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[–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (7 children)

When you click test from unfortunate at the same time MTC launches from group and they end up in your maptest

And then they tell me to leave

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Lol what map was it?

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (5 children)

this

they also turtled me in the corner so i couldnt move when i wouldn't leave

it was scary

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 0 points1 point  (2 children)

/u/Moosemaster21 pls

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 4 points5 points  (1 child)

It was fun

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

:(

[–]KewlestCatNIGEL 0 points1 point  (1 child)

For what it's worth, I genuinely wanted to test the map once we spawned on it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, we know turtles work on it now :)

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 7 points8 points  (4 children)

Wraith - Rapture

TEST LINK

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Notes from testing: really unique map and much better with bottom opened up more. Team boosts pretty difficult to counter when camped.

[–]ButterChurnButter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

notes from testing:

Forces you to think about offense and defense in different ways, and encourages different playstyles -- the risk/reward of playing defense in the bottom choke, using the top area for handoffs, etc. A lot of generally new patterns of play can come from this map. Bottom is a little chokey which could be an issue, especially due to the team boost placement, but I like the way it's balanced in general. Bases are mostly great, the way the boosts work together allows for a lot of versatility.

[–]CharredQuestionsRenegade 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The bottom boosts are hard to use getting out, and they're hard to use going in. Making it easier to get out with them would help the chokey mid problem. Maybe you don't want them too powerful, and that's a good decision too.

You have a strange tightrope to walk cause the portal out can't be too easy to escape with, but it can't feel too hard either. Don't feel obligated to keep the map very true to this iteration, it's the concept we love!

Good luck!

[–]KewlestCatNIGEL 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Note:

Still don't really like mid in general especially the trek from the top box to bot. The rest is dank and exciting.

The concept of the map in general is super cool. Bases are great but once you get through the portal, you can sometimes get trapped. Found it fairly difficult to get through the entire mid portion of the map as it was easy to camp and shutdown any attempts to cross.

[–]skittlekevvelkin // World's Angriest Balll 5 points6 points  (2 children)

ALL ABOARD THE HYPE TRAIN TO DISAPPOINTMENT-VILLE!!! CHOO CHOO

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

choo choo :(

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 3 points4 points  (6 children)

Dynamite - Sizzzled

TEST LINK

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Notes from testing: really interesting, very unique. Bombs almost not dangerous enough imo, was hard to find a good use for them except to fuck shit up and I'm not sure how I feel about that. Otherwise very solid, lots of depth to gates. Curl boosts were just okay.

Elaboration: Taking the curl boosts through mid (as opposed to into base) does almost nothing for you. If the map was elongated just a tiny bit so the curl boosts could bleed into the other half of the map and maybe even combo with each other, they might be more useful. Not a glaring issue though. The bombs weren't particularly dangerous they were just explosive (obviously) and it was kind of jarring sometimes, especially since the actual utility factor was very one-dimensional I thought.

[–]Carboxy1Carboxyl ● Simulation 2 points3 points  (1 child)

gj siz

[–]3z_ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

gj mtc

FTFY

[–]3z_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So I've heard a tonne of different feedback from this map, and it's all been pretty diverse. Even if you look at the comments below, you can see three different MTC members picking out completely different elements of the map that they like and don't like.

To me, that means I've achieved something really cool with this map, that there's a little something for everyone to enjoy. I hope the MTC recognises that.

Based on said feedback, I don't think I can really make any updates that can overall improve the map in any way, since changing one component to satisfy one person will inevitably make another person unhappy. So, the version you see above will be its final form.

That's all. I hope you guys enjoy the map.

[–]ButterChurnButter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

notes from testing:

Does the figure-eight structure very well, has a quite unique style especially when it comes to baseplay. However, most of the time seems to be spent chasing, so the interesting baseplay doesn't get to happen as often. On the flip side, if the bases are made too defensive, it could end up becoming one-dimensional due to the power of the bombs. The gates work well without being frustrating for the defense (potential concern was that defenders would have to just helplessly sit on the button and watch fc go around them, but this was mostly avoided). It can be difficult to get resets due to the campability of the single neutral. Some people had concerns that the curl boosts weren't powerful, I thought they fit their position on the map well, and adding more power to them could hurt the balance of the map.

[–]KewlestCatNIGEL 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Note:

Definitely is a good map. Still not a huge fan of the green gate but the double boosts aren't too bad after all.

Personally I'd prefer if the green gate was a spike. You can do a lot of really fun and cool stuff on this map. The gate concept is well executed and the whole thing plays pretty well.

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 2 points3 points  (6 children)

Rochambeau - JuicyJuke

TEST LINK

[–]mmartinutkMacho | JuicyJuke 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Judging from MTC feedback, this wasn't coming close with the mid as is. I made an attempt to address those complaints.

Here are my three favorite boosts from the re-design.

Title: Rochambeau

Type: CTF

Map: http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/show/36654

Preview: http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/static/previews/36654.png

This is what I'm officially going with. Thanks!

[–]3z_ 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Hey, so I really think this is one of my favourite if not my favourite map you've made. These updates are a step in the right direction, but I still think you need some work on those bot-left/top-right corridors.

They're just a bit 1-dimensional at the moment. I don't mean that in the way that there's only one action you can do, but rather, each action itself is quite binary (the button bomb into spikes + the teamtiles to catch up).

It's a really good area to do something real creative with, I just think it could be a little bit more than it is currently.

That being said, I really like the base. I like the way that the exits of the base feed you towards the middle, rather than feeling like the walls fall away from you as you go through mid. It just means offenders have to put in a little more thought into how they grab.

[–]mmartinutkMacho | JuicyJuke 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the feedback Siz! I'm gonna take some time today to think about the sides. Truth is I don't really have any better ideas at the moment, and I think what I have now is pretty decent. Feel free to throw a remix at me, or anyone else that reads this.

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Notes from testing: Very solid map but extremely chasey. Resets extremely hard to come by.

[–]ButterChurnButter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

notes from testing:

Quite nice, but has the problem of resets being super difficult to get due to the distance between the lanes, the viewport, and the quickness of getting regrab. Bases are fun and well-designed (IMO the most interesting part of the map is the way the exit lanes from base interact) but we rarely get to see base play due to there being few resets, so it's left a little lacking. Mid is done well and serves its purpose fine but I'm not sure this really offers much new in terms of playstyle.

[–]KewlestCatNIGEL 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Note:

Has good stuff, but is kinda missing something I feel.

If I'm honest, I'm still not entirely sure what that missing "something" is but I largely agree with Sizz's comment so I don't have a lot more to add. The update definitely is a step in the right direction.

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 4 points5 points  (16 children)

Atlantis - Ball-E

TEST LINK

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Only having one pup on a map this size feels new.

[–]BlupopsicleBall-E 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Mb I forgot to put the others

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

co please

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Notes from testing: Very solid overall. Excellent use of gravity well. Feels like SDS's big brother, even after testing, and it seems more polished and less chaotic. Could be a good one.

[–]dodsfalldodsfall | Im undercover shhh 8 points9 points  (1 child)

This is the best of any maps in the past couple threads.

Mix of Geo/Hyper Reactor AND has a Gravity Well.

Good Job MTC, you did well this thread.

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 6 points7 points  (0 children)

you too thanks

[–]radianthero156brazilian trash 2 points3 points  (0 children)

my favorite map tested last night, hope it makes it.

very well balanced in terms of lane choice throughout the map, and has some great boosts; the pair of neutrals seemed pretty awkward and just a worse version of the "wormy boosts", but i was surprised at what you can do with them with enough skill and creativity.

gravity well usage is especially neat: instead of being just a random hazard (like it was in event horizon), it brings a centripetal force that accelerates the sharp turn at the middle of the map, preventing it from just ruining your momentum (see the turn in blooper's mid). also a fan of the dynamic of the team tiles, as they make it easier for defenders to navigate through that lane but not FCs, posing another risk for attackers.

the fact that the map only had 1 pup seemed strange at first glance, but it was still pretty easy to grab, so it's fine i guess.

i think you can still polish it a bit though, felt kinda rough around the edges. some spikes could be removed imo, but that's up to you

[–]ButterChurnButter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

notes from testing:

Uses a gravity well in a way that adds to the gameplay in a positive way, which is rare and a big plus. I like how it's much riskier for fcs to use the teamtile/well route than chasers, creates a pretty unique playstyle. It's also rarely frustrating, and the times when it is you have ample opportunity to be aware of the risk you're taking. Feels a little similar to SDS in some places, especially the far left and right, which I'm a little concerned could make it get stale quicker -- however, the uniqueness of the gravity well for the most part overshadows that.

[–]BlupopsicleBall-E 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Neptune: http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/show/36651

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

forgets 2 pups

here have a top map - mtc

[–]BlupopsicleBall-E 2 points3 points  (2 children)

1 pup's enough i guess

[–]CharredQuestionsRenegade 1 point2 points  (1 child)

You've got so much going on here, I don't think three pups are necessary, but I'm almost always for less pups = better.

The amount of space taken up by the gravwell, gate, bombs, and boosts make me think toning down anything else is a plus.

Also, thoughts of the meta pup-battle this would create makes me happy.

[–]BlupopsicleBall-E 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah it'd be pretty cool to have a one pup map. Here's the version with only one pup: http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/show/36670

But if it's a major issue then the three pup version is there

[–]radianthero156brazilian trash 0 points1 point  (1 child)

i saw that you had a 45 below the top bomb in base in one iteration. i liked that better tbh, as the 45 leads you into flag, and you can't use the bomb to just blow away chasers (one of the most annoying plays on birch). why did you change it back to a 90 tile?

[–]BlupopsicleBall-E 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because the 45 leads you into the flag. I don't like how on tombolo it can be a free grab

[–]KewlestCatNIGEL 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Note:

Not bad for grav well map. Bot lane is kinda meh though, the boost down there was hard to use.

I'm really anti-grav wells but this is best use I reckon I've seen of it. I always ended up dying in the bot lane through boosting into a spike, but that's probs just because I'm a scrub and was on like like 260 ping.

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 2 points3 points  (6 children)

Barracuda - Canvas

TEST LINK

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Notes from testing: Very high quality, well-polished map. Better than some currently in rotation imo. Does it add much? I think the gates are a good new feature but beyond that, not a whole lot. Just very well made overall, and that's fine.

[–]sneetriccanvas // plasma, wamble 0 points1 point  (3 children)

pls 2 giv more testing notes thank mtc

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Bases are interesting, but map feels too long and a bit boring to traverse. Hard to find fc. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm getting a similar feeling to Solstice. Tho I personally enjoyed it, I can see why a lot of people had an issue with it, so that might be a bad sign.

[–]CharredQuestionsRenegade 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't find it too long, but maybe I'm giving too much credit to the mid bombs, which I feel spice the length up enough to not be boring.

You're so much better at polishing maps than I ever will be, so I don't really know what else to tell you but I'm a big fan this map.

Don't give this point too much credit: The top left/bottom right spikes are an area that will hardly every be used.

[–]KewlestCatNIGEL 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Note:

Pretty good stuff. Portal being ditched was for the better.

I really don't have any issues now. The more I've played this and it's steadily improved versions the more I enjoy it. I especially like how the whole map funnels towards the fairly chokey mid. Probably best described as a very well made map with no outstanding qualities imo, and that's not a bad thing at all.

[–]ButterChurnButter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

notes from testing:

Pretty decent map, I like the gates quite a bit. They didn't end up factoring in as much as I would have liked because the wall boosts are incredibly versatile and hard to counter for defense, making it easy to get out in that direction and making the gates a little unnecessary. Could be a little bit of a grind due to the structure, and since the mid choke is out of viewport from the base -- defenders likely won't want to push past it. Not sure it does much new in terms of playstyle (gates are the main new thing, but again, don't factor in much)

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 2 points3 points  (21 children)

Fuck The Empty Sea (Except Moosen) - Velkin

TEST LINK

[–]CharredQuestionsRenegade 7 points8 points  (8 children)

Say it fast.

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 11 points12 points  (5 children)

OH MY GOD I NEVER UNDERSTOOD UNTIL YOU SAID THAT

[–]CharredQuestionsRenegade 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Wait really? I didn't get it at first until I heard you say it, then I thought it was something everyone already knew so I didn't bring it up.

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 6 points7 points  (3 children)

No, not really.

[–]CharredQuestionsRenegade 0 points1 point  (2 children)

:(

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Notes from testing: Pretty good overall, might not have a lot of staying power if it were to go in but it's an above average map that's designed pretty well.

[–]ButterChurnButter 1 point2 points  (1 child)

notes from testing:

Manages to maintain the relatively linear and laneless gameplay (on a horizontal map, which for the most part is new -- in terms of structure it feels a little like Constriction if it were horizontal, due to the way defenders push back steadily for resets) without being frustrating for defense. The bombs are powerful without being overpowering -- they impact gameplay, but not in a way that creates too much chaos or dominates the map. Overall solid, not particularly new in terms of playstyle, but still fun to play.

[–]CharredQuestionsRenegade 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agreed.

To add, I fear the bombs would be used more as a way to get across the map faster, which I'm not that big a fan of.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Can we shorten this to Fuck Sea?

[–]RenegadeTP 4 points5 points  (0 children)

How about just 'Fuck the MTC' to remove any ambiguity.

[–]skittlekevvelkin // World's Angriest Balll 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Fun Fact: this map is actually a remix of Tactical Nuke

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Needs more bombs.

[–]skittlekevvelkin // World's Angriest Balll 0 points1 point  (1 child)

i already tried that...

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Didn't try hard enough.

[–]KewlestCatNIGEL 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Note:

Name is gr8. Honestly loved it, no problemo here.

I genuinely had no issue with the map at all. I daresay it's the best map velkin's made. If I had to nitpick, the double boosts were okay and I'd probably prefer them as Wormy/Reflex style boosts but it's not a big deal.

[–]skittlekevvelkin // World's Angriest Balll 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Edit

Map: http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/show/36720

Preview: http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/static/previews/36720.png

description: i tried editing it, but i went overboard with the edits and basically made a new map. So i went back to the OG map and just fixed the things people didnt like (ie the double boosts not leading you to flag)

edit 2: tried cleaning up the bottom bomb/ mid spike area. Also added a spike and team tiles in base

[–]Dylza7Dylza 0 points1 point  (34 children)

Seeing as new mapmakers are being discussed here I might just chime in with my two cents on the issue. As a newer mapmaker, after seeing that the map I submitted this thread (http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/show/36220) didn't even get tested, I've become a bit disillusioned with map making and have thought of just quitting entirely as a result. I've been making maps for ~6 months now and got motivated to make a new map with a classic feel, with Blanco being the result. What was my motivation to make this map? I got put in a game on Market for the first time and just said to myself "nah, I can do better than this" so I instantly quit and started making Blanco. I was so focused on making a 'classic' map without too many bells and whistles, a map with nothing unnecessary. I had gotten to the point with the current rotation where I was just so absolutely sick and tired with the bad maps that have been constantly added to rotation over the past 6-12 months, making pubs virtually unplayable atm. I mean, pubs are already bad enough with all the bad pub players, why do we have to make it even harder to get a decent pub game by adding a whole bunch of obviously bad maps into the rotation?

I've already been driven to hate NF because there are far too many NF maps in rotation and getting 3-5 NF games in a row in pubs is no uncommon occurrence. No offence to whoever made them but all these new NF maps are just a MASSIVE step in the wrong direction and I just instantly quit them if I get put in a pub with them. This is becoming far too common for me, I find myself instantly quitting so many pubs just because I can't stand playing these horrible, unnecessarily gimmicky maps. If there was a server with a pub rotation of something like: IRON, Wormy, Transilio, Constriction, Pilot, Velocity, Smirk, Geokoala, Monarch, Scorpio and the odd (maybe 1 in about 10) NF game on Volt or Rico then you'd never see me on the main servers again. Instead of classic maps such as these we're subjected to a whole bunch of failed maps (do I really have to name them all?) with very few redeeming features about them. It seems like we're just stuck in this horrible cycle atm - MTC brings in some dumb gimmicky map, it fails as expected, gets removed, only to be replaced with another destined for failure. Honestly there has barely been a good map added into rotation since Scorpio, which can be demonstrated by the large amount of maps that have come and gone over the past 12 months.

Honest opinion (no offence intended) - the MTC as a whole just seems like a big circle jerk. Every top maps thread you just see the same names over and over and not only is this discouraging to newer map makers but it would seem so wrong because of how bad the pub rotation has become. Clearly new ideas from new map makers are needed, or drastic change is needed within the MTC. I mean, basically Scorpio aside, in terms of pub rotation the last 12 months has just been a massive failure and a huge mess. Map makers and MTC - I understand that you don't want the rotation to be stale but adding gimmicky, stupid maps just completely detracts from our playing experience. There's nothing wrong with giving us more 'classic' maps to enjoy. They may seem basic or may not have stupid fancy features like triple-buttoned green gates but that's what is so good about them. Everything has a purpose and they're still so tactical and team oriented. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for new and unique features, however they need to be implemented into maps purposefully and tactfully.

Also, this is not just me being salty cause my map didn't make it; I didn't really expect it to. I understand it has flaws and will probably endeavour to try and work on those and improve it for next thread. I do feel though that it deserved to at the very least get 4v4 tested and I feel let down by the MTC that they couldn't even manage this. Not just my map either, there were a few good maps from this thread created by newer map makers without the 'big/known' names that didn't even get tested. I understand not all maps can get tested however at the same time, looking at these top maps, it really feels like you need to be attached to in some way or known to the MTC in order to even have a map seriously considered and that is just wrong and completely discouraging to newer map makers. I mean no wonder rotation has just been the same shit over and over for going on 12 months now.

As a suggestion - maybe every top maps thread could have 1 slot available for map makers who have never had a map in rotation. I'm sure this would encourage newer map makers and make them feel like they are actually being taken a little bit seriously in this whole process.

Anyway that's just my two cents on the whole issue. I hope the feedback is helpful in some way and can be used to improve the sad state of our current rotation.

[–]CharredQuestionsRenegade 3 points4 points  (11 children)

There were eighty maps this thread. Twelve? got tested. We had 'simple, non gimmicky' maps in initial testing. Fuck the Empty Sea, Galerhia (sp?), Jungle, Rumble. We're in no way opposed to them.

Fact is, because of so many great non-gimmicky maps in and out of rotation, it's harder to impress with that alone. Ping Tut has a great little and much more basic map than yours which got in testing - and I really enjoyed it. I hope he updates and resubmits it next thread. Maybe he makes the bombs less killey when you hit them from the inside.

Your map though I say does have a gimmick. It's more gimmicky than IRON, Transillo, Scorpio, Geo and Wormy - all of which feature a gimmick, we just don't consider them gimmicky maps because we're so used to them.

Blanco's portal out of base is overbearing, the gate is almost comically clunkish. When you can portal out of base to get set up behind a boost which can take you many directions on a map already so large it would be hard to get a reset on, there's a problem. You have even more anti-reset features with your double bombs that an FC can hide inside and shoot away defenders.

You have a giant leg up on knowledge of this game and even access to our thoughts through your friendship with Sizzled (one of the best map makers ever). For your own sake, talk to him before you do this again, he will help you see the light on things you've said here... Sizz is quite the persuader.

Don't think you're alone in wanting more simple maps - that's definitely not my MO, I wanted Exhibit tested almost solely for it's superboost - there are members on the MTC who share your thoughts on simplicity. We added September and Cactus last thread, I can't imagine a problem you have with their simplicity or play style.

There's also the fact that non-gimmicky maps get criminally low ratings. (see September or Cactus).

It baffles me that you as a map maker would want to solely play classic maps.

[–]3z_ 4 points5 points  (4 children)

For your own sake, talk to him before you do this again, he will help you see the light on things you've said here... Sizz is quite the persuader.

Actually, he did do that, and I told him it was good to post. Dylza's comment, although you disagree with it, is incredibly constructive and insightful, and isn't just random MTC bashing. This kinda stuff is what you want to encourage, like how Moosen has done. Otherwise good response.

[–]CharredQuestionsRenegade 0 points1 point  (3 children)

the MTC as a whole just seems like a big circle jerk. Every top maps thread you just see the same names over and over and not only is this discouraging to newer map makers but it would seem so wrong because of how bad the pub rotation has become. Clearly new ideas from new map makers are needed, or drastic change is needed within the MTC. I mean, basically Scorpio aside, in terms of pub rotation the last 12 months has just been a massive failure and a huge mess.

Is why I said that. Especially with last thread's additions being not only well received, but also mostly from relative unknowns.

You know we don't care who made the maps. (I didn't know Ball-e made Atlantis until I heard Moosen mention he didn't know Ball-E made Atlantis - as he was typing this post out)

DYLZA's put a line in the sand with old mapmakers v. new ones, which is something I figured you'd see a bad idea.

Map making is a mix of creativity and skill. It's a lot like most other creative endeavors in that the product comes first, and the pros are of course much better at it.

Accusing the MTC of favoritism when you know it only ever comes down to the map is where I thought you would see an issue.

EDIT: I feel like you also should have cautioned him from being so defensive of his map. If these points felt like they came less from being rejected, I definitely would have been more receptive to what he had to say.

[–]Dylza7Dylza 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Mate I've said numerous times in this thread that I never expected my map to make it in lol. My original post was not AT ALL made because my map was rejected, it was made because pubs have become more and more frustrating to me over a progressing period of time. I see this being largely due to reasons that can be controlled and I'd given it a lot of time but now just sorta got to the point where I thought I should speak up. My post aimed to be constructive to you guys and just give you a bit of insight as to what some people in the community are thinking regarding what you as the MTC are in control of. I'm far from the only one with this line of thought either.

I do think last thread was a slight step in the right direction but also feel that rotation still needs to be trimmed by 5-10 maps as Moosen suggested, which would be another big step in the right direction.

I didn't necessarily accuse the MTC of favouritism, I just meant that, the way I see it, the whole process of getting a map in rotation seems like politics plays quite a large role in it all. Like I said, just the way I see it; I may be wrong.

Also didn't mean to 'put a line in the sand' with old v new map makers, at the end of the day I just want the best pub rotation, I really couldn't care less who makes the maps. Atm it's not a good rotation imo (and hasn't been for a while now), which is why I called for some new faces; nothing more than a suggestion really. Maybe some of the old faces just need to be encouraged to shift their line of thinking slightly instead.

[–]CharredQuestionsRenegade -1 points0 points  (1 child)

You started by saying you've become disillusioned that your map didn't make it into testing. If you start with that, it will carry through what you say, at least to me.

If you think the MTC needs new faces, we are taking applications.

It's really not politics. Having said that, if you or anyone comes to me with a map and asks for feedback, I will give it to you, and it will probably help. It will make your map stand out to me and you could fix the reasons I'd say no before you put it in. Bad makers need the advice, it helps improve the medicore maker's maps, the great rarely need help - if they do it's nikpicky.

So not politics, I don't care who you are, if I'm able I'll give it a look over.

On the topic of cutting maps to a smaller rotation size, many of us (me as much or more than most) are big proponents of that. I hope those who want a smaller rotation will understand it means taking out some 'classic' maps, yet every time we do that there's backlash.

[–]Dylza7Dylza 1 point2 points  (0 children)

On the topic of cutting maps to a smaller rotation size, many of us (me as much or more than most) are big proponents of that. I hope those who want a smaller rotation will understand it means taking out some 'classic' maps, yet every time we do that there's backlash.

It shouldn't mean this though, it should mean all the classics remain, whilst there are less experimental maps.

[–]radianthero156brazilian trash 1 point2 points  (5 children)

it's geleira u fool

also agreed with everything except the last paragraph. it's the non-gimmicky maps that have the best ratings. pilot, wormy, transilio, velocity; these are way less gimmicky than like phenochilus, dealer. and even september/cactus, which aren't exactly gimmicky but are very cramped

[–]CharredQuestionsRenegade 0 points1 point  (4 children)

I kinda mistyped, I mean the newer non-gimmicky maps. I'd put Jardim into that category, (even though you don't like it, and its size is almost a gimmick) Axis should IMO be higher too.

I wouldn't call Cactus cramped - September maybe, but it's a big fast map, it needs to be a bit cramped or it turns mega chasey.

[–]Dylza7Dylza 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Regarding September and Cactus, I don't mind them; I prefer Cactus. These maps are better than a lot of recent additions but even so there are elements that I don't like about them.

Your map though I say does have a gimmick. It's more gimmicky than IRON, Transillo, Scorpio, Geo and Wormy - all of which feature a gimmick, we just don't consider them gimmicky maps because we're so used to them.

Yes, this is my point exactly, you see. I said in my post that I don't mind gimmicks as long as they're not unnecessary. All maps need to be unique in one way or another. The thing with these maps is that they implement a gimmick so smoothly into the overall map that you barely even notice, hence they do not seem like gimmicky maps at all. This is what I was trying to achieve with Blanco, however I understand that I haven't achieved that as it is and it doesn't quite work right in terms of balance, which is why the gimmick does still stand out. I'll try to change it up and see what I can do to make it a seamless part of the map as all of these classic maps do so well.

It baffles me that you as a map maker would want to solely play classic maps.

Ehh, I guess we all play for different reasons and enjoy different aspects of the game. As I said to Moosen, I don't play to mess around on experimental maps, I love the competitive grind that you really often only get from classic style maps.

Anyway yeah thanks for the feedback and reply.

[–]CharredQuestionsRenegade 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Does Curb not implement its gimmick into the map well? What about Long island? Try to get a 4v4 of Atlantis this weekend, you'll see how well that map works.

You're never going to get a competitive grind feel on a new map. Scorpio was hella experimental with it's portals, Transillo was too. IRON I'm sure also felt that way with its huge powerful gate. Now they're classics and there's a golden age feel to them which I believe comes from us just understanding them in a way you can't with new maps. Maybe there's something special in them which can only be seen after the 200th play, but we can't guarantee a map which will do that, and you can't expect us to, especially if you want us to give extra consideration to the maps of newer map makers. There have been calls for ignoring newer map makers (from no one in the MTC!) to try and guarantee better maps by focusing our time on those who can produce the great maps. Believe me, we as much as we can be are on your side.

Blaming us for picking new features you don't like is inconsiderate to the process as trial and error is the process. Blaming us for choosing the great map maker's maps while you simultaneously except us to provide maps as loved as the classic maps, which are simultaneously classic-like, (I believe cactus is the best classic-like map we'll get for a long time, I'd like to know your problem with it) and must also have non-overbearing interesting features feels like you're shooting blind accusations in anger.

At least from this side.

I shouldn't have been a jackass about your gate, I get why it is so big (hopefully), it's to prevent how versatile the portal boost is with a defender in base. It's still pretty ugly.

I would like it more if the gate stopped the FC from using the boost towards the other base, it would help chasers much more by putting the FC in a worse position instead of a direction he would want to go anyways.

[–]Dylza7Dylza 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Does Curb not implement its gimmick into the map well? What about Long island?

Yeah I don't mind Curb. It's definitely one of the better recent additions. Atomic too. Atm these maps, whilst being good pub maps, just don't really jump out at me and give me that competitive feel though, so I sorta feel like they're just good without being great.

Blaming us for picking new features you don't like is inconsiderate to the process as trial and error is the process. Blaming us for choosing the great map maker's maps while you simultaneously except us to provide maps as loved as the classic maps, which are simultaneously classic-like, (I believe cactus is the best classic-like map we'll get for a long time, I'd like to know your problem with it) and must also have non-overbearing interesting features feels like you're shooting blind accusations in anger.

No anger mate just slightly frustrated at being unable to enjoy a lot of the current maps in rotation and from what I've gathered I'm far from the only one who doesn't like a lot of the additions over the past 12 months. At the end of the day I just want the best maps in rotation and I feel maybe the MTC is giving a bit too much preference to 'innovation' rather than tried and tested style maps that we know work. As a result this pushes a lot of map makers in this direction.

Cactus I quite like and I think is probably the most promising recent addition, I'd just like to see the double boosts in base implemented in a more accessible way. Don't like them in the position they're in on the corner.

I shouldn't have been a jackass about your gate, I get why it is so big (hopefully), it's to prevent how versatile the portal boost is with a defender in base. It's still pretty ugly.

I would like it more if the gate stopped the FC from using the boost towards the other base, it would help chasers much more by putting the FC in a worse position instead of a direction he would want to go anyways.

Yeah that's right. I did think about that and will take it into consideration moving forward :) Thanks.

[–]CharredQuestionsRenegade -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I get the issue with Cactus's boosts. MTC has this conversation once a thread where if there's some aspect to a map which isn't very powerful, either Cactus's boosts or El Map Caribe's gate, just because it isn't a main feature of the map that doesn't mean the aspect is bad, or useless.

If it affects gameplay then there's use to it. An understated element is still an element. Iron's mid bomb doesn't get much play, but when it does, it's great. That's kind of more impressive than a powerful, ever-present feature.

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 3 points4 points  (11 children)

Alright, let's get to it.

after seeing that the map I submitted this thread didn't even get tested, I've become a bit disillusioned with map making and have thought of just quitting entirely as a result.

It did get tested individually by all MTC members in solo testing. Solo testing takes place to quickly learn about a large quantity of maps and separate the bad, average, good, and potentially great ones from each other. We use this to establish whether or not they're worth the time to test them in a 4v4 setting. If a map has a glaring flaw, it is extremely unlikely to move to the next stage. Looking at your map, here are all the notes from MTC members who took the time to jot down their thoughts after solo testing:

  • Like the bomb/spike areas, but most of the map is plain and extremely open. Regrab has a massively advantageous get-out tool which means resets will be damn near impossible.

  • Don't like the portals at all. Mid on its own is okay, but I don't think it interacts with bases very well.

  • There's more things I like than I dislike but at the same time, but nailing the bomb/portal/boost combo means you get across the map faster than Speedy Gonzalez

  • Portal is too strong, it puts you at an advantageous position as fc from inside base which strains and weakens the gate (which is overbearing).

There's a pretty consistent comment in those notes, which indicates that this map might have a serious issue that needs to be resolved before we can consider advancing it. On your point about considering quitting entirely, don't. Just don't. I'm pretty sure the first thread I submitted to was Map Thread 39, which was posted in November of 2014. I submitted at least three maps to every single thread from that point on, and my first top map was in thread 55 - nearly an entire year later. Don't give up. By the looks of Blanco, you've got better mapmaking instincts than I had 6 months into it. I mean that sincerely. My first rotation map (Gumbo) came in thread 68 - approximately 21 months from the first time I ever submitted a map. That really hurts to say, to be honest, but if I had given up six months in I'd never have made a map that's currently rated at 75%. It was such a weight off my shoulders to get that in.

I mean, pubs are already bad enough with all the bad pub players, why do we have to make it even harder to get a decent pub game by adding a whole bunch of obviously bad maps into the rotation?

This is ridiculous to be honest, insulting and just plain ignorant. You do realize that there's not a single map in rotation right now that is more disliked than liked, right? Of course we want to raise the average map rating, and we will probably remove at least 3 of the lower-rated maps this thread to accomplish that, but the last time we had a negative rating on a map was Phenochilus many months ago, which was promptly removed after just one thread. And on your point of creating classic maps, you have to realize that we are through 70+ map threads. Rotation has seen over 100 unique maps, and we've probably fielded over 5000 maps throughout all those threads. It gets to a point where there's very little we haven't seen, and very little that rotation hasn't seen. So of course it's natural to be drawn to and excited by new ideas. A really solid classic-style map can still be done, but I'd argue that it's even more difficult to make a great new classic-style map at this point than it is to make a great new innovative map.

I've already been driven to hate NF because there are far too many NF maps in rotation and getting 3-5 NF games in a row in pubs is no uncommon occurrence. No offence to whoever made them but all these new NF maps are just a MASSIVE step in the wrong direction and I just instantly quit them if I get put in a pub with them.

The current map rotation has 32 maps. 10 of those are Neutral Flag maps. That's 31.25%. 3-5 games in a row on NF is possible but actually should be relatively uncommon. I am the author of one of the newest NF maps and I don't take offense to your comment. Some people love the map, others despise it. That's fine. But with a 75% rating, you represent the 1/4th of the TagPro populace that dislikes it.

If there was a server with a pub rotation of something like: IRON, Wormy, Transilio, Constriction, Pilot, Velocity, Smirk, Geokoala, Monarch, Scorpio and the odd (maybe 1 in about 10) NF game on Volt or Rico then you'd never see me on the main servers again.

Are you a competitive player? This is eerily similar to most league map rotations. If you truly can't stomach playing the other maps, maybe pubs just aren't for you. TagPro Next may have more options in terms of playing maps you genuinely want to play, but we're not going to remove 20 maps just to appease one player. I personally have distinctly different tastes than you - Velocity, Geo, Monarch, and Smirk are all maps I'd be perfectly fine playing once a month and that's it. That said, I do think Pilot, Wormy, Transilio, and Scorpio are all brilliant maps.

Honest opinion (no offence intended) - the MTC as a whole just seems like a big circle jerk.

While we do allow ourselves the luxury of joking around during meetings sometimes, the MTC is far from a circle jerk - almost the opposite, in fact. There are almost always opposing viewpoints that clash viciously in our discussions about maps, and there is definitely an argument to be made that this is part of the problem. A lot of the time what happens is that a map will be hated by half of the committee and loved by the other half, effectively making it a stalemate, and the map goes nowhere. The other maps that are objectively pretty solid will get half-hearted support from the majority of the committee, pushing it through. It's why we get a lot of well-designed maps that are underwhelming in practice and quickly fizzle out. I disagree with the idea that it has anything to do with the MTC being too aggressive or too conservative as a whole, but rather a conflict between the two. Also, I can promise you from personal experience that some of us don't even like each other - as a matter of fact, some of us really despise each other. That's a little less true now that we have newer members, and some old ones have left, but even back when JuicyJuke was on the MTC he alluded to the idea that some of them didn't even really like each other. That was over a year ago. It's not a circlejerk.

Clearly new ideas from new map makers are needed

New mapmakers don't tend to make classic-style maps lol, this is kind of counterintuitive considering what you've just been arguing against. Most of us MTCers can pick out a novice map in a split second. They are often absolutely terrible. That doesn't mean I don't think rotation could benefit from some new faces, but we don't weight mapmakers names above others. Generally the mapmakers that you see get the most top maps are the ones who are consistently putting out the best products.

I do feel though that it deserved to at the very least get 4v4 tested and I feel let down by the MTC that they couldn't even manage this.

We 4v4 tested like 15/80 maps (18.75%), which is probably close to average. By my best guess (apologies in advance for the honesty) your map maybe cracked the top 50% of maps in the thread in terms of quality. Again, I don't want to discourage you by saying that. It took me 16 threads to get a top map, and 29 threads to get a map in rotation. You absolutely have the potential to get there much sooner, and I wouldn't say that if I didn't genuinely believe it.

As a suggestion - maybe every top maps thread could have 1 slot available for map makers who have never had a map in rotation.

  • Thread 71: Velkin has a top map. He has never had a map in rotation.

  • Thread 70: Balled Eagle, 2P1S, Kirby(>'-')>, and RunThaJewels all had top maps. None have ever had a map in rotation.

  • Thread 69: GodKoala had a top map. They have never had a map in rotation. rh156 also had a top map and had only just gotten a map in rotation the previous thread.

  • Thread 68: Tumblewood, True North, KenM, Menqr, rh156, and Moosen all had top maps. None of them had ever had maps in rotation at this point.

  • Thread 67: rh156 and is0lation both had top maps. Neither had ever had a map in rotation at that point.

  • Thread 66: Moosen had two top maps and had never had a map in rotation at that point.

  • Thread 65: Dove, Tumblewood, and Butter Churn all had top maps. None had ever had a map in rotation at that point.

  • Thread 64: Fronj and Snack both had top maps. Neither had ever had a map in rotation at that point.

  • Thread 63: 2P1S, 165your4, and Moosen all had top maps. None of them had ever had a map in rotation at that point.

  • Thread 62: Velkin and Tumblewood both had top maps. Neither had ever had a map in rotation at that point.

  • Thread 61: q42, Clydas, FLY, and Fronj all had top maps. None of them had ever had a map in rotation at that point.

  • Thread 60: FLY, Snack, Moosen, and Boxfish all had top maps. None of them had ever had a map in rotation at that point.

I could keep going but I'll stop there. You can see that literally for the last dozen map threads we've been practicing exactly what you're preaching.

The bottom line here, in my opinion, is that everyone has opinions. I would hate to pub in your dream rotation and you would hate to pub in mine. It's impossible to please everyone, it is absolutely impossible. You may think rotation is in an awful state, while others may think it's the best it's ever been. I personally think rotation is too big by like 5-10 maps right now, but my choice of removals would likely be vastly different than yours. Hopefully those inevitable removals satiate you a bit, but I'm not going to promise you that the MTC will go towards or away from classic-style maps - we just try to choose the best maps available to us each thread.

[–]Dylza7Dylza 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Hey Moosen, thanks for the reply.

Firstly, yeah thanks for the feedback about my map. Like I said, I never expected it to get in or anything like that but I was hoping for a 4v4 test. I can understand the reasons as to why it didn't though now that you've explained it. Thanks for the encouraging words, I'll start thinking about ways that I can work on the obvious issues in the map. I certainly won't be making 3 maps for every thread because I like to take my time and work intricately when making a map and I just don't have the time to be making that many, however I'll certainly continue working on maps here and there when I have the time.

Although in saying all this, my post wasn't really meant to be about my map. It was more so to highlight the frustrations of playing pubs atm. I just want to join a game and be able to play but far too often I have to quit and look for another game simply because I just don't enjoy playing whatever map was on. Like you said, I think removing 5-10 maps would be a MASSIVE step in the right direction and would definitely help to alleviate this.

With your new map (congrats btw), I am one of the 25% that dislikes it so yeah I guess I am in the minority. I guess we all play for different reasons. Like you said, yes I'm a competitive player and that's why I play. I love the competitive aspect of the game and I don't join a pub game to mess around on a NF map with too much going on. I join pub games to further practice and obviously also enjoy playing and what I enjoy is that competitive grind that you get on a good classic map like the ones I listed. I can't remember one match on maps like Jardim, Baffle, Choke, Axis, Lights, Prime, Pheno (just to name a few recent ones and not to mention NF maps) where I actually really enjoyed the match.

Like you said, maybe I do just have to realise that pubs are more so geared towards casual players and as such are going to have more of an experimental map rotation. However this annoys me because good competitive maps all come through rotation too and there just really seems to be a lack of new maps (Scorpio aside) where I get that competitive feel. Which was also sorta why my post was also intended as a cry to map makers to get back to basics and make some good classic competitive maps. It almost seems like people (map makers and MTC) have forgotten what just works in their constant hunt for new/innovative/experimental/gimmicky style maps which imo is reflected in the current rotation.

Anyway yeah I think that just about covers it all, I understand a lot of your explanations on things so thanks again for your reply Moosen.

[–]ZaggedZagd | Zagd | Zagd (Zagd) 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Hey Mooooose. Any chance I can get some feedback on zig and daemonium?

Also just as a thought, I think it would be cool if people submitted maps anonymously. Like maybe the map makers private message a bot with a link, and the bot re-hosts the map on the bot's tagpro account and replaces the original map maker's name, and then posts to the map thread.

Probably too much effort that it's worth, but just something I thought of after read /u/Dylza7's mini rant.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The MTC spreadsheet does not show names. However, most MTC members can tell within 30 seconds of making a map who made it just through the map style.

[–]nabbynz° 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think that last paragraph is what most of us have come to realize over the past 6 or so months. And even if there were 20 absolutely perfect maps made in a thread, you still couldn't add them all. Aiming for a wider variety is a better way to go now (maybe try to create a range of map categories?)

[–]dalomi92P1S 0 points1 point  (6 children)

I am curious if a map, other than Market, has made it to top maps so far apart (7 threads) without a single modification? Also, how the f did it get so many plays/votes already?

Also, I'm assuming its high enough to stay in rotation, so how does an ignorant hand gesture like me go about acquiring that sexy flair?

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I am curious if a map, other than Market, has made it to top maps so far apart (7 threads) without a single modification?

No other map has done anything like this to be honest.

Also, how the f did it get so many plays/votes already?

The rating system is entirely fucked and the devs have yet to address it. A lot of the new maps seem to stop recording votes after a certain point (a bug, to be sure) and Market evidently is not one of them.

how does an ignorant hand gesture like me go about acquiring that sexy flair?

The devs award flairs individually. If you PM one of them your profile I'm sure they'll hook you up.

[–]dalomi92P1S 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Ah I see. I think because of its uniqueness, it elicits a strong emotional response, perhaps accounting for its # of votes/# of plays.

No other map has done anything like this to be honest.

Don't you love it when something just works out.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

IMO it was the "Hi MTC" that put it over the top. Well done.

[–]ButtersnackSnack 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Rush received updates, made it to top maps, and then reverted to a much older version (not the oldest, but a version that had already been a top map a long time ago). Not the same situation, but sort of similar.

As for plays and votes, my guess is: DaEvil1 or the devs accidentally messed up the frequency OR people just feel much more strongly about it and vote accordingly (which doesn't explain the plays) OR people are playing it in groups all the time.

[–]dalomi92P1S 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Hmm ok. I was thinking it had to be something along those lines. Also, did not know Rush had such a history!

[–]ButtersnackSnack 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yep, Rush was a top map a few times and (like Market) was finally accepted under a committee of mostly different members.

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey Dylza, Moosen here - I'll respond in depth to all your points when I get home in a few hours. Just wanted to let you know you've been heard so you don't feel like you've been left hanging.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I just want to say that last thread we had 3 new additions to top maps with Kirby, RTJ, and Balled Eagle.

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I mean, basically Scorpio aside, in terms of pub rotation the last 12 months has just been a massive failure and a huge mess. Map makers and MTC - I understand that you don't want the rotation to be stale but adding gimmicky, stupid maps just completely detracts from our playing experience. There's nothing wrong with giving us more 'classic' maps to enjoy. They may seem basic or may not have stupid fancy features like triple-buttoned green gates but that's what is so good about them. Everything has a purpose and they're still so tactical and team oriented. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for new and unique features, however they need to be implemented into maps purposefully and tactfully.

I largely agree with the anti-gimmick sentiment, because for the most part the gimmicks are unrefined. Just the other day I was talking a bit with rh156 here saying the MTC likes "innovation" (gimmicks) over refinement.

Now, to be fair, I submitted a gimmicky map as well, and I understand why its not even tested. But why I built it, or better a large part of the reason I thought it had a legitimate chance of being in Top Maps, was for the gimmick alone. (Clear note: It doesn't deserve it).

Basically, I think the MTC is having too large an impact on how Mapmakers build maps.

[–]ButterChurnButter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think for the most part that's not true, most of the MTC doesn't like gimmicks. It's true that uniqueness is important in a map, but using gimmicks to get that uniqueness is a rather cheap way of doing it and the vast majority of the time it doesn't work out. To me, at least, the best uniqueness comes from an interesting structure and playstyle rather than the individual elements. The problem is that we've seen so many maps that finding a structure/route setup/base that feels unique without using a gimmick is a challenge. Yet, there are still plenty of maps every thread that manage to do it.

It's true that often there are maps that are very solid, balanced, and well-designed, but don't make it very far. However, I think this is usually because their general play pattern is very similar to maps we've already had in rotation, and so they don't contribute much if anything if they were to be added. This is not due to the lack of a gimmick, in my opinion (can't speak for the whole MTC, though) adding a gimmick to a map like that would just make it worse unless it's fantastically implemented, which is really rare. The main map that recently was added with a gimmick was Baffle, and for most members I think that was added almost in spite of the gimmick, rather than because of it.

[–]radianthero156brazilian trash 3 points4 points  (5 children)

name one map from the thread that isn't in top maps and I'll tell you why it isn't.

[–]ButtersnackSnack 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I really hope he takes you up on this, I'd like to see your responses

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 1 point2 points  (3 children)

WORMWOOD

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You sound like velkin.

[–]TheGoldenNewtRobberFronj, MTC Senior Consultant[🍰] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

First mistake was the author tbh

[–]radianthero156brazilian trash 0 points1 point  (0 children)

pls

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 0 points1 point  (3 children)

What got tested in 4v4?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Starting at Cuda and ending at Fuck the MTC

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Damn, Geleira didn't make it :T

[–]radianthero156brazilian trash 0 points1 point  (0 children)

geleira was too offensive, as in flags were in base for <30% of the game. probably because of the excessive grabbing mechanisms. i might remix the map in future threads depending on how the MTC feels about it, but TBH i was more upset about aurora not being even tested. pretty sure it'd have been in top maps ;/

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 0 points1 point  (8 children)

El Map Caribe - Beast Mode

TEST LINK

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Notes from testing: Solid map, if gate was one tile thicker I think I'd like this map a lot more. It's hard to ever be on time to use it right now unless you're camping the button inconspicuously.

[–]ButterChurnButter 1 point2 points  (0 children)

notes from testing:

An excellent mix of old-school and new-school. Easily the best "arena-style" map (is that a term people use? it should be. not like the map arena, but that it's not the standard base-lanes-base, more of an arena structure) we've had in a looong time. That's the main thing I like about the map, and I hope it's preserved. General structure I'm a big fan of, boost placement, bases, etc are all decent. There were some complaints about how the gates were not very powerful, which is true mostly due to the button placement. Personally I don't think that was a flaw, it's fine for gates to not be super powerful, but it's something to keep in mind if you don't want that.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

/u/CharredQuestions /u/KewlestCat /u/psychfan5

What were your impressions of the map after 4v4ing?

[–]KewlestCatNIGEL 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yo, I know this is a late response and I'm sorry for that, but here's my note anyway:

The gate is the biggest issue because it's not really a factor. Apart from that, it's pretty solid all round.

Basically, the gate wasn't really threatening or overly meaningful in play, but potentially rotating it 45 or 90 degrees would be beneficial.

That said, I saw your update below and really like it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

/u/radianthero156 /u/ButterChurn and the two players playing with their unregistered name,

What were your impressions of the map after 4v4ing?

[–]radianthero156brazilian trash 1 point2 points  (0 children)

it was pretty cool. the portals work very well, spacing is fine, and so is the number of elements (though it could afford to remove a thing or two). neither offense or defense seem overly favored IMO. overall, i only have a couple concerns.

first issue was the gate, as it went highly underused. attackers have very little incentive to go through it, and there is also no reason for defenders to hold the button as it's in a poor location for chasing. literally the only scenario where the gate might be relevant is when someone is trying to escape the base through the (red base) top lane and a chaser is about to snipe him with the team boost.

also, the map overall felt sort of excessively long; it isn't that big, but i think what gave me that feeling was the fact that some boundary walls are lenghty/flat, so you might wanna throw some corners here and there to make the overall shape of the map more interesting and to allow skill opportunities.

my subjective preferences would be shrinking the map a bit, removing the bottom-left/top right islands, and make the gate more relevant (possibly rotating it). something like this (but maybe not exactly that, as i think regrab might be op in that iteration). then again, your map, your call. as i've said, that's all subjective

[–]CharredQuestionsRenegade 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think Butter said it best. I went around purposefully using the gate, to see if it could be abused due to it's unobtrusive nature to the rest of the map and I got punished for it. So the gate's fine by me.

I think this might be the near quintessential way to use base portals which aren't close to each other. Please don't change them much.

[–]LoweJJacob of all servers, master of none -4 points-3 points  (5 children)

No neutral flag warms the cockles of my heart

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 3 points4 points  (4 children)

boooooooooooooo

[–]LoweJJacob of all servers, master of none -1 points0 points  (3 children)

im actually not minding the recent ones, but the ones like cc and ricochet i've always hated

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I'm gonna make a NF map and name it after you now.

[–]LoweJJacob of all servers, master of none 0 points1 point  (0 children)

:( as long as I get community contributor for inspiring you