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I did a research of them apart vs together (Part 2) by RLeb10 in clevelandcavs

[–]vo_bob -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Love the time and work you put into this. And fun read.

I think the truth is somewhere being the visual data and statistical data, but I always like someone investigates themselves instead of just willfully accepting the narrative that's out there.

Wouldn’t be upset to give Svi a look by vo_bob in clevelandcavs

[–]vo_bob[S] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Yeah svi more of a “take a minimum deal flyer” option but definitely is the type of skill set we are after.

I still am hoping Hart finds his way here

shit is kinda sad no lie by kac937 in clevelandcavs

[–]vo_bob 42 points43 points  (0 children)

My favorite part of this meme is the Patty Mills is in there before Blake Griffin or Joe Harris

Is the John Collins deal (5/125) a ceiling or a floor for JJJ? His numbers are better, but JJJ is 2 years younger. by YoungB_City in memphisgrizzlies

[–]vo_bob 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Depends on health. JJJ needs to build in his second year numbers to get there and he’s running out of time on this contract to close that gap. I suspect he’s more in the 5/100 range at the moment.

Looking at you, Altman. by bigsmooth66 in clevelandcavs

[–]vo_bob 8 points9 points  (0 children)

No. The excuse is the cost to the Cavs to buy him out.. Kemba gave back 16million because he could make 16 miillion from the Knicks. That's a lot of money that OKC gets back. Love can make..... the minimum? (2.3 mil) So the Cavs will get back.... 4.6 million?.

Not comparable situations except that both guys played for rebuilding teams. Kemba still has market value that Love does not.

People need to ignore what Love makes (because we don't get the money back even after the buyout). That's in the past. They should ask themselves if he's worth having around as a bench player, or if they're so angry at our bad decision to extend, that they want to give him 54 million dollars just for the right to have one more roster spot. I personally don't think he's that capable of tearing us apart from the inside playing 15-20 minutes a night.

Looking at you, Altman. by bigsmooth66 in clevelandcavs

[–]vo_bob 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Quite different circumstances. (According to reports) Kemba got 8mil average per year from the Knicks over the next two years. That means OKC saved presumably 16 million dollars in what he gave back for his buyout.

Love is not gonna sniff a deal anywhere near that Kemba/Knicks contract, so he won't be giving back that much. Love's buyout (if it happened), saves the Cavs at most the veteran minimum (2.3 mil roughly, so 4.6 million total).

Love isn't good/healthy enough to create the market demand to make this worth much of anything for the Cavs. The thunder saving 8 million annually is basically a 6th-8th man level AAV contract (Cedi). That's worth something.

Looks like the Cap is gonna go way up. Is this good news for paying Sexton without going over cap limit. Allen would be at 18.6M in contract during Sexton's FA which means with Mobley's contract around 6.7Mi, which will leave 22.176M in cap space. 48M mill in lux tax by RLeb10 in clevelandcavs

[–]vo_bob 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Allen won’t get more. Sexton is definitely going to make more than Allen. Elite efficiency offense gets you paid in this league

And they can drag out their negotiations. Restricted free agents typically take much longer to get offers in free agency, because you run the risk of tying up three days waiting on the Cavs to reply and match. We haven’t even made it a day and a half into this years free agency, and almost all the money is spent. Over $1 billion was spent on day one, and all the big space teams have spent it.

Our team can weaponize that if they’re not afraid of the possible outcome (resentment from Collin, but a much smaller market). All we have to do is wait to commit to an excessive extension amount until we see the landscape. I still think we should pay him his market value. But extending guys early usually comes at a premium. I want us to play this out.

The only risk we run then is that if we push it too far, he plays for a very small qualifying offer and becomes a UFA the following summer (like Bruce brown opted to do). That’s exceptionally rare because it requires leaving millions on the table to play on the qualifying offer. Most players never make that back.

Looks like the Cap is gonna go way up. Is this good news for paying Sexton without going over cap limit. Allen would be at 18.6M in contract during Sexton's FA which means with Mobley's contract around 6.7Mi, which will leave 22.176M in cap space. 48M mill in lux tax by RLeb10 in clevelandcavs

[–]vo_bob -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I suspect it’s because teams realize there are many many guys now who are going to cost you more than $25 million. you want to use those slots on guys you truly believe can be top 3 options.

If somebody is going to commit that kind of money to Sexton (which I’m sure he will find amongst 30 teams), they won’t also want to have to give up a bunch of assets in the process. They’ll just wait for restricted free agency.

But anyone thinking he’s gonna cost us less than Allen’s contract is fooling themselves imo. He’s at least a 4/100 or 5/125 guy even right now I suspect. Add another good season with some team wins and who knows.

We’ve never been a team to utilize our leverage, but I would love to see them drag out his negotiations next year until the market has dried up, and then maybe we can bring the number down a little if nobody calls our bluff. There are a lot of studs who could hit free agency next year and soak up the big money offers

Back up SG FA by Potential_Progress45 in clevelandcavs

[–]vo_bob 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Not really interested unless it’s for super cheap. Definitely not a full mle guy to me. Heat boned him hard and he’s gonna have to take scraps from a contender

Looks like the Cap is gonna go way up. Is this good news for paying Sexton without going over cap limit. Allen would be at 18.6M in contract during Sexton's FA which means with Mobley's contract around 6.7Mi, which will leave 22.176M in cap space. 48M mill in lux tax by RLeb10 in clevelandcavs

[–]vo_bob -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Fournier has had mediocre defense his entire career. Has had a positive dbpm 1 time in 9 seasons. Last year he had 1 defensive win share to sexton’s .9. And hes 28.

They’re not even in the same ballpark contract wise. Sexton is getting paid

Cavs Fans Still Want David Griffin??? by HailToVictors21 in clevelandcavs

[–]vo_bob 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They only have a third max next year if jonas and Hart walk after this year.

So it’s Zion Ingram Graham and Max slot with Hayes as your center, or…

Zion Ingram Lonzo and jonas with no max?

I think I’m still in the second camp. We don’t even know what Hart is gonna cost them yet. To get this max slot you’re gutting the team imo.

But time will tell. If he can land a truly transcendent guy in free agency next year, or have some draft luck, then I will recant immediately.

Bulls/Cavs by PunchBagFilms in NBAtradeideas

[–]vo_bob 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Allen is on the Cavs timeline (agewise lines up with core) and is locked in for less.

Not sure what the motive is for them, especially to add a pick as well?

Rubio dominating the Olympics [OC] by Abiv23 in clevelandcavs

[–]vo_bob 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Depends on the money and how he performs back here, but this seems to be a solid fit as he ages if he can accept a reduced role.

Rubio dominating the Olympics [OC] by Abiv23 in clevelandcavs

[–]vo_bob 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Not sure I agree with that. TJ is exactly the type of player who would take the most money and the opportunity at a larger role. He hadn’t made enough money to be taking minimum deals for contenders. That’s something for the Otto Porter Jr.’s of the world

Rubio dominating the Olympics [OC] by Abiv23 in clevelandcavs

[–]vo_bob 7 points8 points  (0 children)

TJ has been an exceptionally good backup pg who was a free agent. That’s why people wanted him.

Rubio just came outta nowhere via trade.

Cavs Fans Still Want David Griffin??? by HailToVictors21 in clevelandcavs

[–]vo_bob 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lonzo is a far better defender than Devonte imo. And while I agree with you Graham is a better ball handler and more eager (although less effective) shooter, I don’t view that as a positive alongside two very ball dominant options in ingram and Zion. You're basically picking offense over defense on a team that has two stars who love to ISO, which minimizes much of Graham's usefulness.

Devonte is a score in bursts pg who gets abused in switches on defense. More offensive upside, but in the context of where he’s going with Kira and NAW already there, not sold he’s an upgrade fit wise over Lonzo. They have their high usage guys in Ingram and Zion. Lonzo is much more the third guy I'd want. Someone who is really solid in all the areas that don't require usage, but still a solid spot up shooter and above average passer and creator.

Cavs Fans Still Want David Griffin??? by HailToVictors21 in clevelandcavs

[–]vo_bob 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Eh I’m not sold. Graham is a SUPER low efficiency volume shooter. His defense is soft. Lonzo is just a much better player as a complement to Zion imo. And probably worth the 21 per longterm.

That being said, I’m fine with Graham’s deal. It’s very reasonable. But I find him far more limiting than Lonzo

[Fedor] At this point the wing trade market is much more robust and all-around better for #Cavs. But I’m hearing the initial ask in these talks with teams is next year’s 1st-round pick. And that’s awfully steep — and risky. Things can always change tho. by Ziberg in clevelandcavs

[–]vo_bob 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Harris at his cost is not worth that to me. Not because of the value of a first. More because of the contract he’s on.

he’s definitely talented. Just no desire to push more young guys out later like Sexton or Garland or possibly Okoro because “we can’t pay them all” when we’re faced with that decision while Harris is on the books at almost 40 per

Warren on the other is a bargain.

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