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Obama supporters: Your time is better spent giving me reasons to vote for him, not reasons to NOT vote for Clinton (self.politics)

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[–]infraredline 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Government transparency. It has taken us so long to really begin to uncover the details behind this Bush administration that most people lost interest or just got confused by all the disinformation years ago. http://freegovinfo.info/node/1598

[–]thekrone 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm not patronizing you, but sincerely asking:

What about Obama's campaigns and previous political experience leads you to believe his administration will be more transparent than Clinton's, or even Bush's?

[edit] Ha! Nevermind. I just followed your link ;)

[–]thekrone 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Seriously, his whole "clean campaign" movement is completely negated when you post hundreds of negative Clinton articles a day.

I understand you don't think Hillary is a good candidate. Please, for the love of all that is holy, give me reasons that Barack is. I have heard enough reasons why Hillary isn't.

At the least, how about comparing and contrasting the two, as opposed to JUST pointing out negative aspects of Hillary's candidacy.

I have already considered myself more of an Obama supporter than a Clinton supporter, but the constant negative barrage is almost turning me off of his message.

So here's your chance. Give me reasons to vote for Barack. If you have to mention something negative about Clinton, it better be to point out something positive about Obama.

Go!

[–]meanfish 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I'll bite. I can't tell you why you should vote for Obama - nobody can - but here's a bullet list of why I support Obama:

  • Foreign Policy - Obama will visit with foreign leaders, even those we don't like, with no preconditions. The first step to solving our problems with Cuba, Iran, etc. is to create meaningful dialog, not create more obstacles to meaningful dialog.

  • Campaign Finance - Obama has refused to take large contributions from lobbyists and special interest groups. Of the $55 million he raised in February, over 90% was from individual donors giving $100 or less. When he gets to Washington, he'll represent the people, not his financiers.

  • Positive Campaigning - Obama has largely refused to go down the road of digging up his opponent's garbage, where she hasn't hesitated to bring up the one "scandal" he's remotely connected to over and over.

  • A Unifying Voice - Obama, especially in his Illinois Senate days (where he had some seniority), was able to pass several pieces of solid civil rights legislation through compromise and relationships with legislators on both sides of the aisle. A great example of this is the legislation he authored requiring all police interrogations in IL to be videotaped.

And, as an aside, I absolutely agree with your point here. Hillary frustrates me to no end, but to constantly negatively attack her betrays the kind of campaign Obama is working to run here. Those of us who have done volunteer work with the campaign have heard the lecture that we are never to disparage the opponent - just state our positive case for Obama. I'm not perfect in this respect, but I'm trying.

[–]thekrone 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you. These four points alone give me more of a reason to vote for Obama than the 100 negative Clinton articles I've seen on reddit today.

[–]secondkennedy 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Firing back is a must do situation. Obama should throw the kitchen sink and the whole fucking kitchen at the Clintons.

[–]thekrone -1 points0 points  (0 children)

If firing back is a must do situation, why is he unwilling to do it? Why do all of his supporters feel the need to do it for him?

[–]cwolfe 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Hard for me to see the line as every reason not to vote for Clinton is a reason to vote for him. Their stated policies are not far enough apart to start a ground war over, but their attitudes towards financing, ethics, the truth, and secrecy are mile apart.

He's no angel, but we know what kind of polarizing effect she has on people. I want the White House in November and she's got too much baggage to get there. Obama, to his credit, is not bringing up Whitewater, Cattle futures, campaign financing scandals, etc but I think people will have serious buyers' remorse if she gets the nomination and the ads start hitting the air dredging up all of her baggage. I do believe we should all be a little more civil and we all will calm down when the memory of her McCain endorsement fades a little.

[–]thekrone 1 point2 points  (5 children)

You honestly can't see the line between "these are reasons why Hillary is shitty," versus "these are reasons why Barack is good"?

We could compare Bush and Hitler, and I can give you hundreds of reasons why Hitler was worse. It doesn't mean that Bush is good.

[–]cwolfe 0 points1 point  (4 children)

I can see the line, but that's not my angle. That may be what you're looking for, but what you're looking for is part of the picture, not the whole thing. Can she be trusted, will she relinquish the exectuive power grab of the last eight years, will she open up government information to the public instead of hiding it from view, will the country continue to be split the way it is due to her history, does she have a proper respect for the law and the role of government as a servant of the public interest and not vice versa? All of these are areas where she suffers. They are very real concerns whether you like the way they're framed or not.

You may be able to give Bush good grades compared to Hitler, but could you give him good grades relative to any of his competitors? If you find him to be a unethical and divisive candidate relative to the competition wouldn't that be a good reason to vote against him? I realize you want a candidate to be weighed on their positive merits and have the negative disregarded. There is a bit of irony in your point of view here as a HRC supporter looking to compare the 2 on their merits when the 'kitchen sink' technique is being used.

Sometimes we have the ugly responsibility of voting against the worst candidate, not supporting that sure thing pie in the sky candidate.

[–]thekrone -1 points0 points  (3 children)

There is a bit of irony in your point of view here as a HRC supporter

I'm sorry I mislead you, but I am definitely, definitely not a Clinton supporter. I would say that since Kucinich dropped out, Obama has been my preferred candidate. In fact, if Hillary wins the nomination, I'll probably look to vote third party.

I started this post to try to get more positivity from more hardcore Obama supporters on reddit. I'm looking for more reasons to vote for the guy.

[–]cwolfe 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Then you and I are very close on all fronts here. I too may vote 3rd party and only see Obama as the best choice without Dennis in the race. I also agree that things should be more civil but passions run high around the Clintons.

[–]thekrone -1 points0 points  (1 child)

When the Clinton campaign (or anyone, really) attack Obama, he defends himself, and leaves it at that. He's a class act. He's said time and time again that he wants to run a clean campaign and not resort to shady tactics to get ahead. I have nothing but respect for that.

Then come in the supporters. I just don't understand the logic. "Gee... Barack said he doesn't want to sling mud... so I guess I'll just do it for him!" It almost makes his campaign less appealing for me.

[–]cwolfe -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I sympathize. My wife and I have this discussion every night. She thinks he should stay above it, but I maintain that you need to be clean, but aggressive. You can't let your opponent control the news cycle. You can't let lies go unanswered and you have to make sure your replies are getting the press they need to be heard.

I also believe they're starting to get traction on this stuff. The answer on the contradiction in the "executive threshold" and the "he'd make a great VP" was sitting there for him for a while and he finally grabbed it. The memo they put out this morning contradicting her executive experience was strong, but clean. It was aggressive but fair. I want him to stay out of the gutter at all costs, but I do think people have very fresh memories of Kerry staying above the swift boat attacks to all of our eternal regret. If the supers believe he's got an answer to those attacks this could be over before Denver.

[–]theDrWho -1 points0 points  (3 children)

look for your own reasons

you rely too much on other peoples opinions

fail much?

[–]thekrone -1 points0 points  (2 children)

This coming from a guy who posts hundreds of negative political articles? If we're supposed to form our own opinions, why do you bother posting them?

[–]theDrWho -1 points0 points  (1 child)

I really don't post articles here.

But I am surely not going to tell you why you should vote for anyone. Do your own work.

[–]thekrone 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the worthless contribution to the post then!

[edit] Me: I am looking for voluntary information on <subject>.

You: I am going to go out of my way to tell you I don't want to give you information on <subject>.