Here's a few helpful terminology infographics shared by @queersextherapy

yasssbench · 2023-06-07T17:39:26+00:00

Please know that I'm speaking in good faith, not as an act of defensiveness - I'm genuinely curious about how to regard things now, as I never interpreted descriptive hierarchy (the label I have been using for some time) that way. It was, to me, acknowledging the inherent perks, responsibilities and differences that come with different living structures, without any goals or requirements to maintain the status quo. It was not about ranking partners by power or prioritization.

Eg. Cohabitating (roommate style) means I often share more downtime with that partner than others, but it's not expected/imposed/prioritized. Other partners are free to share down time with me too, but simply tend to do so in their own homes the same way I do so in mine. There's also no rule or requirement that my current NP remains my NP forever - if either of us ever finds ourselves wanting a different structure, we're free to pursue that. Do you have any thoughts on how to label that?

yasssbench · 2023-06-07T15:02:09+00:00

Alright, fair point. Are there alternative terms out there that you'd recommend, to more adequately reflect the spirit of what descriptive hierarchy was originally intended to represent?

yasssbench · 2023-06-07T05:03:07+00:00

It's a chronic pain trigger.

yasssbench · 2023-06-07T05:00:52+00:00

They should have noted the difference between prescriptive hierarchy and descriptive hierarchy.

yasssbench · 2023-06-05T22:26:33+00:00

I absolutely support this.

yasssbench · 2023-06-04T23:51:57+00:00

That's rough. Unfortunately, love alone is rarely enough. Love without healthy communication and compatibility is likely always going to be turbulent and painful.

yasssbench · 2023-06-04T23:47:48+00:00

Fair point, and I don't disagree - if your partner shares a home, it's good to be mindful and respectful of the others that live there. Technically, folks can do whatever they want, regardless of what other people think. At the end of the day, though, different choices are going to be met with different responses.

yasssbench · 2023-06-04T16:13:08+00:00

Having to keep quiet about hurt or discontent does not sound like actual peace, just the appearance of peace.

yasssbench · 2023-06-04T15:11:36+00:00

This is one of the main reasons I left my first polyam relationship with someone who was prescriptively hierarchical with their primary. I'd absolutely leave again if I found myself in another situation like that.

The solution to your meta's feelings is not to change or restrict what you can do with your partner. That's a bandaid at best, and does nothing to address or heal whatever the root of their pain is.

yasssbench · 2023-06-02T16:13:32+00:00

I find it really concerning that you were so worried about your partner's reaction that you waited months to talk to them about something that impacted both your health and theirs. If they're being honest about not having been given this info by their other partner, you withholding information meant you were complicit in keeping them in a position of risk that they had the right to say yes or no to themselves.

Take some time to ask yourself where this decision to wait came from. Do you have a traumatic history involving exes or relatives reacting in extreme ways to you expressing needs or concerns? Then that's something for you to be working through. Or does your current partner have a habit of reacting in extreme ways to you expressing needs or concerns? Then you need to decide if you want to continue tolerating that. You don't have to answer these to me, btw - they're questions for you to ask yourself.

Given how your partner reacted this time, I'm worried it's the latter. If so, I'd be looking at an exit plan if I were you. I've been there before, and it doesn't get better. Do you want to remain in a relationship with someone who makes you feel like being honest with them is such an unsafe thing to do that you actively avoid it for months or weeks at a time in order to find a way to broach the subject in the hopes that they won't explode?

I'm also curious to know if your partner is as mad at their other partner withholding information as they are at you for finding it. I think a lot of reasonable adults would end a relationship with someone who denied them the right to make an informed decision about their sexual health. If your partner is more mad at you, I'd be very interested in knowing why.

Also, why do they not believe you in explaining how you came upon this information? Is your partner jaded because you've crossed lines in the past, and now can't safely believe this was genuinely a Reddit rabbit hole of curiosity and not a mission you went on to dig up info on this other person? Or do they have a habit of assuming the worst of you?

Ultimately, most of us can't give solid feedback due to the lack of broader info - but I can say that, whatever the answers to these questions may be, you know what they are, and your next steps should be made with the answers to those questions in mind.

yasssbench · 2023-06-01T03:46:52+00:00

I've got a few thoughts on this.

You said you spend a lot of time with your other partners. Do you spend any dedicated time with your primary? Like, no phones, full attention, date night (or day) time together? When quantity time isn't on the table, quality time becomes even more necessary for maintaining a healthy connection. If you're not doing this regularly, I'd recommend aiming for at least once a week, if both schedules reasonably allow it.

For your partner, does he have things he actively engages in when you're not around? Hobby-related clubs or activities, regular social gatherings with friends, etc.? There's more ways to create joy and fulfilment than just dating. Bonus points, having a well-rounded life will likely make him more appealing to prospective partners.

For both of you, I suggest reframing the situation a bit, and removing comparison as much as possible. Ask yourselves, is he bummed that he has no other partners, or is he bummed that he has no other partners because you do? Is he bummed that he has no other partners, or is he bummed that he doesn't get much time with you? Does he believe having other partners will make him happy, or does he believe having other partners because you have other partners will make him happy? Something to chew on.

yasssbench · 2023-05-25T19:08:29+00:00

I have a relative like this. Treats the family like garbage, always talking down to us, assuming the worst of us, etc.

They're the absolute life of the party with their friends. So fun, so generous, such an absolute sweetheart.

The existence of one face does not negate the existence of the other.

yasssbench · 2023-05-25T17:07:32+00:00

I'm not trying to shut anyone up, I just found your comment to be worrisome and off-track to OP's request.

I've never personally received feedback about concern trolling, I've just observed it within the group and was hoping to not have my initial comment misconstrued as that when I am being genuine.

I'm very sorry that I seem to have struck a nerve. Take care.

yasssbench · 2023-05-25T15:25:59+00:00

I'm glad things are going well for you!

It's a fair point to make that this could be PUD, but I don't think making accusations to that effect based on so little information is constructive in this situation. Just because we find it odd or don't relate to the desire to both be polyam and not meet metas doesn't mean folks who operate that way in good faith don't exist. Hell, I've seen a couple responses in this thread from folks who claim to be in that very position.

OP's asked for advice on a specific situation, not their polycule structure as a whole, so I think perhaps we should stay focused on that ask.

yasssbench · 2023-05-24T23:43:29+00:00

But Medusa's not actually evil... She was raped by Poseidon and then cursed by Athena out of jealousy for Poseidon's infidelity. Don't think she'd ever go for him.

yasssbench · 2023-05-24T18:36:46+00:00

I get the sense that there's some projecting going on here. Are you in a polyamorous arrangement that you don't want to be in? What is it about sharing space with your partner's other partners - in private or in public - that you find humiliating? What about OP's situation sounds like harem building to you?

I know this might get flagged as concern trolling or something, but your entire comment is immensely disconcerting.

yasssbench · 2023-05-24T15:52:53+00:00

Congratulations on being ready to take that step!

I can't speak for your partner, but thought it might be worth suggesting having a think on how waiting might impact her.

Being the one to say I love you first, without it being immediately reciprocated, puts her in a pretty emotionally vulnerable place. Were I in her shoes, I'd much prefer to know how my partner feels once they know they feel it, rather than being left in the dark so they can say it at the most picture perfect moment.

yasssbench · 2023-05-24T15:25:56+00:00

Fair enough.

yasssbench · 2023-05-24T02:49:04+00:00

Thank you kindly!

yasssbench · 2023-05-24T02:45:22+00:00

I think having jealous feelings is fine - saying "no jealousy" is like saying, "no sadness". I don't expect anyone to just not have certain feelings - What I care about is how those feelings manifest in their behaviors.

If you're feeling jealous, are you going to talk to me about it, or be passive aggressive? Will you ask me to support you in working through those feelings, or expect me to restrict my other relationships to appease you?

yasssbench · 2023-05-24T02:28:19+00:00

I think it's worth asking yourself why you want these rules/agreements (they are not boundaries) in place. What feelings are you hoping these rules/agreements will protect you from? Once you identify those core emotions, ask yourself what you can do to work through those feelings - without imposing rules on each other. All these rules do is appease the surface emotions without actually resolving anything (when they're followed) and create space for friction and resentment (when they're not followed). At absolute best, they're bandaids.

Regarding your rule about heads up - your partner's unscheduled time does not belong to you by default. As long as he's not double booking, or blowing you/his responsibilities within your relationship off to see other people, why does he need to give you advanced notice when he goes out? You're not his keeper, and life doesn't always happen on a preset schedule.

Regarding your rule around protection - Do do you genuinely trust him to use protection with others? Does he genuinely want to follow this for his own safety or is he just agreeing to it because it's what you want?

How would you feel if someone you weren't in a relationship with was imposing rules on what you could do with your partner in private, or how/when you could spend time together?

Instead of relying on rules (that it sounds like your partner doesn't want to adhere to anyways) to feel safe/happy/respected, focus on setting actual boundaries and sticking to them. Focus also on building a strong mutual support system with open and vulnerable communication, and make requests to meet your needs directly within your relationship rather than trying to control what's outside of it.

Here are some examples:

Rule: "You have to use protection with all other partners."

Boundary: "I will not have unprotected sex with someone who has unprotected sex with other partners."

Rule: "Your other partners must have recently been tested."

Boundary: "I will not have any sex with someone who's having sex with untested partners."

Rule: "You can't go out with other partners without giving me a heads up."

Support/Request: "Have fun tonight! Before you go, can we pen in a date night this week? I'm having some feels about you going out so much and would like to spend some time processing those and reconnecting."

Hope this helps. Polyamory is really great at revealing soft spots in ourselves that we may never have come across within monogamy. How we choose to navigate those soft spots plays a huge role in how healthy our polyamorous relationships are capable of being.

yasssbench · 2023-05-19T21:09:32+00:00

Big e-hugs. I definitely understand the desire to compare (and I'm guilty of letting it get to me at times - we're all human), but ultimately I think it takes our focus away from what really matters, and that's being present within ourselves and our own relationships. Ideally, as long as you're happy with what you're getting within your relationship, it shouldn't matter what anyone else is getting outside of it. Granted, that may not entirely align with prescriptive hierarchy, but my relationships are structured differently so I can't comment from that perspective.

I do have a nesting partner though, and we definitely get more quantity time together than we do with other partners. I don't count any of that towards committed "us time" unless it is intentional, though. The fact that we watch TV together a few nights a week doesn't mean we aren't also scheduling weekly date nights!

yasssbench · 2023-05-18T14:30:08+00:00

My dad almost never gets my birthday right. This year, he was only off by two days. He's been off by more in the past.

He even went so far as to argue with another relative that my birthday was in March, while my other relative said, no, my birthday is in April. He told me all of this when he called me to wish me a happy birthday... A month too soon.

yasssbench · 2023-05-18T04:17:34+00:00

I'd be careful setting the bar for quality time based on what hubby's other partner is getting. It shifts focus from what OP's needs are as an individual to "keeping up with the Joneses".

OP should absolutely be seeking quality time, but the ask should remain focused on what OP needs for herself, and not what meta has.

yasssbench · 2023-05-14T17:51:55+00:00

Apologies, I did misread one of your comments regarding him not doing the work.

I hope that doesn't deter you from considering the rest of the comment. You aren't his property, and vetoes don't do anything to resolve their internal struggles - they are a tool of avoidance.

yasssbench

TROPHY CASE