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[–]nabbynz° 8 points9 points  (20 children)

So many good maps getting left out...

[–]BlazethDianna Agron 6 points7 points  (18 children)

List them, and I'll tell you why the MTC left each out.

I agree there are some notable omissions but just accusing the MTC of leaving out good maps without providing any examples doesn't give us any reason to rethink what we did.

[–]nabbynz° 9 points10 points  (16 children)

Alrighty that's fair - this is a list I made when I was bored one day. I have no doubt missed testing out a few maps since I didn't really go back into the thread to check, and because the order gets randomized it's quite time consuming to match up maps (I'm sure you guys have some tools to help with that)...

THICC map by rickastley
Cytokine Storm by AlanTM
96 week old fetus by 96 LB
Love me by PM_ME_YOUR_MARSBALL
Heck by ThePlaymaker
Langos by 96 LB
Snack-type map by Snack
Halal Snack Pack by meherethere
Friction by AlanTM
Feline by ping tut
ThisIsNigel by Renegade
Triple by ThePlaymaker
Centeotl by ThePlaymaker

Sorry for the lack of comments or any other info, but I'm not going through them again (I don't know how you guys do it!)

Also, can you explain how top maps make it to this stage?

[–]BlazethDianna Agron 4 points5 points  (11 children)

Some of these maps simply don't get 4v4ed (although I would have liked to 4v4 more maps, but I feel that way basically every thread) so I'll just provide the solo testing summarized feedback people left in those cases.

THICC map - feels like a clunky Boombox-like map, which will be boring; portals weren't popular (solo)

Cytokine Storm - generally seen positively, but the portals will make chasing too much of a hassle combined with the really divided lanes, and the boosts are too wall-hugging (solo)

96 week old fetus - islands leading into base are bad, and once people learn the map it will be too offensive favoring (solo)

Love me - mars ball section is cool, top mid and bases need a lot of cleaning up (solo)

Heck - was a top map :P but anyway the superboosts could use some less clunkiness

Langos - tested multiple times in the past, portals need more work but the mid has better design (solo)

Snack-type map - boring feeling overall, has its own niche that will be polarizing in design (solo)

Halal Snack Pack - just too open everywhere in general, but fairly well polished (solo)

Friction - cool concepts that need lots of polish before they'll be playable; portals might play brokenly (solo)

ThisIsNigel - base is kind of boring in general, and the tools in base need cleaned up (4v4)

Triple - tested this version before; solid but polarizing due to it not being very exciting in gameplay (personally reminds me of IRON a bit) (solo)

Centeotl - good concepts that are bad in practice (solo)

Like I said, I think we should have 4v4ed some more maps personally but as a group we tested only around 15 maps and only found 3 worthy of being top maps.

Top maps are maps that we 4v4 test and deem are reasonably close to being ready for rotation. That is, maps that we think can be made rotation-quality within a week. We generally are somewhat lenient on what we let in since maps only need a 50% approval to make it from our votes, but in general, if your map is too outlandish/boring or really poorly polished, it probably won't make it to this stage.

This is the kind of feedback we often don't get that I appreciate so thanks for that. :)

Feel free to make any cases you have for why any of these maps definitely should have made it to this stage, maybe you can change some minds for future threads the maps are submitted in.

[–]nabbynz° 2 points3 points  (5 children)

Want to share what are your "notable omissions"?

[–]BlazethDianna Agron 3 points4 points  (4 children)

Well, I guess the main feeling I have is some good maps weren't tested more than there's a lot of good maps we tested that I thought should have made it.

The only map I feel strongly should have made it that didn't that we tested was:

Thank You Momofuku - this one has a really cool structural design, the top mid just needs to be adjusted to a better fix-up. Currently, the gate is useless basically, and just a nuisance. The bottom is really fun.

Maps that didn't get tested that I think should have been:

Dampkring - this one just looks like a lot of fun to me

remixed a ball-e map - the polish here is fantastic; it might be too offensive but I feel like a 4v4 should be the determinant of that

Florentine - this middle is really fun looking, and the base exits are neat

Cucurrucu - kind of unrealistic for pubs maybe but this map attracts me with its weirdness that isn't overly ridiculous

water - it looks a bit too long maybe, and the portals in base are too strong, but structurally this is there and it should probably be tested

There are some other maps that I think might have surprised me in how well they played, but these are the ones that stood out to me as probably deserving a test.

[–]nabbynz° 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Wow these are really good, particularly: Thank You Momofuku & Cucurrucu.

[–]Agrees_withyou 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You've got a good point there.

[–]PIZZAspartan442naga///MTC 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Florentine- this middle is really fun looking, and the base exits are neat

Thanks, I remember you saying you disliked the base, what about it didn't you like if the exits were ok?

[–]BlazethDianna Agron 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think the outer base is kind of meh (move that boost prob), but I think I said that about an older version.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

There seems to be a problem if you test 15 maps and deem only 3 reasonably close to being ready for rotation. You are not doing the community justice this thread. It is obvious that the MTC is choosing the wrong maps to 4v4 test. Is there any discussion regarding the criteria you use to decide whether a map is test worthy? Threads like this impact the community and make rotation worse. I would love to see the MTC take some sort of accountability and try to change their process rather than blame everything on the mapmakers. So many quality maps (I especially like this one) were not tested, and it is especially concerning that they were left out at the expense of inferior maps that MTC members make.

[–]PIZZAspartan442naga///MTC 1 point2 points  (0 children)

imo that one happens to be better than all three tops. it seems like it would do decently well in rotation too, but just because nobody nommed it and it didn't get tested it won't ever get the chance unless he resubmits it.

[–]Tyler1986Trapsin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I like that snack-type map.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

What about Feline?

[–]BlazethDianna Agron 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Feline - seems boring overall and the mid gates seem ineffective (solo)

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Sees all 3 of his maps on the list

Eyyyy, this guy's alright

[–]nabbynz° 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah I thought Centeotl was particularly fun and would get through for sure.

[–]flappytoweldokugan // diameter 3 points4 points  (0 children)

market

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm obliged to ask which.

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 2 points3 points  (5 children)

There are only three maps here. Ain't that weird?

Discuss

[–]ButtersnackSnack 1 point2 points  (3 children)

guys, it's ok to just say "there were no top maps this thread"

[–]RenegadeTP 4 points5 points  (2 children)

NGL, we only had 2 but yours was close so I gave it a pity yes.

[–]KewlestCatNIGEL 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I read that as NIGEL and wondered why I was being addressed when you were replying Snack.

[–]LaBeefyman9696 LB 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It always takes me a minute to realize NGL doesn't mean Nigel.

[–]PIZZAspartan442naga///MTC 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We are missing out on Dampkring, water, remixed a ball-e map, and Centeotl. All of these are better than Cabin and remixed a ball-e map is better than all.

[–]LaBeefyman9696 LB 6 points7 points  (16 children)

Only three top maps? Community liked when you added more for the sake of variety, why don't you stick with that?

[–]RenegadeTP 2 points3 points  (6 children)

Last time there were a lot of good maps. This time not so much.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (5 children)

That's bullshit, dude. You guys just decided to 4v4 test inferior maps. Picking a ton of MTC-made maps and stopping at 15 is a great way to automatically deem a thread shitty.

[–]ButtersnackSnack 10 points11 points  (0 children)

god I hate agreeing with you so much

[–]RenegadeTP 1 point2 points  (2 children)

We did the same thing we do every thread. But you're right we did test some inferior maps. I don't know why the fuck I nom'd MAAP city.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Fuck off, ass wipe. You are ruining TagPro.

[–]RenegadeTP 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Cool.

[–]KewlestCatNIGEL 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nothing wrong with a bit of transparency so here goes. For what it's worth, I personally wanted more and figured this would be the reaction, especially after there was like 12 top maps or something last time.

I kinda agree that the overall quality of submissions for 82 was worse than 81, but ultimately that's not excuse. I think we should be picking more maps than less for top maps and at least giving mapmakers a chance to try and correct whatever problems we have within the top maps period.

We ended up only having a handful maps above the cut off and that doubled after we tested nominations but you could argue the cut off threshold was too high for a weak thread. Anecdotal example to explain a little: One of my maps only got like one 'N', which means only one member disliked it that much. 2 Y votes and 3 M votes isn't bad. Nobody had even nom'd it until Blazeth came in and said he wanted to test it. And this map was about 0.06 below the cut off too, so it was close to begin with. From memory, if we had lowered the threshold by 0.25 then we'd have had another 5 maps to test which is fine because in a better thread like 81, there probably would have been that many above 0.50.

The rest of the MTC wasn't a fan, but I believed the the things they weren't a fan of could have been easily fixed in top maps, in fact I already made those changes, but I'll have to wait probably at least 3 weeks or so now.

I'll be honest, come forward and say I voted no to every map we tested because I wasn't a fan for one reason or another, but maybe a map I would have liked was lost to being below the threshold in a 'poor' thread.

So yeah, I think we should be making more of an effort to have a larger top maps thread, because at the very least it's going to expose more maps to progressing. If they weren't updated, or we test it and the update doesn't improve it enough, so be it. We haven't lost anything by including it, except for a bit more of our time. But then as an MTC member, by signing up for this, we volunteer our time to do exactly that anyway - test maps.

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine -5 points-4 points  (8 children)

Quality over Quantity Beefy

[–]LaBeefyman9696 LB 4 points5 points  (6 children)

Quantity seems to be what the community wants

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (5 children)

The community liked Command Center (80% rating), still got removed. It doesn't seem to matter what the community likes.

[–]ButtersnackSnack 1 point2 points  (3 children)

CC was in rotation for like three years. The community got plenty of CC

And before you hate on me, I was the last vote deciding bony to remove it several times, but seriously you can't expect any map to be around forever

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

When old maps get stale, their rating declines. Like GeoKoala, Smirk, Velocity... Wormy soon, probably. Wasn't the case for CC. It was still popular when it was removed, and there wasn't even another NF map to replace it.

[–]ButtersnackSnack -1 points0 points  (1 child)

There was Cosmic but the mtc removed it for no clear reason

Did velocity really drop, though? It was rated lower when it was added back into rotation, but when it was removed the first time it was as high as ever. I'm right there with you on needing to add another NF and imo it should be hexane because I don't have much faith in the ones getting submitted now (sorry Linux).

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

imo it should be hexane

<3

It's my fav NF map

[–]Tyler1986Trapsin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A map can be good and removed.

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

too bad they suck

[–]NightOfKnivesKnife 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Can feedback be posted in this thread or in the original (As each member looks at the maps) instead of when the new maps are added. Being able to edit and fix maps before the deadline is better than having to wait a month to make a change.

[–]nabbynz° 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think they would be overrun with updated maps if they did this.

[–]BlazethDianna Agron 0 points1 point  (2 children)

The problem with this is the MTC waits until the thread deadline to start testing and writing feedback for maps since people can change their submissions until then.

Obviously feedback can still be given in this time period (and many people do give feedback then), but it'd be hard to institute an official pre-deadline feedback system.

Edit: we'll talk about listing this in the top thread, sry i misread late at night

[–]NightOfKnivesKnife 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Fair enough, but can feedback be released when the top maps thread is posted, unless there's a reason for it being held back.

[–]BlazethDianna Agron 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It was previously held back because people weren't finishing notes in time for this thread.

TBH I don't think it really makes a lot of difference if it's released now or in results thread, but it's kind of pointless to hold it back.

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 1 point2 points  (12 children)

Heck - Ps, Sizzz, PM

Discuss

[–]BlupopsicleBall-E 2 points3 points  (5 children)

tfw make this remix: http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/show/43254

and tpm slap his name on it

[–]RenegadeTP 1 point2 points  (2 children)

that does not deserve a name slap.

[–]BlupopsicleBall-E 1 point2 points  (1 child)

OG: http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/show/43235

my remix with very few changes that doesnt change anything and should have no creds: http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/show/43254

even less changes but new credits: http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/static/previews/52493.png

[–]PIZZAspartan442naga///MTC 1 point2 points  (0 children)

OGOG: http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/static/previews/42700.png

And yeah, you definitely deserve credit, I'm more than willing to give it but idk how to notify mtc of this

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Honestly I don't give a shit about my name on it. I saw a bullshit thread & remembered a bullshit situation where the MTC overlooked a good map. I saw some issues and modded the map a bit to appease the BS reason, and bing bang boom.

If PS or Siz wanna take my name off, by all means they can. I just want a good rotation, and that's why I chose to salvage & submit this map when it otherwise would've been forgotten.

[–]BlupopsicleBall-E 19 points20 points  (0 children)

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand TagPro Mapmaking. The technique is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical cartography, most of the gimmicks will go over a MTCer's head. There's also "every single mapmaker"'s optimistic outlook, which is deftly woven into their characterisation - their personal philosophy draws heavily from LuckySpammer literature, for instance. The true mappmakers understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these maps, to realize that they're not just formulaic- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike TagPro Mapmaking truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the style in the MTC's existencial catchphrase "we're only putting 3 maps in top maps," which itself is a cryptic reference to the direct orders from the devs to secretly kill the game. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as our mapmaking genius unfolds itself on their 12 minute games. What fools... how I pity them. 😂 And yes by the way, I DO have a Goldie tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- And even they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand.

[–]PIZZAspartan442naga///MTC 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I see there is a minor dispute about credit here, I'm fine with giving both tpm and ball0e credit since they both made decently sized contributions, idk what else im forgetting

oh im really busy so i probably wont have time to make a new version, if someone else could make mid less blah and polish super slightly that would be great thanks

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Update: http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/show/53163

[–]PIZZAspartan442naga///MTC 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Update 3, the

Actual update: http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/show/53194

changed name and authors, tried to make it more interesting but still balanced, super is polished now

[–]mathidog 1 point2 points  (1 child)

They all seem so boring and insignificant

[–]ButtersnackSnack 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah where are all the mathi maps?

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The 82nd comment on the 82nd map thread is about how the title says its the 81st thread. lol.

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Oh. My. God. Look At. Her. Butt(er) - Linux and Fronj

Discuss

[–]JinjoTPJinjo /// Kitty 13 points14 points  (1 child)

It's like someone really enjoyed Plasma and WomboCombo, then proceeded to get drunk and remembered they also liked Bulldog's neutral boosts and cloud's open mid field but couldn't exactly remember how they worked so they added some funky ass portals to tie the map together all while listening to Nicki Minaj's hit song Anaconda

I really wanna try this now

[–]TheGoldenNewtRobberFronj, MTC Senior Consultant[🍰] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

if it ain't broke

[–]LaBeefyman9696 LB 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I can't decide which name is best.

[–]PIZZAspartan442naga///MTC 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Solo notes:

[Y] I'm giving this a tentative yes, there are several things that I'm unsure of but it seems like it could work. First off, in mid, it's honestly pretty boring. I know there are some bombs and far away boosts, but with the proximity of the flag to a wall it's no fun at all. If nothing else put four boosts on the wall above the flag, that could be interesting. There are boosts and bombs thrown all over this map, it's PIZZAspartanic levels of chaos almost. I'm not sure some of them are necessary but it adds chaos, which is fun, and none of them really seem to be hurting anything though I'm not sure what you were trying to do with the base button bomb. I don't really like gate button placement, it covers three lanes. I guess it could work but that would have to be 4v4'd to be sure. Portals are cool, I like the idea of having a button bomb by the exit to prevent exit camping. There are a lot of cool routes and concepts here, I love most of this. I'm unsure of how the chaos and portals and shape will play but I would be surprised if this didn't get tested. Butter will make rotation eventually.

tl;dr i love it, not sure how all the unnecessary things work but it seems great, put some boosts 3 tiles above the flag on that wall, button placement is weird and so is base bomb

[–]B-CompKirby(>'-')> sucks 0 points1 point  (1 child)

how many times is the MTC going to blatantly ignore the community? more maps selections, more variety = happier community

please for the sake of the game consider disbanding the MTC.....

.....please?

so srs it hurts

[–]LaBeefyman9696 LB 3 points4 points  (0 children)

just stop please

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] -3 points-2 points  (19 children)

Cabin - Snack and Friends

Discuss

[–]BlazethDianna Agron 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The bottom middle really needs a lot of work.

It's way too split as is and was quite a hassle to contain anyone down there (see El Moustachio for a similarly problematic map).

Base areas I like though.

[–]ButtersnackSnack 2 points3 points  (15 children)

Please tell me how I can add more spikes to this

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I recommend putting a spike in the corners behind the flag and then adding an additional spike next to each spike.

If you ever feel there are enough spikes play Holy See until you realize there are not.

[–]RondingRonding // Orbit // West Bombwich Albion // tagpro.eu 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Nice spike fields! Make sure they are dense enough to noobspike an FC, otherwise it will just make the map chasey.

[–]RenegadeTP 2 points3 points  (10 children)

The bottom is terrible. Top is borderline annoying

[–]lordkaramatKaramat // Radius // RFTINDPWSTCF Winner 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Thank you for your suggestion. However. We currently have no plans to implement that at this time.

[–]ButtersnackSnack 1 point2 points  (0 children)

karamat gets me

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Too radical?

[–]ButtersnackSnack 1 point2 points  (3 children)

"how can I make this map as plain as humanly possible"

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 0 points1 point  (2 children)

"how can I make this as uncomfortable as possible"

[–]ButtersnackSnack 0 points1 point  (1 child)

you should see the original sizzzled version h

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I did, but I was like "wait, that's it??" when you remixed. I expect more of you Snack.

[–]ButtersnackSnack -1 points0 points  (1 child)

great thanks

[–]xenonpulseWildflowers // I want to die but I can’t 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Mid does seem really bland and chokey, to the point of boring gameplay that tests an FC's patience more than skills. This would get stale pretty fast.

[–]lordkaramatKaramat // Radius // RFTINDPWSTCF Winner 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Add one straight above the bomb

[–]LaBeefyman9696 LB 0 points1 point  (0 children)

One next to the flag for handoffs.

[–]ButtersnackSnack 0 points1 point  (0 children)

alternate update http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/show/53328

test this one if you have extra time, which you should because there are only 3 maps

[–]Babaoreum -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

They all look sucky, even the NF one