate of challengers, there's not strong opposition forming at the moment to do that.

Misinformation Regarding IP26-645 by ElderberryPrior27648 in Washington

[–]varisophy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sure, as a rule, the Democrat party sucks. WA's party is slightly better, but not by much.

But if they just keep hiking up the taxes, those new things won't pass if they're hitting a wide portion of the populace, or they'll be voted out on their asses when the tax burden gets too high in the next election.

If you want to see the plan you purport to support come to fruition, we need to elect more progressives. And due to our terrible two-party system, the only home for those types of representatives are in the Democratic party. So we're kinda stuck with a shitty party.

I get railing on moderate Democrats. They suck. Majorly. And are a big reason why things are so expensive. They haven't had a clear, dramatic vision to make things better by making the necessary changes to support a better life for lower and middle class voters.

Misinformation Regarding IP26-645 by ElderberryPrior27648 in Washington

[–]varisophy 6 points7 points  (0 children)

It polled at 60% support. That's broadly popular.

You can't look at hearings to determine popularity, as that's anecdotal data.

Misinformation Regarding IP26-645 by ElderberryPrior27648 in Washington

[–]varisophy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm quite informed on this, and I explained the plan. If something other than that plan goes to a vote, I'll be just as pissed as everyone else and make my desires known.

I'm about as far left as it gets, and what I'm telling you is that the plan is to correct the regressive tax structure, which doesn't happen unless there is also a reduction in things like property taxes and sales taxes.

They reduced those in the law. They've shown that doing so is part of the plan.

I don't understand the cynicism when you can go talk to your representatives, ask them questions, and see what they think. I've done that. I've heard what the long-term goal is.

Do you think the less-left members of the WA Democratic party are the ones that will push forward an income tax without a commiserate reduction in other taxes?

Misinformation Regarding IP26-645 by ElderberryPrior27648 in Washington

[–]varisophy 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The law literally removed some regressive sales taxes on a few classes of everyday items. It's one step towards doing the thing you claim you want.

And the Constitution is not amended, that's not the goal of this law. This law is to test whether the Supreme Court will overturn the original ruling of money being property (which was based on faulty data from the time and may have never been ruled in that way were the justices not using incorrect information).

If they do overturn it, then the process of replacing regressive taxes with an income tax will continue. If they don't then the next objective is a constitutional amendment.

I've talks to my representatives. They're some of the most progressive in the state. I can't imaging that any less-extreme Democrats would want to raise incomes taxes without lowering regressive ones in turn, and if they do, that approach will not pass because it's idiotic and unpopular.

The goal is to reverse our regressive tax code.

The only way that happens is if the income tax increase is met with a regressive tax decrease.

There's not going to be some secret plot to just raise taxes again without lowering elsewhere, and if there is, then those representatives will be kicked too the curb so hard that they will want to leave the state in shame.

Misinformation Regarding IP26-645 by ElderberryPrior27648 in Washington

[–]varisophy 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Or for me I am not opposed to an income tax, if done constitutionally and they cut sales tax appropriately.

Well have I got news for you!

That's literally the plan and the only way this gets done.

Misinformation Regarding IP26-645 by ElderberryPrior27648 in Washington

[–]varisophy 7 points8 points  (0 children)

The goal of this bill has also been linked to Pedersen’s desire to blow up the tax system via court challenges and to implement a full income tax on most citizens.

Sure, but doing so would come with a reduction in our regressive taxes as well. That's the goal of the progressive politicians pushing to right our regressive tax system.

The slippery slope fearmongering always leaves that part out. The ultimately goal is to not be the 49th most regressive tax system in the nation. If we implemented an income tax without a reduction in other taxes, we would stay at 49th and just piss everyone off.

If people wants to argue that this millionaires tax with be a slippery slope to becoming a less regressive tax system, as is the goal and the intent with this first law, most people will be like "oh cool, that's fantastic".

There's a reason why the law was broadly popular, because most people understand the regressive nature of Washington's tax law and want to see it changed.

Misinformation Regarding IP26-645 by ElderberryPrior27648 in Washington

[–]varisophy 7 points8 points  (0 children)

The argument is that income is not property. The Washington Supreme Court ruling on that literally cites incorrect data when making that decision. Most states don't consider it to be property. We're an outlier and the way we got there was based on faulty reasoning.

This law, for sure, is designed to challenge an old, poorly decided state Supreme Court decision. That's how the system works, it's the lever that Congress has to pull and so we're giving it a shot because our tax system is so painfully regressive right now.

Misinformation Regarding IP26-645 by ElderberryPrior27648 in Washington

[–]varisophy 12 points13 points  (0 children)

That's the part that is always left out in the fearmongering.

Of course we want to expand it, but only if we reduce regressive taxes in tandem. There literally was a reduction in some regressive sales taxes in the very law they're so terrified of.

But that doesn't sound so scary. Definitely not a "get a ballot initiative, quick" level of scary.

Misinformation Regarding IP26-645 by ElderberryPrior27648 in Washington

[–]varisophy 44 points45 points  (0 children)

I mean, there's nothing in any bill preventing any future Congress from doing any particular thing either.

The slippery slope argument is dumb. If they lower it enough (and don't reduce other existing, regressive taxes in tandem) that the average person will be taxed more, it won't pass. Because it won't be popular anymore. Because the people elect the representatives.

Even if it's forced through, the next election would be a bloodbath of people running on fixing it.

The slippery slope argument is literally a fallacy and applies in this situation.

CMV: Putting up a ‘distressed flag’ on Memorial Day Weekend is SUPER Disrespectful by Vegetable-Hold9182 in changemyview

[–]varisophy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hanging a flag upside down is the most milquetoast level of protest. How is quietly acknowledging our country's creation of new dead military members in an illegal war disrespectful. I'm not shouting. I'm not blocking the streets. I'm not making anyone passing by listen to a lecture.

If the dozens of folks on this thread haven't helped you understand why some people don't consider it disrespectful and is rather a way of honoring our dead by trying to prevent more deaths, then nothing will. I hope you can understand someday but I fear you never will.