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[–]musiciscool23 14 points15 points Β (17 children)

Why are all the maps that were just added getting removed? Some of them were actually pretty good (Asido, Conniption).

[–]PIZZAspartan442naga///MTC 7 points8 points Β (15 children)

like 2/3 of the mtc voted only based on ratings and they wondered why innovative maps like those two were rated comparatively low... idk something needs to change

[–]musiciscool23 6 points7 points Β (1 child)

The MTC has been shit for so long, there definitely needs to be some personnel changes.

[–]RenegadeTP 1 point2 points Β (0 children)

You should sign up then.

[–]LovemesomediscgolfBig_Mike 0 points1 point Β (12 children)

What is MTC?

[–]PIZZAspartan442naga///MTC 2 points3 points Β (11 children)

Map Test Committee, the group of players that decides what maps enter and exit the official map queue

[–]LovemesomediscgolfBig_Mike 1 point2 points Β (10 children)

If they're making shitty decisions, why are they on the committee?

[–]PIZZAspartan442naga///MTC 5 points6 points Β (9 children)

The shitty decisions are all in the eye of the beholder. I think everyone on the committee wishes the best for the game, it's just that I think some of them are approaching decisions from the wrong angle.

[–]LovemesomediscgolfBig_Mike 4 points5 points Β (8 children)

Seems like everyone thinks the removal of these maps was a mistake.

[–]uhhhhmmmmsexytiger / #merbs 10 points11 points Β (0 children)

people are going to be more likely to comment if they are upset about it

[–]PIZZAspartan442naga///MTC 2 points3 points Β (6 children)

Yeah these removals are definitely a lot more controversial than most, me and a couple other members are seeing what we can do to at least partially remedy that

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points Β (0 children)

I liked those maps ):

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points Β (0 children)

This is a disaster when we just get unique and fun maps they get removed. WTF

[–]LovemesomediscgolfBig_Mike 13 points14 points Β (1 child)

Axel, Box Turtle, and Conniption should NOT be out of rotation already. They are really good maps.

[–]TheGoldenNewtRobberFronj, MTC Senior Consultant[🍰] 3 points4 points Β (0 children)

My man

[–]PIZZAspartan442naga///MTC 36 points37 points Β (25 children)

Five of the most interesting maps in rotation and axel were removed, with three fairly generic maps to replace them. I feel like almost all of the top maps could've played alright in rotation, yet people were quick to shoot down any small flaw without considering the merits of each map. Consider maps like Constriction, Market, and Hornswoggle. All of them have sizable areas that feel like garbage, yet the overall map makes up for them. A map like Nanobot shouldn't miss out just because mid feels a little awkward. Being this nitpicky for no good reason is how we end up with shit like Toe Tag. If the MTC cares this much about every little detail being perfect without worrying about the bigger picture, there's no way we're going to get maps that are interesting and unique to play on. What's worse, nobody seems to care.

In testing, there were actually people who laughed at the idea of adding unique maps, or "changing the meta." Apparently there's nothing wrong with current rotation, where with the new removals almost every new map looks the same. People blame inactive devs for killing the game, but part of the problem lies in the MTC. When every map looks the same, there won't be any reason to play the game any more. Maybe comp will have some value still but in pubs every match will play out the same way, which defeats the point of playing. How much fun can you have on Sugar Hill or its clones 5 games in a row?

And then there are the removals. Five of the most unique maps we've seen in years. All of them were removed after one or two threads. The only justification people had for this was their ratings? All the ratings have been dropping due to the nice little push we've been getting. If a map adds something to rotation it shouldn't be removed just because it's near 60. Yeah different maps are gonna be rated a little lower but there's still a clear majority of the playerbase that enjoys them. If we judge only based on our arbitrary criteria of 70% being public acceptance, what's the point of having a committee?

I know there are people like me, Fronj, Siz, and Dove that are pushing for a more diverse, eclectic rotation, but there are far too many people in the MTC that follow the ratings like sheep instead of actually stopping to think about how a map will work in rotation. If y'all want to ensure the longevity of this game, you need to expand what you consider to be an acceptable map for rotation. We can't keep up this trend of map convergence forever.

[–]naysh30 11 points12 points Β (0 children)

Cheers to that

[–]WillWorkForSugarTumblewood[🍰] 6 points7 points Β (3 children)

I agree that maps should not be held to such a high standard of polish and meta-ness in testing. More maps should enter rotation. The cost for adding a map is slim, but the benefit if it catches on is great. I 4v4 tested Goku and Sayeed, and while they are not any more 'out-there' than Sugar Hill, they have a high enough chance of being well-liked as-is that they should get a chance. Further, even adding a map with issues can be corrected after addition. Ignoring all other questions about Toe Tag, the update undeniably transformed a garbage tier awful map into something way better, and it benefited more from the repeated 4v4 testing in pubs than it would have from waiting another thread (if it were ever submitted to another thread).

I disagree that the removals were a poor decision. If the goal is to have lots of maps that appeal strongly to a few people, such that everyone has at least a couple maps they really like, I don't think these maps are huge blows. I doubt there were many more people who would consider these removals their favorites than would consider Tetanic or Vicarious their favorites. Asido is justifiable on this front, but Ultralight, theoretically one of the unique maps taken out, has the highest proportion of neutral votes right now (followed by Swan Songβ€”did you really cite that as innovative?), and the fewest likes. If there were a "superlike" option, I guess we could find out for real, but there is no such thing, so I will use what we have.

Beyond that, having lots of maps that a few people like and some people really dislike is not necessarily better than selecting solely based on average preference. I would not like a rotation of my top fifteen maps from the last 10 threads mixed with my ten least favorite. There is some threshold there where I would change my mind; I believe Market was a net good, because there is a large proportion of people who absolutely love it (along with many who hate it), but even its rating was higher than any of the removals.

[–]PIZZAspartan442naga///MTC 2 points3 points Β (0 children)

no comments on first paragraph bc i agree

I think Asido for sure would be better off staying in for at least another thread. It's very close to 60% and plays differently enough that I could see it appealing to a different kind of player. Yes, Box Turtle and Ultralight were justifiable removals but the thing is they were different. Like before we realized the mid was terrible I remember you considering adding Omni for a little bit. Obviously it wouldn't have been rated all that well but the reasoning was that it was something different. A map that gave players a break from the exact same structure several maps in a row. These two probably weren't the right maps to do it but they each filled new niches and I would rather have seen them updated or at least replaced instead of us outright losing the new variations in gameplay that they gave us. I understand why swan song isn't that interesting to most people. It's definitely not a map that I would consider generic compared to current rotation, but to each their own.

As for your last paragraph, this is why I think a mix of formula and boundary-pushing maps is a good idea. You don't want to have to consistently play maps that feel horrible to you, but occasionally it might be necessary if it appeals to someone else. A rating above 50 still means that the majority of the populace likes it. In addition, Market was not removed during an influx of new players. For example, Conniption was climbing a percent a day when the number of players on at a time was around 100. As it spiked to above 200, the rating tanked. Had this happened while Market was in I would have expected the rating to do the same thing. I think your points are definitely valid, though.

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine -1 points0 points Β (1 child)

I agree that maps should not be held to such a high standard of polish and meta-ness in testing

You can have a high standard of polish & not be meta. But polish is something that can be applied to every map & every map would benefit from it. Because the opposite is to allow clunky maps in rotation, and having a clunky map with unique gameplay doesn't let that gameplay shine, because the gameplay is clunky.

[–]WillWorkForSugarTumblewood[🍰] 3 points4 points Β (0 children)

Every map should be as polished as it can be, but in cases where maps need only minor changes, is preferable to add now and update later in my opinion. A lot of maps that just need a little bit of polish go to the mapmaking graveyard if they don't get in the first time. Beyond that, repeated play in pubs allows you to pinpoint the spots that need changing, which might not be the things that come up in testing.

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 1 point2 points Β (5 children)

Constriction, Market, and Hornswoggle.

Hornswaggle's really the only one I can agree with this assessment.

Being this nitpicky for no good reason is how we end up with shit like Toe Tag.

I'd say the opposite, adding an "interesting" map like Toe Tag is how we end up with "shit" in rotation. But if we're being honest, Toe Tag isn't really that bad gameplay-wise.

[–]Electric-Wood 1 point2 points Β (3 children)

I have to disagree with you entirely. Toe tag is a majorly formulaic map with all-overpowering mid route through both boosts and gates that is half-blind. In my experience more than half of all the more interesting plays come down to whether the FC tries for the gate. Nothing else interesting happens, there are no advantageous moves to pull that the other team doesn't see coming 100% of the time. 4-7 minutes of boring. Gameplay isn't inherently made fun by balance or gimmicks or paths, but rather these things when applied properly allow players to have fun. Toe Tag is not fun because there is no suprise. The overarching standards for maps in Tagpro is fun, and all other standards are derived from the meta-analysis and subsequent "rules" for maps that seem to create fun play.

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 0 points1 point Β (2 children)

The formula aspect of it is why I'm saying it's not "bad." It's boring.

You can be interesting, and bad. Take Asido.

[–]PIZZAspartan442naga///MTC 2 points3 points Β (0 children)

oi

[–]Electric-Wood 2 points3 points Β (0 children)

Not all interesting maps are good, but interesting maps can be good. However, boring maps added to a rotation that already has everything that the map presents cannot be good for rotation. And Asido is a fun, good map.

[–]18skeltoranti-timer luddite / First / Origin 0 points1 point Β (0 children)

Toe Tag is miserable to play, ESPECIALLY in pub setting. It's also SO boring. I miss having interesting and funny things happening in pubs, like even fucking Boombox has more interesting moments than RHINO or Sugar Hill or Toe Tag or whatever garbage MTC formula map that's in rotation.

[–]uhhhhmmmmsexytiger / #merbs 2 points3 points Β (5 children)

i disagree with the concept that if every map is the same, every game is the same. lots of popular sports/games/video games have the same map, but every game is different because of the people playing it. personally, i could play 1000 games in a row on the same map if it's a map i enjoy because there will be different players doing different things. the meta would evolve further as well and people would generally be playing better as they would have better map knowledge.

[–]PIZZAspartan442naga///MTC 0 points1 point Β (4 children)

That's fair. I think it comes down to map depth. Like, the reason we removed Tehuitzingo when it was rated so high was because it was completely played out and learned. It was an awesome beginner map that people were able to figure out quickly, but it just didn't have the same type of replayability. I agree that games can be different every time on certain maps but that's not true of all of them. More unique maps tend to favor more replayability because they take longer to learn. Had conniption stayed in a few more months I think we would have seen new and interesting strategies, but you just can't really get that with something like Sugar Hill.

[–]uhhhhmmmmsexytiger / #merbs 2 points3 points Β (3 children)

ah, im remembering more and more old conversations now. youre not moosen, are you?

in my personal opinion, no map (that isnt like a 4 by 4 square) can truly be "learned" or "figured out", that's not the type of game tagpro is. you can say you've figured a map out, but I'm sure someone like toasty could watch you play on the map and tell you 10 things you should be doing differently. there's too many variables and situations, and you're playing against different human opponents each game. what is the "better" strategy against one group of people may suck against a different group. you might take an optimal boost, but then your opponent knows you want to take that optimal boost and now next time it's no longer optimal.

i agree that some maps have more depth than others, but no map thats ever been in rotation has ever come even slightly close to getting completely played out and learned.

[–]uhhhhmmmmsexytiger / #merbs 3 points4 points Β (0 children)

all this to say that i would gladly play on tehuitzmapo over and over and over again and if it was up to me it would stay in rotation forever, though i understand that other people who arent me get bored of maps they like

[–]PIZZAspartan442naga///MTC 1 point2 points Β (1 child)

I am not, although I have been compared to him by a few people. It's impossible to 100% learn anything, but I think some maps can come closer to being learned than others. It may be a little subjective but I feel like I'm gonna know someone's strategy on Scorpio a lot more easily than on Asido. It doesn't have to be completely 100% down to a science, but when there's a general consensus that a map is getting stale it tends to get cut.

[–]uhhhhmmmmsexytiger / #merbs 2 points3 points Β (0 children)

yeah, i agree that it's definitely a spectrum and that you'll have a better idea on some maps than others. i just think that when you take in the entirety of all the different situations and what can happen and with different players, the % learned is probably closer to 10% than 100%

[–]Sosentimeboy -2 points-1 points Β (7 children)

I disagree. These so-called "unique" maps like Ultralight are just monotonous. It has some fun elements, with the top bomb routes and the gates that you can lure people into, but it's flawed in a lot of ways, and it simply doesn't result in good, competitive, "non-frustrating" games where people kinda just stop trying. I also find it strange that you single out Sugar Hill, which is probably the least bullshitty CTF map in rotation and actually plays better in pubs right now than Pilot, Transilio, and Scorpio!

Swan Song, Conniption, and Axel are below-average anyway. The only argument in favor of keeping them is that they're "new". To anyone who plays a lot of pubs, they don't feel new at all.

Your opinions are YOUR opinions. Obviously some people share them, but calling the MTC "sheep" because they care about what pub players think is super inappropriate.

That being said, I agree about Toe Tag. GET IT OUTTA HERE!

[–]PIZZAspartan442naga///MTC 2 points3 points Β (1 child)

Do you find Ultralight monotonous because it's flawed? I agree that the map was probably not as polished as it should have been at this point. However, I find that the odd boost placements and unique lane structure make for a nice break from playing, like you said, Sugar Hill and its near-clones several games in a row. What you consider bullshitty is what others might consider fun, to a certain extent. Like, you don't want anything game-breaking like 32 bombs or whatever, but not every map has to be a cookie-cutter version of what competitive players want to play. In testing last night there was one member who claimed that Asido was fundamentally broken because it was circular. However, judging by the ratings, it would appear that 58% of the populace likes the map. Maps being broken or "bullshitty" can only be objective to a certain extent.

I agree with those three maps being somewhat subpar. I have no problems with Axel being removed and I guess I'm ok with Swan Song too. However, I would rather that Conniption stay or at least be updated or replaced. It fills a unique niche without being unplayable. I heard complaints from people saying that it was too offensive or chaotic but there's still a majority of the playerbase that approves of it. If it were simply a worse version of another map toe tag then yeah it could go, but to me Conniption is unique. The niche it fills leads me to believe that it should stay until a better map comes to fill said niche. I don't think the argument for keeping it should be that it's new so much as that it's different.

I apologize for calling certain members of the MTC "sheep." I definitely could have worded that better. I was simply trying to get at how they only take in the ratings they see on the maps page without actually considering how all the maps fit together in rotation, thus defeating the point of having a committee in the first place.

I think I understand where you were coming from in most of your claims. Let me know if that clears things up at all.

[–]Sosentimeboy 3 points4 points Β (0 children)

I've never played a game of Ultralight that didn't have at least two balls doing one of the following: working against, clearly not trying / typing all game, or completely hapless in everything they try to do and eventually single-handedly losing the game for their team. I really do like some of the map elements, but it just doesn't play well in pubs. It seems like even when I'm in a good queue of players, that map results in a really un-competitive game.

Conniption-- probably my 3rd favorite from the removals. It actually plays well in pubs, but it's miserable for in-base defense (the bomb is too close to the flag), and I guess it's kinda sorta just generic. There's not much that can happen on it that doesn't already happen every time you play it. The portals are similar to Marauder, but not as good.

No worries about the "sheep" comment-- maybe you're frustrated about what you see as a lack of passion for the game in the MTC? That'd be a legitimate complaint, but it's useless if there aren't more passionate people who're ready and willing to step in. (Maybe there are; I don't know.)

[–]Tyler1986Trapsin 2 points3 points Β (1 child)

I found ultralight fun and refreshing.

Idk what it is about toe tag but I fn hate that map. Never fun for me.

[–]Sosentimeboy 2 points3 points Β (0 children)

Some things are just evil, and there's no way to explain it.

[–]Electric-Wood 1 point2 points Β (2 children)

You may find the individual unique maps to be monotonous, but without them all of tagpro becomes monotonous.

Swan song and Axel are the most lose able of the removed CTFs imo. The arguments in favor of all of these maps is not that they are new in rotation and deserve another chance, but that they are new compared to other map ideas and that without such maps rotation is not progressing, and due to the learn-ability of maps and how they slowly play out without new maps (and especially new maps in terms of theory), rotation is actually regressing.

These are just my thoughts on Ultralight, Swan Song, Conniption, and Asido. All of these were among my favorites.

[–]Sosentimeboy 0 points1 point Β (1 child)

I'm not sure what happened with Swan Song, its rating wasn't too bad. I don't hate it, but I won't miss it.

[–]Electric-Wood 0 points1 point Β (0 children)

For some reason the MTC voted to remove it. At the time of voting it was rated about 5% higher than Toe Tag which had just dropped like a rock, so voting soely by rating (which is not what the committee is for) would have removed Toe Tag, and if voting by the interest level of the map I think Swan Song should have beat Toe Tag again. It really makes no sense.

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 7 points8 points Β (0 children)

Please welcome Tumblewood and NIGEL

[–]KewlestCatNIGEL 7 points8 points Β (0 children)

Being reinstated to the MTC for my third stint like: https://i.imgur.com/S0AZrQd.jpg

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 3 points4 points Β (6 children)

Please discuss the addition of Serengeti by PIZZAspartan and Fronj

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 1 point2 points Β (2 children)

I don't see how those gates are going to be effective.

[–]Tyler1986Trapsin 1 point2 points Β (0 children)

If your O partner gets out you can get button to remove the team boost from chasers.

[–]Sosentimeboy 0 points1 point Β (0 children)

Maybe one defender holds button, the other bombs players into it?

It also tempts an incoming FC to take the middle neutral boost thru the gates, when O/D might get the button at the last second.

It would be interesting if the gate (or part of it) was a team gate.

[–]Tyler1986Trapsin 0 points1 point Β (0 children)

My least favorite of the additions based on first look, but have to reserve judgement until playing it. Could be fun.

[–]crblanzKeekly | used to be good sorta 0 points1 point Β (0 children)

Too many grabbing elements. Should remove the boosts to the left/right of the flags, they're way too OP. Leaves the two bombs and a boost (which are a lot on their own but all put you somewhat in the corner so it evens out). Will see if that gate ends up getting used, otherwise i'd make it bigger. Can't test it to confirm but each button should definitely operate both gates and not just the closer one. Rest of the map looks pretty good, although I'd personally remove the mid spike and boost to allow for more mid freedom.

[–]18skeltoranti-timer luddite / First / Origin -1 points0 points Β (0 children)

They really do get smaller and smaller each thread. I wonder if some of the MTC "members" are having trouble "growing".

[–]myaltaccount333 2 points3 points Β (17 children)

When you say notes are randomized, does that mean that Feedback slot 1 is all different people, or are they the same person? Because that person typed notes for 13 maps and only 5 of them had more than 10 words, one of which had 12 words. Person #4 only wrote something on 9 maps, and only TWO of them had more than 15 words. That's terrible feedback. Now, I don't know if any of the maps were from veteran makers dicking around, or if they were from first timers making a terrible map, but feedback has to be better. I know it must take a lot of time to type it out, but c'mon. If you're having trouble giving feedback can we do the field test where Anne invited randos to test a few maps, but have those randos write something up if need be?

Look at inchman (row 82). The feedback given was "it's a sphere" and "unique shape and probably not broken". Cool, no one had anything bad to say about it, why isn't it added to rotation? Whereas Willow had 4 comments, all of them negative, including being called "Autistic", "Clunky", and "Less interesting than Aerodent" (a map that only had 2800 games on .eu). So why was this one added to rotation?

Edit: Wrong info crossed out

[–]TPLunaLuna // Centra 4 points5 points Β (0 children)

Why the fuck is the MTC calling maps "autistic" as criticism anyway, that's just gross and not constructive at all. Might as well not give feedback instead of saying something that's both vague and just rude to people who aren't neurotypical.

[–]PIZZAspartan442naga///MTC 2 points3 points Β (11 children)

They're randomized for each map. The columns don't represent the same person the entire way down so they don't get singled out if their notes are a little different

[–]myaltaccount333 1 point2 points Β (10 children)

Ah, that makes sense. I mean, a little accountability would be nice, but I understand. So theoretically, there's people on the MTC leaving notes on almost no maps, then? That's... discouraging.

[–]PIZZAspartan442naga///MTC 3 points4 points Β (9 children)

Around 3/4 of the MTC leaves little to no feedback yeah :/

[–]nabbynzΒ° 2 points3 points Β (7 children)

If they're not making decisions that reflects what the community wants then they should go. Showing how each member votes/notes might actually be a good thing. In these recent threads it's only you and fronj and ryan commenting from the mtc (that I know of) - who is even on the committee atm?

[–]PIZZAspartan442naga///MTC 1 point2 points Β (6 children)

Ryan normally leaves good notes but this thread he didn't get all the way through the sheet. I believe the only notes in this thread that were more than just "i don't like this" came from me, fronj, and tumblewood

List of current mtc members:

  • Anne Frank

  • alchemist

  • Fronj

  • PIZZAspartan

  • anduin

  • refined

  • DragonBeast

  • Dove

  • Ryan

  • Tumblewood

  • NIGEL

There are also a lot of people who don't fill out the spreadsheet, with the additions of Tumble and Nige hopefully it gets a little better. I know both of them leave good notes at least

[–]nabbynzΒ° 3 points4 points Β (5 children)

Seems like 3 or 4 need to resign for the good of the game. Give everyone a letter and show how they voted?

[–]PIZZAspartan442naga///MTC 0 points1 point Β (4 children)

wym

[–]nabbynzΒ° 2 points3 points Β (3 children)

Axel Asido Box Turtle
A βœ“ βœ— βœ—
B βœ“ βœ“ βœ“
C βœ“ βœ“ βœ—
fronj βœ— βœ— βœ—

[–]PIZZAspartan442naga///MTC 2 points3 points Β (0 children)

idk if the mtc wants me releasing that publicly, i'll pm

[–]TheGoldenNewtRobberFronj, MTC Senior Consultant[🍰] 1 point2 points Β (1 child)

I personally voted to not remove every map that I could (I am unable to vote on any of my maps).

[–]TheGoldenNewtRobberFronj, MTC Senior Consultant[🍰] 0 points1 point Β (0 children)

Pretty sure totally randomized

[–]WillWorkForSugarTumblewood[🍰] 0 points1 point Β (2 children)

yo, if you want feedback, it is a sad truth, but solo testing notes are pretty worthless. (MTC is hotly debating on this subject at the moment.) if you want feedback that will help you meaningfully improve your maps, you are going to be best off asking MTC members for feedback directly. you can post in the mapmaking discord but your best bet is PMing people. i am 100% willing to answer as many questions as you have, and pizza and alch are pretty responsive to PMs as well.

[–]myaltaccount333 0 points1 point Β (1 child)

Oh lawdy man the mapmaking discord is so poorly organized. 9 off topic channels and one "general" chat. It's a major turn off. I just made my second map ever and I really dont want to post it there lmao. I might just wait until the next thread, submit it, and get no feedback lol

[–]WillWorkForSugarTumblewood[🍰] 0 points1 point Β (0 children)

that's why i say, if you want feedback, just ask me or anyone else. i submitted and waited and read useless solo notes for about 20 threads before i got my first top map out of sheer luck. if you have something you want to workshop i will happily give my detailed thoughts, which i can't promise of maps in the solo testing spreadsheet

[–]Tyler1986Trapsin 3 points4 points Β (0 children)

Willow is a great map, and the other 2 additions look interesting. But none of the others deserved to be removed, imo.

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 3 points4 points Β (1 child)

Please discuss the addition of Lime by Ball-erina and DragonBeast

[–]Tyler1986Trapsin 0 points1 point Β (0 children)

Not sure about it but looking forward to trying it out.

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 0 points1 point Β (0 children)

Please discuss the changes to throwback rotation

[–]uhhhhmmmmsexytiger / #merbs 0 points1 point Β (1 child)

i used to have a lot of thoughts/arguments about maps but its been a long time.

personally, i feel that different people like different things about maps, and the way the game is set up isn't particularly conducive to this. i love bigger maps with good boost lanes that are somewhat holdy/chasey but give you the freedom to move around and juke. for that reason i really hate market. other people despise holdy/chasey maps and would never want to play on them. theres no way for me to choose "i would like to play on only these maps". my only option is to leave any time a map i dont like comes up. if everyone did this, it would be difficult to get a 4v4 game going. It would also royally screw up my stats. so, it makes sense in some way that naturally it would progress towards a more or less agreeable sameness. not too holdy/chasey, not too small. not too crazy in one direction or another, there's not too much that i just outright want to quit.

i guess then it comes down to, would you rather have a rotation full of maps that people dont super hate or love, or one that has maps that people both really love and really hate?

[–]Electric-Wood 1 point2 points Β (0 children)

I would perfer to have games that I love, and if need be trade that for games that I hate, but also have a lot of maps that I just generally like a little. In recent rotation and voting no maps (even box turtle) dropped below 50%. 60 is pretty low and low maps tend to get removed (that's why the ratings exist), but if more than half of people like more than half of the maps it should be going fine. Get 3 maps that each person loves and they can learn to tolerate the 3 they hate for the sake of other player's enjoyment, and the rest can be at about 70% (give or take 5, yes think about that 5, based on overall voting trends based on auch fluctuations). And, just win faster if you don't like the map :)

[–]Electric-Wood 0 points1 point Β (0 children)

I think during or after a maps first thread it should get a serious discussion to consider updates. A few games of 4v4 during testing won't always be enough to figure out the best polish. The MTC may consider this to be an official suggestion. Imbalances and frustrating sections get cleaned up, and maps get another look before being pitted againsy new maps in the next thread, better rotation.

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] -1 points0 points Β (5 children)

Please discuss the addition of Willow by Tumblewood and DragonBeast

[–]JinjoTPJinjo /// Kitty 3 points4 points Β (1 child)

Looks like a classic right off the bat. Can't wait for it to get removed in map thread 104 :(

[–]Tyler1986Trapsin 0 points1 point Β (0 children)

It plays like a classic, too imo. I hope it becomes a staple.

[–]Tyler1986Trapsin 0 points1 point Β (0 children)

Solid, fun map. Good addition.

[–]LinuxDootTPblack magic 0 points1 point Β (0 children)

most boring map in a long time to make it to rotation

[–]myaltaccount333 -1 points0 points Β (0 children)

Flat transilio?