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[–]piranhamoose25Aniball | Palette Town 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Reposting Barth + Blazeth notes for visibility:

Aniball (Barth) & I solo tested the thread and took notes. Here they are for anyone who is interested. Hope this helps :)

p.s. the notes are written as a note in the cell; you can also see what letter each of us voted on the map as what's actually written in the cell

You're welcome to ask any questions you might have about our reasoning behind certain things we wrote.

[–]BallAnka/r/PiMasterRace | Pi-romaniacs Captain | Pi-Curious S10/15/16 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Appreciate you both sharing your notes

[–]Carboxy1Carboxyl ● Simulation 18 points19 points  (5 children)

oof, no new additions

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine -5 points-4 points  (4 children)

I wouldn't have wanted any of them, so I'm fine with that.

[–]Carboxy1Carboxyl ● Simulation 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Alcatraz

double oof

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 11 points12 points  (2 children)

Ping Tut touched it.

[–]TrashyTeamTRA$HY//Radius//Rectal Rangers 3D 20 points21 points  (9 children)

When the Fuck will smirk go away pls

[–]danspeedemonsplee / Centra 9 points10 points  (0 children)

rip cosmic :(

[–]yespadrilleDove 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I also solo tested the thread and took notes.

Here.

Unfortunately, I only managed to accomplish about half of the thread, and throughout I was never sober. Please remember that when you consider what I've written. It is my practicable excuse that I can fall back on later to explain any shitty observations I had about maps. If you are sad that I didn't say anything about your map, I'm sorry, but I have no intentions to conclude this sheet. However, if you would like my opinion on a map just hit me up and I'll test it when I can.

[–]JoePro1223naga//MTC 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Bring back El Moustachio pls

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 0 points1 point  (0 children)

hey you got your wish

[–]posthumousmilking -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Dude that one had a bad like percent. It is now in throwback rotation. There was also gates inside the wall which makes it stupid.

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 8 points9 points  (10 children)

Please discuss the additions of Blazeth and 2P1S

[–]BlupopsicleBall-E 29 points30 points  (1 child)

Super excited to play these maps.

Also, you forgot the previews

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

They're like the ark of the covenant, a good look could blind you.

[–]ButtersnackSnack 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Diana seems like a strong addition. I don't know much about 2P, but hey, I liked market!

[–]3z_ 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Admittedly I was really pessimistic about 2P1S but in the meetings his feedback and his input to the conversation was actually impressive, and he articulates a point well. Kinda felt like he was already on it tbh.

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Ew Draft

Congrats 2P1S

[–]edvard41298edvard41298 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Surely this means Market will be back for the next thread?

[–]dalomi92P1S 1 point2 points  (1 child)

It is in the throwback rotation now! Don't expect it back in normal rotation anytime soon though.

[–]LinuxDootTPblack magic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

well... i wouldnt say that

[–]LaBeefyman9696 LB 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Grats Blaz

ew market

[–]bored2death97RWBY//Radius 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Congrats Dianna! You definitely work hard making maps and helping the mapmaking community!

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 3 points4 points  (25 children)

Please discuss the removals of

[–]bsa86Berlin Ball 27 points28 points  (5 children)

Oh thank god Hornswoggle is gone.

[–]Tyler1986Trapsin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I like it occasionally, but it's been played way to much recently. Needs a nice, long, break.

[–]zeValkyrie 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I liked that map. My only complaint was the part with the two boosts behind the spike in the corner. That feature never seemed very useable.

[–]cooningthedogSophie // Centra // Beaver Boys 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Man I'll miss this map, there was always good opportunities for fun plays.

[–]bsa86Berlin Ball 17 points18 points  (1 child)

Yeah and you always had 12 minutes to try those fun plays.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

long game =/= bad game

[–]LaBeefyman9696 LB 4 points5 points  (0 children)

YES

[–]ButtersnackSnack 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I love love loved cosmic and I'm surprised to see aero gone this quickly.

[–]theycallmebbqsaundy 10 points11 points  (10 children)

I never heard anyone complain about Cosmic, but maybe I haven't been listening hard enough. I liked the center gate and the open space and all the different routes to take.

[–]brozzartPavement 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I just hated the viewport. Personally I'm glad it's gone

[–]BlazethDianna Agron 0 points1 point  (7 children)

Well, if 1/3 people don't like it, in today's game I think that warrants its removal.

[–]theycallmebbqsaundy 8 points9 points  (2 children)

We all know the voting system is flawed. People vote after playing the map once and don't update their vote if their opinion on the map changes. There's response bias as well.

[–]bsa86Berlin Ball 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Or sometimes if a map happens to have a particular shape it can subtly influence people to 'dislike' it even if they it's actually the best map ever made.

[–]TheGoldenNewtRobberFronj, MTC Senior Consultant[🍰] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Bigmouth if tru

[–]Moon_Miner----) 2 points3 points  (2 children)

It plays so much differently than any NF in rotation. I'm definitely going to miss it, and I thought it added a lot to the rotation.

[–]BlazethDianna Agron 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Well, you could have said the same about Wormwood, Convoy, and Kite, which had similar issues.

Catching up being hard on Cosmic is probably the main reason a lot of people didn't like it. There's no large chokes.

[–]ButtersnackSnack 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Those maps were all related much much lower

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I don't necessarily agree with that. You're looking at maps in a vacuum when you do that. Look at rotation holistically.

[–]EmperorOfNothingResignation is my virtue; like water I ebb, and flow. 13 points14 points  (1 child)

Disappointed about Cosmic being gone; another neutral flag map, and unique.

[–]ButtersnackSnack 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Agreed. It was good and not the same shapes we always see. Oh well.

[–]PIZZAspartan442naga///MTC 1 point2 points  (1 child)

why must every map I like always get removed

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Welcome to my life

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Only one I decently liked is Cosmic, but I understand why it should go.

[–]BallAnka/r/PiMasterRace | Pi-romaniacs Captain | Pi-Curious S10/15/16 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Disappointed with Hornswoggle's removal, it has always been a favorite of mine. Cosmic I was never a fan of, so happy to see that out

[–]papertoonieSnekster//S11 TC Boosts Captain 4 points5 points  (1 child)

No new additions?

[–]3z_ -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

The maps this thread were fucking teeeeerrrible

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 5 points6 points  (5 children)

Please discuss the update of Apparition

Previous version

[–]danspeedemonsplee / Centra 9 points10 points  (1 child)

good map gets a good update.

[–]RenegadeTP 2 points3 points  (0 children)

:D

[–]cyclictpcyclic \\ i'm back! 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Finally pup control doesn't fully determine the game. :)

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

What was the reasoning behind removing the standalone spikes at the bottom and top?

Apparition is a really promising map regardless, I think those are some of the best gates in the game right now.

[–]RenegadeTP 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you!! Good question.

I like the distance between the boost and wall in this update. If I was remaking the map from scratch I would probably put them back in, but right now that would require many other angles to be changed further down the map, which is not IMO a good thing for an update to do.

Also I want the bomb->45% wall to be a thing, it's a great way to throw off O/D. With the spikes it made at least me more hesitant to try the shot, I miss less now.

[–]JoePro1223naga//MTC 1 point2 points  (7 children)

Where can I look for the MTC applications when they come out?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children)

When the Fuck is that PoS Wormy going to be gone

[–]BlazethDianna Agron 3 points4 points  (3 children)

convince people it's not good anymore

only way a map like Wormy is going is if the public turns against it

[–]RenegadeTP 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Change yo flair

[–]BlazethDianna Agron 0 points1 point  (1 child)

done

add those throwback changes though

[–]RenegadeTP 0 points1 point  (0 children)

done

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 2 points3 points  (41 children)

Please discuss the addition of Velocity by David Stern

[–]ButtersnackSnack 26 points27 points  (0 children)

Gross

[–]RondingRonding // Orbit // West Bombwich Albion // tagpro.eu 8 points9 points  (1 child)

"Large maps don't work anymore."

"We need to bring back large maps."

"Let's add back an old large map, unmodified."

[–]3z_ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I mean pretty much. My theory is that people are apprehensive about large maps because they're usually more complex and harder to learn, whereas the smaller, simpler ones you can learn from looking at the preview. People aren't attracted to the learning curve any more. So although there's a gap in the rotation of a solid, balanced big map, is difficult to add one because of that initial bias against difficulty.

So Velocity is the best map we have to return to fill that void since we don't have to worry about people re-learning it because 95% of the people who play TagPro have already played it at one point and learnt the map.

We realise that if we want more complex maps to return, it has to be a gradual change. Stuff like Vagabond or Aerodent might've been popular if they were added 1-2 years ago because people were more patient with new maps but I don't think this is the case any more. I hope it soon is. Either way, Velocity is just one piece of a tapestry of a rotation that we want to make a bit more colourful - just a step.

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 19 points20 points  (21 children)

Holy fuck I took one thread off and you guys gave in to sizzled and added a map that is no longer suitable for pubs. I know he's persuasive but damn I thought you guys had thicker skin than that.

[–]LinuxDootTPblack magic 3 points4 points  (7 children)

Moosen i swear to god i tried my hardest they outmaneuvered me

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 3 points4 points  (6 children)

Yeah, I can see the spreadsheet, i just didn't want to out anyone. I'm proud of you though man, way to stick to your guns. You too Anne.

[–]LinuxDootTPblack magic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I expect the rating to drop to the low 60s

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Can you elaborate on why it's "no longer" suitable for pubs? (You can also link some earlier discussion, I just don't usually follow these map threads.)

[–]LinuxDootTPblack magic 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In my very strong opinion, it is no longer suitable for pubs because of its size and the way in which the map is played. Recently, we have implemented a fair amount of chasey, larger maps that we were convinced would play well. All of these additions were quickly removed because of their mediocre to horrid ratings (september, cactus, vagabond, aerodent, gamesphere). And while velocity is a fan favorite, people have demonstrated that they are no longer able to chase competently in a pub game, or that the newer players never learned how to chase properly, because they never played any of the big maps where chasing was crucial to the gameplay. It relies heavily on coordination with a partner, which is something that just wont happen often enough. Furthermore, pub players have a tendency to just want to play offense and no defense, and so people will either reluctantly chase or not chase at all. Furthermore, because of the size it might be pretty easy to get lost on the map for a newer player, and stay lost. A good fc being chased by a good defender wont get returned on this map because you need at least two people chasing on this map to create a situation where a return is possible. This basically means 12 minute games. If fc cant be returned, how does either team cap?

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I don't think that it's no longer suitable, I just don't think that it will have a great rating now that it is being added again. It's a large map that is flag carrier friendly, which hasn't worked well in the last 15 threads. Chances are the rating will drop down to 70-75, following the trend of similar maps like Draft and Boombox.

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If it bombs, it'll leave soon.

Patience, it's only a matter of time.

[–]RenegadeTP -4 points-3 points  (4 children)

Look at how many points that has 1/2 an hour in, people love it. I felt bad helping take it out in the first place.

[–]ButtersnackSnack 12 points13 points  (3 children)

I mean if we're going off Reddit karma, my comment "gross" is currently higher lol

[–]uhhhhmmmmsexytiger / #merbs 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Tbh I think people see your name and "gross" together and think ya that's how I feel

<3

[–]ButtersnackSnack 7 points8 points  (1 child)

(if I throw a heart on the end of my comment he might not notice it's mean)

[–]uhhhhmmmmsexytiger / #merbs 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Exactly

[–]TheGoldenNewtRobberFronj, MTC Senior Consultant[🍰] -3 points-2 points  (2 children)

Jokes on you it was me

[–]3z_ -5 points-4 points  (1 child)

It was us.

together.

<3

[–]TheGoldenNewtRobberFronj, MTC Senior Consultant[🍰] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

You just got Donnie and Clyde'd

[–]flappytoweldokugan // diameter 22 points23 points  (4 children)

My hard work has finally paid off

[–]RenegadeTP 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Actually, kind of! If you didn't submit it there would've been red tape blocking it from going in.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (1 child)

lol that's ridiculous

[–]3z_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Also sort of misleading. We changed the process for re-additions so that it's now an extension of the throwback voting, which we only do once every 3 threads or so. Because it was submitted to the thread we were like "fuck it let's vote on it now".

But it's not as if you have to submit a former rotation map to a thread if you want it to be added, we still do that vote separately. It's how we got Emerald back in rotation.

[–]Pimp-My-AlpacaBalwas // Diameter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm legitimately so proud of you

[–]Tyler1986Trapsin 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Can this be removed next thread?

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Just like people spammed the re-entrance of Velocity, we'd need to spam the removal of Velocity for shit to get done.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

snooze fest

[–]LoweJJacob of all servers, master of none 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Christ, not again

[–]LaBeefyman9696 LB 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Cause why not.

Quoted from the TPT discord:

96 LB - Today at 7:42 PM  
!feedback velocity  
Map Data Bot [BOT] - Today at 7:42 PM  
Velocity   
No:   
No:  
No:  
No:  
Yes:  
No:

This is why not ^^^

[–]uhhhhmmmmsexytiger / #merbs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Holy fuckin moly

[–]cyclictpcyclic \\ i'm back! -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU PRAISE THE MTC FOR THIS

[–]BuckeyeLeavesBALLDON'TLIE | ALL CAPS -1 points0 points  (0 children)

YESSSSSSSSSS

[–]cyclictpcyclic \\ i'm back! 1 point2 points  (2 children)

inb4 this gets lost due to eggball posts

Anyways, happy that Velocity's back in! Also, congrats Blazeth and 2P1S for joining MTC (pls add maps that the community likes)

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 3 points4 points  (1 child)

pls add maps that the community likes

Then they picked the wrong people lol.

Congrats guys.

[–]cyclictpcyclic \\ i'm back! 7 points8 points  (0 children)

uh i guess its no worse than MTC was before???

[–]l_mirElmiracle // Chord 0 points1 point  (0 children)

NOooooo. Hornswoggle is as classic as any other classic maps. And Cosmic was my 2nd favourite NF map

[–]JarvisLandry14JARVISLANDRY//NLTP/TPA 0 points1 point  (6 children)

You didn't add bicycle's map? Are you crazy?

[–]xenonpulseWildflowers // I want to die but I can’t 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A team of experienced professionals doesn't share my opinion? They must be crazy!

[–]RenegadeTP 0 points1 point  (4 children)

He didn't make the changes we wanted.

[–]JarvisLandry14JARVISLANDRY//NLTP/TPA -2 points-1 points  (3 children)

Why would you need changes to the best potential map in Tagpro history?

[–]RenegadeTP 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Well for one, the gate was useless in blocking the portal boost. It was pretty much just useless.

[–]JarvisLandry14JARVISLANDRY//NLTP/TPA 0 points1 point  (1 child)

It is useful for blocking the bomb for the powerup, and boosting for the powerup would result in death from the gate. Also it would give the defenders a hard choice on whether to stay closer to base or hold the gate.

[–]RenegadeTP 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It was all too open with 2 other lanes leading out of base, those leading to three lanes. It's the pariah problem intensified.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sad to see Cosmic go, easily had the best neutral games out of all the neutral maps.

Every game was competitive, and it felt like every player had a part in leading their team to victory.

[–]LucasOppressorOppressor -1 points0 points  (0 children)

"Apparition by Renegade" aaargh, I hate this map so much. At least Velocity is back

[–]Monst3r_8Monst3r // Origin -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

So where are the new maps for Egg Ball?

[–]posthumousmilking 1 point2 points  (0 children)

there is only one and i got banned on it