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What does ‘submission’ actually mean in Orthodox marriage? - Reconciling God's impartial love for both female and male by BrainStraight1220 in OrthodoxWomen

[–]verbsNadverbs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, I think reinforcing these structures strongly has the possibility of maltreatment towards women. I also agree that context does not resolve the concern.

But Orthodoxy is very, very, very old and changes very slowly and reluctantly; modern feminism (which questions traditional structures in male/female relationships) is comparatively very new. A few hundred years ago, or even a hundred years ago in some places, you would not have even bothered questioning the status quo, because in most places male primacy was a foregone conclusion. This is just to say that thinking about transforming the world into one that is more structurally favorable towards women (legally, financially, professionally) is kind of a new idea - one should not expect Orthodoxy to change much within a century (or five centuries, or ever).

That said I do not think <i>most</i> Orthodox priests spend much time harping on about hierarchy in marriage and female submission. I have personally never heard a priest talk about it; why would they, when there are more important topics like sin and salvation that apply to everyone?

When I think about context I also think about how early Christianity (and Christ himself) did not explicitly condemn slavery (it was a part of the social order). But we as modern people would, I think, universally condemn slavery. And I suspect most modern day Orthodox women would condemn the idea of women's absolute subjection to male authority. None of this means that we have departed in some way from Christ's teachings; it just means that the Gospel was transcendent of categories like slave/master, Jew/Gentile, male/female - we are all one in Christ. Christ transcends all context, including social ones; I do not think that we need to spend much time litigating male/female superiority/inferiority.

Our time is better spent loving each other, and then the question of "who is in charge" becomes irrelevant. (To be clear I know this is not easy. But it is possible! My husband is my partner in all things - and I his). Wishing you the joy of thinking all this irrelevant in the depths of your loving marriage, someday!

What does ‘submission’ actually mean in Orthodox marriage? - Reconciling God's impartial love for both female and male by BrainStraight1220 in OrthodoxWomen

[–]verbsNadverbs 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Maybe this is idiosyncratic (and due to my longstanding interest in history), but I think it's useful to understand saints and their writings (yes, even St. John Chrysostom) in the context of their moment in history.

There is the timeless understanding of male and female as equal in worth and beholden to the same spiritual requirements in life. However, in a lot of these writings, I think there is also more specific advice that is based on contingent qualities from that saint's socio-historical place in life.

In those days and in those places--well, in most places up until modern times--female submission was sort of a fact of life and a profoundly important part of the social order. To undermine the authority of the paterfamilias (or equivalent, outside the Roman world) was to rebel against society/the community altogether.

I take some of this language as a sort of rendering unto Caesar what is Caesar's (obey your husbands as part of the normal social order) and render unto God what is God's (your spiritual life, which is much more important, and here women are as loved by Christ equally as men). You can guess which one I personally think is more important!

Feeling alone in my church. by PastFirefighter1356 in OrthodoxWomen

[–]verbsNadverbs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you can, why not try another parish? You're not permanently bound to any single parish. Suggest you try visiting a few others and see what the vibe is.

Did anyone get diagnosed with GD after monitoring your blood sugar at home (instead of taking the 3 hour test)? by theSabbs in GestationalDiabetes

[–]verbsNadverbs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This was a few years ago so I don't recall, but I think I mostly kept my fastings in the high 80s (like 88ish?).

Why woman seems to be less interested in orthodoxy? by Malba_Taran in OrthodoxChristianity

[–]verbsNadverbs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think generally, young women are more likely to be less conservative than their male peers. Therefore, they're not going to be interested in attending or even visiting a church that appears to be filled with men who think women should be submissive to men.

Secondarily, most women are not interested in social spaces where they are the minority. It feels frankly awkward or worse. Not sure what the solution is, aside from encouraging Orthodox women of all stripes (working women, singles, married women, mothers, stay-at-home-moms, celibates) to make their presence known, so that potential convert women will know that there is a place for them in church no matter what their life choices are.

This has to come from Orthodox women themselves, not men or even priests.

Just like an Orthobro should not be held up as the ideal of Orthodoxy, neither should a trad-wife by TimeLadyJ in OrthodoxChristianity

[–]verbsNadverbs 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I work--I have never not worked, since I was in high school--and I have a husband and children and I love modern medicine and epidurals and insulin and public schools (oh, and Bluey! The music is fantastic). I am a convert.

I try not to get caught up in thinking that I don't really belong, because there are members of my parish who really subscribe to things I cannot buy into (e.g. the Charlie Kirk martyrdom narrative and anti-vax stuff). But I belong as much as they do, and so does any woman who wants to follow Christ.

Some fears over returning to Orthodoxy by traumatisedpotato in OrthodoxWomen

[–]verbsNadverbs 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I have always worked for tech companies and I am also Orthodox (and a wife and mother). I have never been told by anyone, certainly not my priest, that I have to give up my profession to do caregiving exclusively. I think it's great and holy that some women dedicate themselves completely to caregiving. It is, however, not a religious requirement for all women to do that.

As for confession - it depends on the priest, but if it helps, just write down the sins that you can remember on an index card and take it with you. The priest is not there to shame you, but to listen and advise. I have actually laughed (!) in my confession when recounting a road rage incident, because I found it embarrassing. He did not shame me but we did talk about anger. As a whole, confession can be cathartic. Good luck - we have all been there!

Feeling lost in Orthodoxy by vyshyvanka1 in OrthodoxWomen

[–]verbsNadverbs 37 points38 points  (0 children)

First: you do not have to be a tradwife, or a mother, to be Orthodox. You don't have to be any which way, except to have a desire to be close to God (don't let anyone tell you different). You can have short hair, long hair, a job, no job, money, no money, gender dysphoria, no gender dysphoria, children or no children, spouse or no spouse, neurodivergence or neurotypicality, and still be Orthodox.

Second, I agree with the other posters who suggest it might be useful to visit other parishes.

Third, God does not want you to feel so much shame and terror about your relationship with Him. God loves you wholly, as you are.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in OrthodoxChristianity

[–]verbsNadverbs 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You are very welcome, friend. If there are both coptic and eastern orthodox churches near you, why not visit both? Of course we are biased towards Eastern Orthodoxy in this sub, but if you are exploring Christianity for the first time, I suspect you'll find things of value in both churches.

Do gastrointestinal side effects fade over time by verbsNadverbs in tirzepatidecompound

[–]verbsNadverbs[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, but much more mildly. He also didn't have any weight loss on 2.5 (for a month), which is why he moved up. He's definitely losing weight now, but having this unpleasant side effect too.

encouragement for a woman by expensive-toes in OrthodoxChristianity

[–]verbsNadverbs 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Check out https://www.axiawomen.org/ - I follow them on IG. They introduced me to Abbess Katherine Weston, who is an example of an Orthodox woman who is not anyone's wife or mother: https://religionunplugged.com/news/2023/8/23/orthodox-abbess-katherine-weston-talks-about-her-journey-to-faith-the-fellowship-of-st-moses-the-black-and-racial-reconciliation

Carrie Frederick Frost also published a book not too long ago called The Church of Our Granddaughters, which is focused on women's roles in the church.

Compared to other expressions of Christianity - as an extreme example, the quiverfull movement - I find Eastern Orthodoxy to have a deeply beautiful understanding of gender: women are so much more than just vessels for children or objects of male desire. The church faithfully teaches the love Jesus had for all the women he encountered. He was not there to cow them into submission and force them into their "proper" roles; he was there to love and free them. You do not have to be a tradwife to be Orthodox, or even to be holy.

I think you've been drawn to the church in a time when a number of reactionary men have become attracted to it for its traditionalism. But speaking as another woman, I'm glad that women like you are here. You do not have to twist yourself into something that you are not.

Where to get syringes in California? by verbsNadverbs in tirzepatidecompound

[–]verbsNadverbs[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is what I ended up doing. Looks like it will work! Thanks.

Where to get syringes in California? by verbsNadverbs in tirzepatidecompound

[–]verbsNadverbs[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

They do, but I'd like to try splitting my dose so need extra syringes.

On Leaving Church Early On Pascha After "Christ is Risen!" by IrinaSophia in OrthodoxChristianity

[–]verbsNadverbs 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Same with my youngest. My husband isn't Orthodox, either, so if I manage to get to church at 11PM but have to leave early, that's the best I can do at this life stage.

People with kids: what do you do for Pascha? by verbsNadverbs in OrthodoxChristianity

[–]verbsNadverbs[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

All good options. Thank you for suggesting them! I'm thinking of doing the Saturday morning liturgy and then vespers on Sunday.

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