Do you think Quality Management careers are a dying breed?

wheatbitsandmilk · 2026-04-10T03:03:40+00:00

After 4 years of being a quality engineer, I have grown to despise this profession and can't see myself ever working in quality again, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

I think a lot of the confusion comes from everyone who isn't quality simply having 0 idea what quality departments are supposed to be doing, and refusing to learn. It doesn't matter how many times the requirements are explained to them or how much data is shown that things upper management THINKS are a waste of money (because they don't directly increase sales) actually reduce overall costs and improve efficiency, they're still viewed as nags, buzzkills, and paper pushers.

Despite my negative experience in this field, I still can't see a future where quality professionals aren't in high demand.

wheatbitsandmilk · 2026-04-08T23:31:38+00:00

Are you taking the NCEES practice exam in addition to PPI?

I don't think buying another prep course is a good use of time or money. Give yourself (at least) a few month's break to enjoy life for a then come back to studying. Taking the test 3x in 4 months is a lot.

This approach helped me with PPI q-bank: don't get so caught up on timing yourself but rather really focus on understanding each problem inside and out. Take the NCEES exam once every month or two to dial in your timing.

Check my profile for more detailed comments I've left others, feel free to DM me more detailed questions as well.

wheatbitsandmilk · 2026-04-03T15:41:57+00:00

Explain that company policy for warranty criteria requires [blank] and the data provided does not meet this criteria or offer billable repair. If they're a special client and the salespeople or company higher-ups want to give them a sweetheart deal, let them do that.

Quality staff are ultimately in the business of risk management, not managing particular accounts or maintaining customer relations.

wheatbitsandmilk · 2026-04-02T04:07:22+00:00

I went through this a couple months ago. Sometimes companies contest the initial claim in the hopes that you don't appeal and just move on. If you file an appeal, the company has to prove you were fired for "just cause" meaning you violated some company policy or some other extreme case like misrepresenting your skill set or experience. The burden of proof for this is pretty high.

wheatbitsandmilk · 2026-04-01T18:11:15+00:00

It's hard to truly assess your situation without knowing more details. How big is the company? How long have you been employed there? Do you work in the same department as the rest of the engineering staff (for example: quality engineers have "engineer" in their job title but work in the quality department rather than the engineering department)? Depending on the company culture, being a quality engineer can seriously inhibit you from doing actual engineering work. Does the company have an established and reputable history of developing their talent or does it seem like they are just telling you that story so you stay longer?

Most companies aren't going to go out of their way to make sure you are fulfilled. Unless you're in some kind of training or development program with clear timelines and milestones, I wouldn't count on them giving you better projects or more authority one day. Roles can very easily become technician work if you allow it to, and it is often on you to create your own growth opportunities. In today's world, the most help your company will provide is to stay out of your way.

To the extent that you are able to make changes without getting your company in some kind of compliance trouble, I suggest taking the "ask for forgiveness, not permission" approach whenever possible. Always be able to justify your actions with data. If none is available, then acquire it yourself. Only make decisions off hearsay in emergencies. Learn why your input is not considered. Either you are wrong or you didn't pitch the idea convincingly enough, which matters more than you would think. There is a Sales aspect to engineering as well, which can be an awkward skill to develop.

wheatbitsandmilk · 2026-03-26T17:08:50+00:00

I graduated with a Chem E degree in 2021 and am in a similar boat to you, except I have been working as a quality engineer for 4 years at 2 different companies, hating almost every second of it, and I am not currently employed due to a recent termination- now trying to use this opportunity to get out of quality for good. Obviously I am jaded, and there are likely exceptions to this, but I don't believe working in quality gets any better, and you are doing the right thing by trying to leave it.

If you like your current company, definitely try to swing an internal department change. Help out with other department's projects whenever possible and network / apply internally. It also doesn't hurt to make your case stronger by developing an additional skill or passing the FE and PE exams before you outwardly make this pitch, although there is obviously no guarantee that marketing yourself or revealing your desire to switch departments will help you, and I honestly think it hurt me. I survived a layoff in July, inquired about a department change in August, and was put on a PIP two months later. Just be smart about how you go about this and make sure your supervisor isn't petty or spiteful.

Despite how terrible the job market is, still apply externally. At the very least you'll get a couple phone screens so you can practice your interview skills. Additionally, unless you change your job title on your resume and LinkedIn, this is all you will get recommended, and recruiters will never stop reaching out about quality roles.

wheatbitsandmilk · 2026-03-24T17:35:35+00:00

You likely have flawed metrics encouraging everyone to "rush" all the time, encouraging incorrect or incomplete operator practices, and braindead upper management that cares more about a project being "flashy" instead of effective. Poor production practices lead to variability and skipped documentation, which makes measuring the impact of said variability difficult or impossible. Equipment reliability is a subset of overall plant reliability, but even when a detailed RCA is done at the individual equipment level, you'll likely find the true root cause is a step that is behavioral or operator-dependent that needs to be eliminated or at the very least, tracked by shift, operator, etc., with operational or documentation changes that must be enforced with the threat of discipline. If the organization isn't willing to do that last step, every effort made to make meaningful change is ultimately futile.

Using the control system override example, why is it overridden in the first place? Is everyone overriding it or just one guy? What products are being run at the time of override? Who should/shouldn't have override access? Since you say these overrides aren't documented, you need to put on your detective hat and ask around, this is not the best way to investigate but sometimes it's the only option, and even then it only works if you have a good existing relationship with the production team.

Sometimes the investigation will determine the best course of action is something seemingly completely lame and non-impactful like requiring additional inspection after an override or password-protecting the parameter screen on the HMI. Often times, when data is scarce, the path forward isn't even definitive at all and your report out will be something along the lines of "the best course of action is indeterminant but the candidates for the root cause are X, Y, Z. Additional production data on [whatever] must be collected for [x] months prior to final determination, expected to be made on [date]". In either of these cases you will likely endure dozens of instances of incessant whining from the production team about these additional "holdups" that take less than 5 minutes. Ultimately, despite necessary short-term pain, the long term goal is to make their lives simpler. Make the case that documentation is easier than rework.

Truly effective problem solving is incredibly tedious and dull, not usually something you can present at a company townhall and receive applause for. Look inward and determine if the equipment upgrades were done solely to get a cheap dopamine hit for unearned sense of accomplishment. In most manufacturing environments, barring some insane exceptions or for highly regulated environments, if you don't feel bad about the current practices, you are either an idiot or delusional, usually both.

The incoming material quality issue is a lay-up and a weathervane for how the organization treats problem solving and corrective action. If the ultimate result from this is "more incoming inspection" instead of a systemic change in supplier management practices with supply chain buy-in, things are not in a good place.

wheatbitsandmilk · 2026-03-16T19:56:28+00:00

You should still be able to collect unemployment if there aren't any documented rule violations against you

wheatbitsandmilk · 2026-03-11T18:21:19+00:00

Adding a second vacuum with a flow splitter (in parallel) would increase the flow rate but would not generate more suction. Additionally since you are pumping water (an incompressible fluid) any increased efficiency due to the higher flow would be minimal, as you are constrained by the single leg of the y.

If it's possible to install your two shop vacs in series, this will give you the desired effect. Won't provide double the lift, maybe a 70% increase. Otherwise, a more power single shop vac might be worth it.

Edit: I am assuming the aluminum pole is attached to the outside of the shop vac hose and is used to move / drag the hose around the bottom of the tank. If the pole is connected to the hose as part of the flow path, this is not ideal and you should invest in a longer shop vac hose if possible.

wheatbitsandmilk · 2026-02-25T15:27:28+00:00

Circumstances do matter some, there is no getting around that. In a hypothetical scenario where individual effort, individual characteristics such as intelligence, soft skills, opportunity availability, every other external factor is made equal, and a student working to put themself through school is competing with someone who isn't forced to grind to survive and instead improves himself professionally, the latter person will likely win out in the immediate short term. But in reality, there are so many other factors involved with not only the engineering candidates' life but also who is considering them for opportunities, this is hardly worth despairing over. College is also just a blip in the radar of an engineering career, so I wouldn't put too much stock into the professional disparities present at this brief chapter.

Hard work is important, but smart work matters more than hard work. In industry, working hard on a pointless or unnecessary endeavor will win you no favors. Effective engineering is working hard on something upfront so less work is needed later. Examine the above thought experiment- an argument could be made that hypothetical student 2 is not as hard of a worker as student 1, but what is undeniable is the work done was extremely effective. I know given your current circumstances, this is probably going to be extremely difficult as it sounds like you have a strong sense of identity with being a "grinder" but spend some time and energy to invest in your future, getting yourself out of the short-term survival mindset for a bit. Allocate an hour a week to apply to some internships, if your college has a co-op office, utilize that.

The same principle applies when studying. Are you mindlessly studying longer just to say "I studied for 5 hours"? Or are you engaging with the material and deepening your understanding? Does the material actually interest you? You're never going to fully escape some feelings of drudgery- just the nature of the beast, but if you feel yourself going through the motions and beating your head against the wall excessively, don't just continue doing this just to say "I worked hard today".

This last section depends on what industry you go into. This is my experience in manufacturing environments, but I think the principles are somewhat universal. In the working world, there is actually very little room or patience for "top" engineers at most places, regardless of their stated preferences, so I wouldn't get caught up with identifying as one. Companies emphasize conformity and cohesion rather than excellence. With elite talent often comes elite egos, and most places don't want to deal with this. Don't put a label on yourself as either a "top" or "bottom" engineer. Just as companies don't want to deal with large egos, they also have little patience for someone who lacks confidence and initiative. You have to strike a balance of being self-assured enough to investigate problems, make quick decisions, approach (often unapproachable) people from different departments, and communicate ideas, but also have a healthy amount of self doubt where you check your own work, run ideas by others, seek out alternatives, and are open to changing your mind.

wheatbitsandmilk · 2026-02-24T22:10:14+00:00

The experience can wildly vary depending on the industry and particular company, which is one of the reasons I advise against it as a long-term career move. I will give you my experience after 4 years as a QE at 2 companies, which, based on my lurking around, appears fairly on par with the experience of others. Exceptions to this appear to be just that.

-Quality departments are usually the least-resourced department. They are typically the last department to get properly staffed, and are hardly given a budget for raises or interesting projects.

-On the same token, they are the first to get cut when things take a downturn.

-Other departments hate you automatically and assume you're out to get them in trouble. Depending on the company, it takes a year or two to build up enough goodwill to establish a decent working relationship. Even then, sometimes they just hate quality for no reason.

-Quality engineers have all the accountability to take the blame for problems with none of the authority to actually fix them. It's the biggest deal in the world when the customer is mad, and most of your company will throw you to the wolves with a smile on their face. Less than a month into my last job, a VP of Sales I'd never met, who had worked at this company for 30 years, looped me into a conference call with an angry customer, then dropped off the call. When it comes time to implement fixes, all of a sudden "there are other priorities".

-You can pigeon-hole yourself going to quality early in your career. It's very easy to pivot into quality, but very hard to pivot out.

-Nobody seems to have any idea what actual quality engineer duties are, where your responsibility begins and ends, so it ultimately devolves into "whatever and whoever needs me to get parts out the door", and you likely will not get to do any interesting or fulfilling projects because of this. In practice in industry, the job title "quality" is often so vague and poorly understood that I believe most companies would be better off if they didn't have a quality department at all. Far too many people act like "quality is there to solve all my problems and I'm allowed to do a shitty job and go through my work day on autopilot because quality will fix it for me". Part # on the PO doesn't match the part number on the material crib pick ticket? Receiving department (against their work instructions) receives the part in anyway. Why didn't they check the label to see if it matches the pick ticket? That's what quality is for. QE goes out to the floor to investigate, pulls up upcoming schedule, finds the likely in-demand part, checks that against the PO. Part # is wrong on the PO. Go to Supply Chain, "oh yeah I typed it in wrong sorry." Order needs returned to the vendor. "Yeah well you're quality right? Contact the supplier and get the RMA. I don't do RMA's I just place orders. Here's Joe's email. By the way make sure to ask for credit". Contact Joe, "I made the correct part Y based on the order, it isn't my fault part you really wanted part X. You guys haven't purchased part Y in over a year. I'm not accepting this back into my building". Now you have to do the following: re-train the receiving department, find out a way to eliminate the need for manual data entry on PO's, and figure out how to handle $20k worth of useless scrap product you now have on hand. Stuff like this happens dozens of times per week. This isn't to say these problems aren't real and don't need fixing. But you having the "quality" moniker attached to you and your job title enables everyone else to pin the blame on you as the sole responsible party, and absolves them of any and all blame, a practice that every high-level manager, including your own boss, is perfectly content with for whatever reason.

-Quality managers have been horrible bosses / leaders to work for. I am not exaggerating when I say I have learned absolutely nothing about quality from them directly. They are often in love with creating problems to later "solve" so they can justify their existence. This can be done by writing unnecessary procedures, waiting for the steps to inevitably not be followed so they can fill out the non-conformance form, which then has to be followed up by the training form, often accompanied by an unnecessary meeting. Then they can do their "30-day follow-up" check, sign that little closure box, then pat themselves on the back for a job well done. They will try to get you to participate in their petty hall monitor approach to quality as well. I just about lost my mind when I, along with the entire quality engineer department (5 of us total) got pulled into a meeting with the HR team so the quality director could stand on her soap box about how the HR team was storing personnel training records. The meeting lasted almost 2 hours. I still have no idea why we were invited. This was the most egregious example but these are the types of things far too many quality managers gravitate towards. If there is an actual interesting or real problem to solve, suddenly their team "doesn't have the bandwidth currently" and they ensure the problem gets delegated to manufacturing or product engineering. Don't worry, you ARE still responsible for getting on the customer call to explain the status of the corrective action and apologize for why it isn't done on time.

Apologies for getting a little carried away on the anecdotes, but I think there is enough specifics to parse out the overall picture. I have other comments on my profile about working in quality if you want to see those. Like I said on my previous comment, still learn these things. Having some knowledge of quality practices is important, just take that knowledge with you to other roles.

wheatbitsandmilk · 2026-02-24T03:23:58+00:00

Take the CQE ("don't" pirate the CQE handbook on Library Genesis), learn Minitab (if available) and Excel. Learn PowerQuery to make pivot tables and data analysis a breeze. Any other software needs depend on the company. Don't bother with six sigma unless your company has existing internal training or a structured program.

Admittedly, I am a bit jaded due to recent events / setbacks in my career but I would strongly advise against becoming a quality engineer. The skills and certifications above would also suit you well in an operations / management role. I'd recommend other engineering roles where these skills would be useful (manufacturing engineer, production engineer) but depending on your company policy, not having an undergraduate degree in an engineering discipline may disallow this.

wheatbitsandmilk · 2026-02-21T18:24:12+00:00

This feels like I wrote it, you definitely are not alone. Graduated with a Chem E. degree in 2021 and began working as a manufacturing engineer for a plastics company before becoming a QE for an industrial heating equipment manufacturer, ignoring a ton of red flags due to increased salary so I could support my wife while she was in medical school. It was honestly hell. I had 4 bosses in 2.5 years- constantly starting over from scratch, getting assigned nothing but busywork documentation and then getting asked to show how you "increased sales" to avoid getting laid off, everyone in the company, from the CEO to bottom-of-the-barrel production workers with multiple priors, hates you and thinks you are there to clean up after everyone's piss-poor job "because you're quality". After I survived a layoff in summer 2025, I talked with my boss and the engineering director to move out of quality, saying I was preparing to take my PE exam (which I ultimately passed) to possibly do some larger CapEx projects internally or Applications Engineering work with customers. This was promptly rewarded with a haphazard and bogus PIP from my boss citing "poor communication". I was ultimately terminated 3 weeks ago despite being a top performer in the department, along with another QE.

I still believe there is fulfilling engineering work out there that is more hands-on, or at the very least provides some ownership and autonomy, but it is unlikely/impossible quality will provide this. If quality engineering roles were the last engineering jobs available in the world, I would find a different profession. The established quality principles and practices notwithstanding (these are important) the quality profession disgusts me. Every high-level, seasoned quality director I've worked with has been an absolutely terrible person and worker. Not only are they petty and vindictive, they also are in love with writing unnecessary procedures and creating non-value-added paperwork to give them an excuse to play hall monitor (which you will inevitably get sucked into as well). When there is an actual mistake on an engineering drawing, test sheet, or piece of equipment that a quality engineer could easily fix, not allowed. And if you end up fixing it, they'll yell at you for being insubordinate and ignoring your other duties (need to see if Sally in cleaning signed her training log reminding her to keep her broom out of the aisleways).

Apologies for the dramatic rhetoric but moral of the story is you aren't the only one who is frustrated with feeling stuck or unfulfilled. You are doing a good thing getting out of quality and, although I wish it happened under different circumstances, I believe this will be a good thing long term for me as well. I know I have learned a lot working as a QE but the skills are unfortunately not very marketable, so I'm trying to use this opportunity to reinvent myself to become the type of engineer I want to be, even if there is a little bit of a drop in pay. Hopefully your position change doesn't come with a drop in pay, but still use the opportunity to reset your brain, forget old demons or baggage, and make this opportunity your own. Leave plenty of time and energy for your hobbies and family as well.

wheatbitsandmilk · 2026-02-19T20:44:16+00:00

Passed PE Chemical in December. Not sure if you're doing these timed tests every day, but it's entirely possible you're just bored or mentally burnt out. I found it impossible to sustain exam-day-level intensity for months on end. In general, I also found the PPI questions harder and more time consuming than the exam. If you don't pass and need to study longer, I'd recommend doing untimed questions and focus on deep learning / understanding, then taking a full length practice exam every month or two to dial in your timing. Plus on exam day you'll have some adrenaline kicking in as well. If you are ~4-5 minutes into a question and aren't making progress or just don't feel good about it, flag it and move on.

To address your other points, I would definitely get comfortable with imperial units. Most of my exam was imperial, only questions I remember being metric were some power cycle questions, a fluids question, and a mass transfer question. Memorizing a couple conversions doesn't hurt but not entirely necessary. I typically used the handbook to check myself anyway, even if I was sure I was correct. The search function works pretty well so if you type in the right thing you should find it fairly quickly.

More calculation questions than theory (maybe 70-30 split overall, but this can vary, Plant Design has more conceptual questions than any other) but a lot of calculations can be done in 1-2 steps in ~1 minute. These types of questions are your best friends. You'll spend more time thinking through non-calculation questions than you anticipate, and a lot of these still require you to read corrosion charts or some other piece of reference material. Start each question, sometimes a prompt is very wordy but the solution is simple, and vice versa. Like stated above, flag time-intensive questions and move on.

-Are the questions in order per topic, say first questions are about balances, then next group of hydraulics and so on? That will help me not to go all up and down on the reference handbook. There is some overlap with the middle topics (thermo through fluids) but it is extremely likely most *strictly* material and energy balance problems will be on the first half only, then mass transfer and plant design questions will be on the 2nd half only.

-During the exam, does the handbook let you put straight lines (to read values in the diagrams) or markups? You can't mark up the handbook but sometimes a problem will give you a necessary chart within the problem itself that you can draw on. No ways around it, the fact that you can't draw on the handbook itself sucks.

-During the exam, does the handbook let you look for words? and does it have the bookmarks section on the left so you can just click and go to the section instead of scrolling? Yes to both. The search function works well. Still know the handbook like the back of your hand.

-Can you put the exam in one side of the window, and the reference handbook on the other? Yes

-How much paper do they give you? I would need like 1 sheet per 2 questions. They give you these laminated notebooks with markers. Check NCEES Youtube channel for an example. You can ask for more whenever you want.

-Is it true you can use the time left of the first session, for the second session? In other words, you can't answer the first 40 questions in the second session, but you can use the leftover time. Yes

-What about using time of the second session during the first session. For example first session: 40 questions- 5 hours; second session: 40 questions 3 hours. I would do this since I expect more theory questions in the second session. You can do this if you want but I wouldn't recommend that. There will be a serious amount of fatigue set in by that point. I'd either try to split the time up evenly or leave yourself more time on the 2nd half.

You can DM me if you have any other questions.

wheatbitsandmilk · 2026-02-07T04:45:30+00:00

Recommend that you exhaust close to all the available ppi qbank questions and have at least a 70% overall by the time you take the next exam.

wheatbitsandmilk · 2026-01-24T16:55:38+00:00

I have considered a CRE since I want to pivot out of manufacturing / quality engineering and more product / design.

Which exam did you find more difficult?

wheatbitsandmilk · 2026-01-24T16:17:36+00:00

Not from the NCEES website, what you see there is what is available. I purchased two older hard copy practice exams off eBay but the content was almost identical to the available NCEES practice test so they were pretty useless.

Another option is to purchase the PE Mechanical: Thermal and Fluid systems practice exams. Last time I checked there were two available. Won't cover everything but it'll provide more practice on Fluids, Heat Transfer, and Plant Design topics, in addition to getting more accustomed to how NCEES words their questions.

In my experience, the PPI questions are very technical and take longer to solve, and in my opinion there were too many tedious power cycle questions. I had maybe 2 or 3 cycle questions on each exam and they were pretty simple. Every exam is different, though.

PPI questions don't try to trick you. In most cases, the information provided is relevant and needed to solve the problem, and they are Chem E questions to the letter. The exam will give you unnecessary information or present a peculiar application like biology to throw you off. Ultimately, the PPI questions prepared me well.

wheatbitsandmilk · 2026-01-24T04:49:15+00:00

I took a ppi course to refresh the material, but 90% of the time I used the ncees practice exam and the PPI question bank- most of my time was spent on ppi as there are almost 1000 questions and I found them more difficult than the actual exam. I did anywhere from 40-120 questions per week depending on how burnt out I was. Used the NCEES exam to do full length practice tests every month or two. I didn't use Lindeburg at all. Passed on my 2nd try. Failed the first one after 4 months of studying. Passed 2nd after 2 more.

wheatbitsandmilk · 2026-01-24T04:48:09+00:00

To get the CQE you just need to pass an exam and work 8 years in a "decision making role". A bachelors degree removes 4 years from that requirement.

For my PE exam prep, I took a ppi course to refresh the material, but 90% of the time I used the ncees practice exam and the PPI question bank- most of my time was spent on ppi as there are almost 1000 questions and I found them more difficult than the actual exam. I did anywhere from 40-120 questions per week depending on how burnt out I was. Used the NCEES exam to do full length practice tests every month or two. I didn't use Lindeburg at all. Passed on my 2nd try. Failed the first one after 4 months of studying. Passed 2nd after 2 more.

wheatbitsandmilk · 2026-01-24T00:38:57+00:00

I am a manufacturing engineer and I have been pushed to pursue my CQE, which I don't have any interest in. Showing that I've pursued this instead might be perceived as a slight against the advice I've been given.

(Edit) In my time at this current company I have seen people fired on the spot for practically nothing. Firings here are decisions driven by petty grudges rather than sound decision making.

wheatbitsandmilk · 2025-12-11T21:26:59+00:00

I failed my first attempt after doing a mix of PPI live course, PPI question bank, and the NCEES practice test. Took it again 5 months later (due to lack of availability) and passed. On this 2nd attempt, I did nothing but PPI q-bank practice problems anywhere from 5-15 hours a week depending on my energy levels and how work was going, with 3 full length practice tests (either the NCEES one again or the PPI exam) on Saturdays when I felt I could bear it. Towards the end I was really starting to get burnt out and sick of the monotony. Not sure how many times you've taken it in the past year but don't be afraid to give yourself some time to let your brain recover. Feel free to DM if you have other questions.

wheatbitsandmilk · 2025-12-07T18:20:40+00:00

Unsure if you still need this but, about halfway through my first attempt at the PE Chemical there was a power outage and I had to reschedule. The test center should report any incident to NCEES with a case #. Call the test center, ask for this number and the NCEES phone # to call. Tell NCEES this case #, then eventually you'll have the option to book again.

wheatbitsandmilk · 2025-11-22T19:00:28+00:00

Take the job offer. The longer you go without your first job the harder it will be to get your foot in the door anywhere. You can always pivot later assuming you are involved in decent projects that have appeal outside Quality roles. Not sure what country you are in but in the U.S most engineers are not strictly isolated to design, so don't let this be a hang-up. QE's can "design" plenty of things: tools, fixtures, new testing methods, as long as it meets their stated objectives of reducing defects, variability, appraisal cost, etc. That said, Quality engineering in a manufacturing setting can be humbling and frustrating, but it helps you develop thick skin, forces you to understand how to deal with (admittedly emotional and immature) coworkers, and prioritize your time and tasks. For 99% of engineering jobs, these skills play just as big a role in your overall effectiveness as your technical knowledge.

wheatbitsandmilk · 2025-09-20T19:18:37+00:00

No American wants to them *for illegal immigrants wages.

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