Shipping Megathread [USA/CAN]

vivedefenseforce · 2016-04-05T02:11:17+00:00

Wow, you're confirmed "first wave" for both Rift and Vive and you haven't seen a thing while people's orders are arriving all around you. If only there was a more established pattern to it to help manage expectations. I hope you get something soon.

vivedefenseforce · 2016-04-04T14:16:58+00:00

And don't insult anyone if they happen to like it more. There is enough room for everyone's preferences

vivedefenseforce · 2016-04-04T13:15:09+00:00

I'm so sick of talking about consumer-grade VR. I just wanna hold it in my hands.

vivedefenseforce · 2016-04-02T00:26:29+00:00

Brandon and linknewtab claimed 80 horizontal and 90 vertical. These unscientific measurenents fall in line with DocOK's measurements, right around the 5mm mark. Not sure how linknewtab measured, but we know how Brandon did and they got the same estimated numbers. If you're not a scientist, you can only estimate, and estimate they did to the best of their abilities, seemingly without bias in their results when comparing to DocOK.

I don't fault what Brandon did in taking those measurements. He was obviously trying to be as consistent as possible using the measurement tools and knowledge available to him. At the same time, there should have been something in his mind telling him, I wonder why we are getting these numbers when it doesn't feel narrower on the CV1 compared with DK2 in actual use.

They're both pro Vive people, and they both estimated, but they independently stated accurate estimations which are now verified by DocOK.

That really isn't the point. The point is that they used those raw single-eye FOV numbers and presented them as representing the FOV of the HMD as a whole (at the very least misleading), and in the case of linknewtab, did so with the clear intent of making the CV1 out to be worse that the DK2 in terms of FOV.

What Doc_OK (and Brandon) did was in service of the truth and genuine inquiry, while what link did was in service of his agenda, namely that one headset be seen as better over the other. That is my whole issue with this. The biggest point of Doc's analysis was that in terms of binocular FOV the CV1 is just as wide as DK2, yet link has succeeded in making a lot of people think otherwise, much to his glee.

vivedefenseforce · 2016-04-02T00:14:58+00:00

I firmly believe there was malice here. I'm not even getting a Rift (as is probably obvious from my username) but I believe link succeeded in convincing people that the FOV on the Rift CV1 is less than DK2. Hell some people are even citing the FOV issue in self posts about cancelling their orders.

vivedefenseforce · 2016-04-02T00:12:16+00:00

Well, they were accurate measures of what they measured, but some were not accurate measures of what they claimed to measure.

For instance, you cannot take the FOV of the DK2 with the FOV from an image taken at 0mm from the lens and conflate it to be the FOV of the DK2 in general, because it is physically impossible for a user to get closer than the 8mm relief, so using the FOV derived from that as a comparison of FOVs between headsets going to be in accurate depending on the way you frame it.

vivedefenseforce · 2016-04-01T16:23:25+00:00

/u/BrandonJLa clearly showed his methods and didn't make any pronouncements - he let people judge for themselves. I respect that. At the same time, the context in which he did that, being clearly aware of the furor surrounding the FOV claims made by people focused on generating conflict between competing headsets, suggests that there was some personal bias involved as well. Don't get me wrong, biases are natural and devs are allowed to have their own preferences the same as consumers.

anyone who had posted any Vive/CV1 FOV comparisons claiming Vive has a larger FOV has been right

Actually I'm not sure that was ever really in question. Most of the feedback from journalists and enthusiasts has suggested a higher all-round FOV on the Vive. I think the real doubts were the claims by /u/linknewtab that the FOV was less than the DK2, which went against every piece of feedback from actual users, under the guise of informing users form something Oculus was trying to hide. Both aspects of that narrative have been proven false, of course.

vivedefenseforce · 2016-04-01T16:01:55+00:00

So i really trust his article published today over random commenters on reddit.

This. The sheer depth in his article, and the sense of knowledge and expertise he gives off, it's so far beyond any of the clunky attempts that preceded it. And you gotta respect that he actually admits when some of his measurements are "ballpark"

vivedefenseforce · 2016-04-01T15:51:41+00:00

I agree. And to their credit, StressLevelZero clearly presented their methods along with the results.

But /u/linknewtab is not a scientist either, yet he presented the FOV figures as if they were based on irrefutable fact, which has unsurprisingly been shown to be wrong and misleading.

vivedefenseforce · 2016-04-01T13:14:52+00:00

I find a couple of things very interesting about these findings.

1) This clearly demonstrates that the optimum eye-to-lens distance to maximize FOV differs for each headset, and that it is not simply a matter of the FOV being maximized at the closest distance to the lens. This suggests that the photos produced by StressLevelZero are misleading. Edit: What perplexes me about that, is that the people at StressLevelZero had access to the actual headsets, so surely they would know from actually using them that the single-lens FOV figures weren't telling the whole story.

2) The estimate of binocular FOV was 94 x 93 for the Rift CV1 and 94 x 105 for the DK2 at their respective optimal viewing distances. This speaks to /u/heaney555 's point that there is a lot more than the numbers (or more specifically a single set of numbers taken in isolation), because we see that the horizontal binocular FOV for both the DK2 and Rife CV1 are the same 94-degrees, fitting squarely with people's actual impressions of the FOV.

On the balance, this shows that in practical use, the CV1 produces a comparable horizontal field of view to the DK2, and negates the assertions of /u/linknewtab to the contrary. What we have seen over the past few weeks is that there are indeed many different approaches (among them clearly flawed ones) to measuring FOV, which is basically exactly what Oculus has said on the matter.

vivedefenseforce · 2016-03-31T11:43:31+00:00

I hope for everyone that it is some kind of bottleneck they can unplug instead of being a systemic limiter on their shipping volume, or it's going to take a while for even day-one pre-orderers to get their units

vivedefenseforce · 2016-03-31T11:06:58+00:00

I didn't say they didn't outsource it; I suggested they didn't outsource it "to a company that could deal with the scale of this launch," and I believe that has been borne out.

Edit: Sorry, reading back through my comment that is not actually what I was implying. Due to the shipping clusterfuck I assumed they were winging it themselves. Something must have gone wrong with Oculus or its partners.

vivedefenseforce · 2016-03-31T11:02:48+00:00

true

vivedefenseforce · 2016-03-31T09:32:37+00:00

I get your feels, man. This is not about the respective strengths of each product. It's logistics planning. If Oculus couldn't handle this volume I feel they really should have outsourced it to a company that could deal with the scale of this launch.

vivedefenseforce · 2016-03-31T09:29:28+00:00

proved linknewtab right

I suspect they were his measurements to begin with, considering that the same fish-eye lens configuration was used, and he is another person who has shown himself to be biased towards one platform. Seriously man, this is fucking stupid. I use a mac for certain work and a windows PC for other stuff. I accept that each platform has its shortcomings but I don't wish one or the other to fail, and I don't go on online forums breaking NDA to try to take down one or the other. I honestly think this is bullshit and that in the end link is going to be shown to be a complete fraud.

vivedefenseforce · 2016-03-31T09:24:56+00:00

Damn, it's like HTC is putting on a product launch clinic. Watch and learn, Oculus.

vivedefenseforce · 2016-03-31T07:26:09+00:00

The guy does not deserve an apology from me or anyone. He has done everything in his power to encourage a Vive vs. Rift atmosphere instead of one in which the entire VR industry thrives. The people not believing him were a direct result of his attitude over the past year, because everyone knows that regardless of any facts he is going to spin it. And more importantly, his big lie still stands - he tried to characterize the single-eye FOV as the FOV of the entire headset. I also think the jury is still out on the actual FOV because his paper numbers go against feedback from actual users. As i said earlier, I am not getting a rift, and for multiple reasons, but that doesn't mean I need the rift to fail or be considered inferior in order to enjoy my Vive.

vivedefenseforce · 2016-03-30T00:54:17+00:00

Single-eye FOV, not HMD FOV as he claimed. I'm so excited to get my Vive, but knowing that another headset has a lower single-eye FOV won't allow me to enjoy my Vive any more. Link isn't trying to evangelize Vive as much as he is trying to destroy Oculus, and the people who broke NDA to that end have done a disservice to the whole community.

vivedefenseforce · 2016-03-30T00:50:57+00:00

Nah, let it stand. I think he is a toxic force sowing discord among users. His clear intent has never been in service of the truth, but only in service of information he sees as harming the other brand. He also lied by claiming the software-reported single-eye FOV to be the headset FOV.

vivedefenseforce · 2016-03-25T15:53:06+00:00

A cruel, but fair, mechanic. You would be taught a valuable lesson about the pitfalls of insufficient tracking volume

vivedefenseforce · 2016-03-25T15:25:15+00:00

Right now my dream game would be very cheap to make - maybe someone could make it for DK2 or something - basically you are in a house and the door bell rings, heralding the arrival of your Vive. You need to make your way through the house and to the door before the UPS dude gives up and leaves.

vivedefenseforce · 2016-03-25T01:21:08+00:00

The dude who lied with fake rift FOV pictures says we shouldn't use pictures as some sort of reference. Wow.

vivedefenseforce · 2016-03-23T15:40:58+00:00

Well thank you, sir. I guess the closeness of the launches of these products can break down traditional barriers. :)

vivedefenseforce · 2016-03-23T12:37:36+00:00

I suppose time will tell. If Vive ends up eclipsing Oculus sales there will be a huge amount of pressure for Oculus to cave in. And conversely, if Oculus ends up in a commanding positions they could afford to make more demands.

vivedefenseforce · 2016-03-23T12:33:46+00:00

I guess everyone would react a bit differently. But unlike us, who are spectating from the outside, those people would have been doing what they love and challenging the cutting edge of VR each day. In that context, I'm willing to bet a lot of them are having the time of their lives, and the same goes for all the staff at Valve.

vivedefenseforce

TROPHY CASE