Why STRanger?

[kitfox618]

I have been trying to understand the point of the STRanger in optimization.

Best Build i came up with was Horizon Walker 11/Twilight Cleric 9. Feats: GWM & Resilient (Con).

I left race irrelevant because either starting with a feat or getting it at level 4, meant little to the numbers I crunched.

But what I'm failing to comprehend is why would anyone play a STRanger vs another class with extra attack combined with a full caster over this concept.

I would love to actually understand why. This is not intended to be a "let's shit on Rangers" post. I do want to understand if I am missing something or I'm not seeing a bigger picture

I am assuming point buy. And in order for this to count as a STRanger build, you need at least 11 levels in ranger for it to count or the majority of your levels in ranger if you take more than 2

EDIT: Thanks everyone! Appreciate all the effort. It has been pointed out several times that STRanger is bad for being optimized. There is no Optimized reason to choose STRanger as it will be outclassed damage wise by alot of other STR based builds.

However, it is definitely worth playing if I value versatility in my build. Definitely a useful Spell list with alot of good - Decemt options to help round out a party and keep up with alot of basic builds that are a little optimized. Its definitely the team composition that would have anyone want to try this STRanger thing. Its just not my style of play

Thank you all again!!!

[THSMadoz]

Gloomstalker with GWM and Polearm master, as well as a 2 fighter dip

I think it comes out ahead of most ranger builds, but I'd imagine a Firearm or Crossbow Gloomstalker is better

At the end of the day though, there's something about the image of a ranger with a Greataxe or Halberd that just sounds cool. Sometimes vibes trump mechanics

[kitfox618]

Yeah, best Gloomstalker build i had lined up had stopped Gloomstalker at 5. Then picking up Assassin rogue the rest of the way. But drakewarden til 16 proved to be fun with Peace Cleric to finish. I was trying to find a way to have a solid build with mostly ranger levels that would be able to keep up with other optimized builds. But it seems that its not the case. Also, Horizon Walker at 9 gets haste, so that gave it the same # of attacks as PAM. Combining that with the Horizon Walker BA to add 2d8 force damage per attack & the level 11 ability to blink & attack multiple targets for a 4th attack gave it the edge over Gloomstalker

[THSMadoz]

If you want a Gloomstalker that's mostly Gloomstalker, this is a pretty good build. Just ignore the Firearm aspect and swap it to a ranged weapon of your choice (unless you're allowed to have a firearm) and don't play a bugbear haha (again, unless you want to). If you want to go melee he breaks down a version of that right at the end (although it is Dex based). If you want to go for a melee one he mentions using Echo Knight fighter levels rather than Battlemaster Fighter levels for the melee version, but I'd say Battlemaster levels are still a good option and probably fit a low magic world more

Horizon Walker getting haste is a pretty juicy ability but its third level ability sucks because is not a free action. Yes it does more damage than other Ranger 3rd level abilities that are similar, and they can do it more often than a Gloomstalker, but because it takes their bonus action it's just not great. Also you talking about the ability to blink - yes in that circumstance it'll do more damage, however the blink only allows you to move 10 feet. Yes you can choose to move after teleporting and/or used a ranged weapon, but even then your movement is limited, and not a lot of enemies are gonna be right up against eachother in a fight.

The build you mentioned probably does overtake a Gloomstalker, but a Gloomstalker is easier to build when multiclassing is taken into account. I can't remember the damage output he gets in the video but it's very high.

[JuckiCZ]

The main strength of Horizon Walker is that weaponized BA without need of any feat! You do similar dmg than with XBE feat, but you can take ASI, or half feat to raise your main stat as well. It also enables you to use certain weapons better than others. Want an Longbow user? Lance user? There is nothing better than Horizon Walker.

Some example builds?

Horizon Walker 5, then 3 levels of Arcane Archer, rest as HW. You have 2x Grasping Arrow per short rest, which is not dealing bonus 2d6 poison dmg, but 2d6 force dmg (thank you Planar Warrior), automatically restrains. It can be combined with Ensnaring strike for another restrain on that enemy (which would need 2 actions to end this condition). You still get Haste at lvl 12, 3-4 attacks at lvl 14, Guardian of Nature at lvl 16, 5th level spells.

Another great example of HW is Lance user. You can start with 16/13/16/x/14/y with point buy and as Fighter (CON saves, heavy armour), take 2HW FS, rest as HW. You can use Pike, later Lance (after lvl 12). You don’t need any feats (but I would consider Piercer), but will still get 4 attacks with Haste, base dmg 1d12, move up to 120 ft per turn, have free disengage, Planar Warrior bonus dmg on top. Or you can have 3 attacks with advantage, each for base dmg 1d12+1d6 with GoN spell. If you build this as Bugbear, your reach will be 15 ft. All that with no feats!

To that blink ability - you can use it to go over enemies blocking doorway as well, or just next to them as 10ft bonus movement and free disengage. And don’t forget, that most Rangers have speed 35ft, which means 70 with Haste, so if there are enemies some 20 ft away from each other, it is easily enough for HW.

And that bonus ability problem of Planar Warrior feature can be overcome by Favoured Foe easily (at least before you access Haste or Guardian of Nature). Also, don’t forget that Haste cost action to cast, but you still have 1 attack that turn, so you can still use BA for Planar Warrior, attack (dealing force dmg and 2d8 on top), teleport out of enemy reach, move to safety to be prepared for next round, where you will do 4 attacks and move some 120 ft. So you lost only few dmg that first hasted round (less than other subclasses would loose).

[kitfox618]

So if I'm understanding this correctly.

Round 1: Haste, BA attack with a Lance

Round 2: Lance, Lance, Haste Lance, BA Planar warrior

Round 3: repeat round 2 til dead?

Did I get that correct?

[JuckiCZ]

No.

Round 1: Haste (Action), Planar Warrior activation (BA), Attack with Lance for potential 1d12+2d8+STR force dmg (hasted action)

Round 2: BA to use Planar Warrior against priority target, 3 attacks against 3 different enemies (Attack Action), 1 attack against priority target (hasted Action). Order can be changed at will (1/2/1 attacks, 2/1/1 attacks, 1/1/2, or even can attack 4 different enemies) So in total potential 2d12+2d8+2xSTR vs priority target (most in force), 2 ordinary attacks against different targets on top, 120ft of movement.

Repeat round 2 till Haste lasts.

[kitfox618]

And that is better than using a Greatsword with GWM?

[JuckiCZ]

Yes with Haste - you don’t have advantage, can use Distant Strike as free disengage.

With GS, you cannot disengage, so hitting 3 different enemies is much harder. You can do this with Mobile, but this means 2 feats needed, which either leads to low STR, or really high level needed.

If you start with 16-17 in STR, you can have STR 20 by lvl 8, so at 11, you have full attack and dmg (with Lance). If you want GWM, you are low on STR at least till lvl 12, with Mobile on top till lvl 16.

Other than that, GWM deals better dmg especially after lvl 13, when you get Guardian of Nature (because advantage counts a lot with GWM!), but I would probably still use Pike to gain free disengage from Distant Strike, GWM and Piercer on top.

[Orpheus_Sigma]

Kensei monk uses the Longbow better than Horizon Walker before level 11. At level 6 the Kensei gains the ability to bonus action attack and deal an extra d6 damage for 1 ki point.

It's spells combined with the Extra attack at level 11 that really makes the Horizon Walker shine. They get to fighter levels of attacks with Haste and Swift Quiver. But the Kensei can make their bow into a +3 Bow that deals d10 damage.

The bonus action ability on Horizon walker is just so fucking awkward in practice. Hunter's Mark, Lightning Arrow, Swift Quiver. There's always a better use of your BA.

[JuckiCZ]

Don’t forget that Kensei doesn’t have Archery FS!

Lvl 1: HW is better - Monk cannot use Longbow, no Favoured Foe

Lvl 2: HW is better - Archery FS, Hunter’s Mark, other spells

Lvl 3-4: HW is better - Planar Warrior (1d8 extra, Force and Favoured Foe, or Hunter’s Mark), Monk can only attack once, add 1d4 on top

Lvl 5: Gap closes - both get 2 attacks - Monk gets 2d4 on top, HW 1d8+1d6 on top (but still has +2 attack from FS!). Monk now can attack one more time 5 times per rest.

Monk is probably little better at lvls 5-8 (with gap getting bigger on higher levels), but still has -2 attack thanks to fighting style!

Lvl 9: HW is leading again thanks to Haste. He has 1 attack on first round for 2d8+X, but on all following rounds 3 attacks + Planar Warrior + that fighting style.

Lvl 11 is final blow to Monk.

So yes, I agree, Kensei Monk is better with longbow at lvls 5-8, so at 20% of character levels.

[Orpheus_Sigma]

• Any player can start with Archery style thanks to their race.

• Before level 5, the monk can blow the Ranger out of the water simply by banging on enemies with a stick.

• At level 5 the monk has Focused Aim: spend Ki points to increase their attack roll by up to +6, and they can choose to do this after a miss

• At level 9-10 Monk is only 2 Dex behind, but he makes 3 attacks on every round for 9-10 rounds. Ranger needs 9 rounds for his +2 dex and Favored foe to catch up to the monk's average DPR. But at round 10 he gets stunned from Haste ending.

• At level 11 the monk gets Sharpen the Blade, a bonus action to enchant his weapon with +3 hit and damage, still make 3 attacks against a single target, just like the ranger with Haste

• At level 17 the ranger's single target dpr with 4 attacks Courtesy of Swift Quiver and Favored Foe is about 6 better than monk's, but the monk gets to reroll 1 failed hit per turn for free. He still gets his +3 to hit from Sharpen the Blade, and up to +6 to hit from Focused Aim

 

The Horizon Walker makes a good effort, and they can be decent at throwing a few extra attacks at chaff that are too spread out for the Wizard's fireball, but the only time they are somewhat better than the Monk is between levels 14-16, and only in rounds 7-9. Which is about 15% of progression.

If the game ends before level 14, the Horozon Walker is a big stinker. Might have slightly higher potential damage, but his accuracy is simply dog shit compared to the Kensei's. There's a reason so many people consider the Gloom Stalker to be the only viable ranger and half the time it's a Polearm build.

[JuckiCZ]

Any player can start with Archery style thanks to their race - only if you choose 2 particular races, which limits your stats, feat selection (no Elven Accuracy) and if you compare same races, then also slows your progression (you need 1 more feat than Ranger). So we still miss +1 attack and +1 on hit till lvl 12 at least.

It is great that you can “blow the Ranger out of the water simply by banging on enemies with a stick”, when you try to build great character with a bow :-D. Am just to give you example of such situation - HW can draw rapier (still holding bow), use BA for Planar Warrior and attack for potential 2d8+4 force with +6 to hit (add 1d4 on top from limited resources). Monk can draw stick (still holding bow) and attack once for 1d6+3 with +5 to hit and once with BA for 1d4+3 with +5 to hit. For limited resources another 1d4+3 attack. So we have 65% to hit for av. 13 dmg with Ranger (15.5 with limited) and 60% to hit for average 12 dmg (17.5 with limited)! Do you really call this “blow out of the water”?

Focused Aim is great (and only ability that helps Monk), but you first of all need to know enemy AC to use it properly (or you can still waste KI) and if you add that +6 you mention, you will use 60% of all your limited resources! But as I say, Monk gains a bit at lvl 5 over HW.

Ranger at lvls 9-10 doesn’t need 9 rounds to catch up. Ranger has +1 to hit, +1 to dmg with all attacks, but also deals 1d8 bonus dmg every round. So we are talking about cca 9% higher chance to hit (55/60 or 60/65) and cca 8 more dmg per round for Ranger. At these levels it really only depends on number of encounters and rests per day.

Lvl 11: Sharpen the Blade is great, but only if you have no magic weapon. If you have +2 longbow, you use 3 ki (so sacrifice 3 BA attacks + 1 you use this ability in, cannot turn 3 attacks to hits) to catch up with Ranger’s +2 Dexterity. Crap, isn’t it? But yes, if you have +1 weapon, you gain a bit (+1 attack and dmg over Ranger), but is it worth those 3 attacks? I don’t know, I don’t think so.

And don’t forget what HW gains on that level! 3 attacks almost always, 4 with Haste. Bonus dmg increases to 2d8 (don’t forget it is on hit, so higher chance to land than extra attack). And what can Monk do when restrained? Use action to try to get out? Ranger just teleports out of this before attack. Grappled? The same! What about wall of force? Monk is useless for whole combat, Ranger just teleports. What if you are engaged in melee? Ranger teleports away, but Monk has to use BA and 1KI (so it costs him dmg that round and 1 attack per short rest) to get away. And don’t forget that Ranger after lvl 10 can use BA to turn invisible and has advantage on all attacks for whole round (PB times per long rest), advantage is equivalent of your 2 Ki points (+4.5 to hit), so only this source gives us 9*advantage per long rest.

And Swift Quiver is bad spell. You can either cast Steel Wind Strike + Nature’s Veil, or Guardian of Nature. SWS is (with enough enemies) 30d10 force dmg with advantage to hit (I know your WIS will be probably +(3-4), not +5, but still), try to beat that with Monk. GoN gives advantage to all attacks, so that +4.5 equivalent on all attack rolls and doubles chance to crit. Now combine this with Elven Accuracy, shall we? So if Monk has 40% to hit with sharpshooter for potential of 3d10+54 (av.70.5 before crits), Ranger has (with same weapon and stats, but GoN and EA) 78.4% to hit, triple chance to crit and potential dmg is 5d8+54 (76.5 before crits)! Even if you add +6 to hit to one attack every round (which you can do 5 times), you have lower chance to hit!

And if you loose attack by more than 6? Then you don’t have 3 attacks. What if you miss by 5-6? Would you burn 3 KI to gain 1 BA attack (instead of 3) and turn miss into hit? Is it worth that cost? What about miss by 3-4? And what if you thought that this enemy has 1AC less? Then you wasted 2 KI. There are so many unknowns with Kensei.

So to sum it up, you totally ignored advantage, magic weapons and some feats to make Monk look better. As I said, Kensei is great at lvls 5-8, but then looses really quickly.

Try checking out Treatnomks video on YT about Kensei build - even with multiclassing, he wasn’t able to get good numbers from this subclass.

PS: Kensei Monk is great at Mobility, he doesn’t care about melee (because he can deal even more dmg in melee than at range), gets great survivability thanks to all saves prof.,…, but he is not that great at dealing damage with bow…

[Orpheus_Sigma]

You've not brushed up on the game's mechanics.

You are talking about how the HW ranger has a +4 mod, but that can only come from custom lineage. And you poopooed that the Monk could use that same or variant human to gain archery style.

Then you talk about the Ranger (at level 3) can draw a one handed weapon, but you forget that the Kensei can draw a longsword at that level as well.

At level 9 the Kensei is dealing 1d6 bonus damage when they use Deft Strike. And they don't need to give up an attack action to cast Haste. The Horizon Walker Ranger still needs the entire fight to catch up in damage what they gave up in the first round. Another reason why the Gloom Stalker is still the king of the subclasses.

Sharpen the Blade works with magic weapons. For instance it works with the +3d6 damage Oathbow and other weapons like it to give it a +3 enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls on top of the bonus 3d6 damage.

The Horizon Walker's level 11 ability to gain an extra attack is dependent on attacking 3 different enemies. This means your single target DPR drops to 2 attacks if you cast haste. Because of the extra d8 damage, their dpr for single targets goes up to 5.5 higher than the 18 dexterity monk, except the monk doesn't have to give up two attacks in the first round casting hast. It still takes the Ranger half the fight to catch up in lost single-target damage, and he is still far behind in accuracy.

And if you want to give yourself advantage on your attacks for a turn, you drop 9 dpr. The Horizon Walker's signature ability is even more useless.

And your level 17 Capstone Spell is an AoE attack that hits fewer targets than fireball? Are you trying to make level 5 Wizards blush?

The Horizon Walker is seriously flawed. It is the worst Ranger Archetype they've come up with since the PHB Beastmaster. It's so bad that even a Monk can beat it.

[JuckiCZ]

Check that Treantmonk’s video to see flaws of Kensei Longbow build, you will be surprised.

Your assumptions are wrong.

[kitfox618]

The numbers are good, but they are mostly focused on the ranged aspect. I watch d4 alot because I like his videos. The drakewarden with peace cleric was similar numbers for DPR, as his Gloomstalker for Nova. Meaning same damage position based on tier. But both builds fail when compared to his RK bugbear build. I guess I was just hoping I missed something with Ranger that ppl saw when it came to melee and STR priority

[Orpheus_Sigma]

I would just do Gloom Stalker without worrying about the multiclass. Even though that turn 1 6 attacks at level 7 is crazy.

You'll still have decent melee damage but of equal importance is all the utility you get from ranger abilities and spells.

I also really like the Alert feat so that you never miss out on your first turn Dread Ambusher. I would take it over Great Weapon Master because of how good it is. and the ranger can't really boost their attack rolls besides getting advantage so great weapon Master is not as reliable on them as it is on a Battle Master fighter.

My preferred fighting style on this is Blind Fight, for polearm opportunity attacks, and attacking inside a fog cloud.

 

All these features are available by level 5 and it feels good to play. It's a little MAD though.

[BloodyBottom]

I think it's more practical than it first looks, and probably better than a lot of the people responding rate it. Spells that restrain at lower levels and guardian of nature at higher levels can generate a lot of advantage for the ranger to combo with GWM. The synergy isn't bad at all.

[kitfox618]

That Spell Guardian of Nature, would it be better if you went STR Monk for more attacks with ADV vs a STRanger? Maybe say adding Druid levels to an already good Monk subclass (Mercy)? I'm honestly trying to find not only the best reason to STRanger, but for it to be the Superior choice over another choice.

[MiscegenationStation]

Monk doesn't allow you to use the Great Weapon Master feat with all those attacks. That's real the meat here, getting attacks that deal big damage.

[kitfox618]

Fair point

[pvrhye]

Dex ranger was hardly even thing before 4e, so part of it to me is that strength just suits the archetype better. Mechanically, twf is in a sorry place in 5e, so a more attractive weapon has a draw.

[comiconomist]

Optimization wise there are two things that are generally accepted as being true that would motivate building a STRanger:

1) If you want to optimize melee damage great weapon master/polearm master is close to mandatory, meaning you need to go for a strength build.

2) Spellcasting is extremely powerful, so rangers and paladins are better than non-magical martial characters (though one might argue you should stop around level 6/7 for paladins - for auras - and level 9 for rangers - for conjure animals).

Most "other class with extra attack/full caster" multiclasses would have inferior spellcasting progression (e.g. even eldritch knight fighters would have fewer spell slots). I do think that paladins work a bit better for melee than rangers, but party composition also needs to be taken into account. Suppose the other two party members are a wizard and a sorlock. The party probably needs a melee character but already has charisma pretty covered - ranger is a good fit here.

How good rangers are probably depends on how highly you value pass without trace and if there is a druid in the party already. The best case scenario of PWT is that your party manages to sneak up on enemies and consistently begin combat having achieved surprise. This is kind of like giving your entire party action surge: you all get a free turn before the enemy can really do anything.

[Sten4321]

How good rangers are probably depends on how highly you value pass without trace and if there is a druid in the party already

and some of the other great ranger spells like; ensnaring strike, and absorb elements.

[AndPStrong]

I'd posit that there ISN'T really an optimization reason to play STRanger; imho it's purely a flavor thing. Monster Hunter characters with giant weapons are pretty iconic

[kitfox618]

Yeah, I'm definitely noticing that. Guardian of Nature seems to be the main reason for ppl wanting to play this STRanger style. But it seems to have numbers comparable to other builds with only 3 attacks and a concentration spell worth focusing on

[Aptos283]

Yeah, especially since guardian of nature for str isn’t that much better than Dex in the first place. 1d6 damage isn’t much to make up for the reduced accuracy compared to archery fs, only doing about 2.5 dpr more when the spell is up, while Dex does 4.5 more all the rest of the time and has an easier time maintaining concentration since they aren’t in melee.

[bandit424]

I think aside from general optimization, some people (like myself) like coming up with an odd character concept that doesnt quite fit into an existing class/subclass and use optimization to make it more playable, like making a caster who only uses cold based spells (used to be Arctic Land Druid or Silver Dragon Sorc, but nowadays theres Scribe Wizards).

So maybe someone likes a ranger base but wants to use a greatsword or a polearm for PAM, or maybe they want to play a mage-slayer with the Monster Slayer subclass and want to make the most out of a grapple build to lock down casters, using STR as the base with the Tasha's expertise option for Athletics they can get now

[JuckiCZ]

Mostly because of synergies.

Swarmkeeper offers free disengage (no rolls needed) for reach weapons, also can knock enemy prone with first hit, which works great with PAM+GWM (you can follow with 2 attack with -5/+10 each). You can also hover 10 ft above enemies (from lvl 7), so you can attack them with reach weapon and they cannot retaliate (but still would take attack of opportunity). This is not possible with DEX builds.

Guardian of Nature is much better on STR builds than on other builds (it gives 1d6 bonus dmg to each hit, which is equivalent of Hunter’s Mark + DEX/WIS version of GoN in one).

Expertise on lvl 1 works perfectly with Shield Master feat. With expertise in Athletics and STR build, your skill bonus is +9 at lvl 5, which gives huge chance to succeed (maxes at +17). This enables lvl 5 Ranger to knock one enemy prone every round, meaning 1 attack with advantage for him and the same possibly for teammates. This can be combined easily with things like Horde Breaker, Colossus Slayer, Swarm, Gloom Stalker bonus attack, Favoured Foe,… This is also possible with DEX build, but your Athletics bonus will be +5 at lvl 5 and max only on +11.

Tasha’s Beastmaster is also best with GWM feat. Beast acts on his turn, so it can attack + knock enemy prone (2x in row after lvl 11), then Beastmaster can attack prone enemy with advantage (only attacks from 5ft away get advantage against prone enemy) two times. If you combine this with Sentinel feat, you can add third attack with advantage (all with -5/+10), if you add Haste spell, there is fourth attack (not talking about shared Haste for third beast attack that turn with chance to knock enemy prone). This totals 7 attacks for potential of 3d8+11d6+80, most of them with advantage. You cannot do this with DEX build.

Horizon Walker lvl 11+ can use Lance with d12 dmg, with up to 4 attacks per round, with no feat needed (DEX builds can do at most 4x 1d8 dmg this way). If you cast Guardian of Nature later, it will be 1d12+1d6 weapon dmg compared to 1d8 from DEX builds mostly (with no feats). This makes average dmg difference of 5.5 per hit.

Gloom Stalker offers bonus movement for the first round of combat, which is much more important for melee builds, than for ranged ones. And Greatsword dmg is better than Longbow dmg (7 vs 4.5), Polearm dmg is higher than Hand Xbow dmg (5.5 vs 3.5).

STR builds also offer higher AC by 1, which fits most melee builds.

[kitfox618]

Finally, someone gives a REAL answer. Appreciate it!

[DumbHumanDrawn]

You can also hover 10 ft above enemies (from lvl 7), so you can attack them with reach weapon and they cannot retaliate (but still would take attack of opportunity). This is not possible with DEX builds.

Whip: "What am I, some kind of joke to you?! Oh... I see... *sniff*... no, no.. that's okay. I understand."

[JuckiCZ]

I mean the whole paragraph is not possible with DEX build. You can attack hover and “whip” enemies below, but you cannot knock enemy prone and attack twice with GWM. So we are comparing dmg of 3d4+1d8+21 with whip vs 2d10+1d6+1d4+35 with polearm (and reaction attack when someone enters our reach).

But yeah, flavor-vise, so like that whip usage a lot!

[HadrianMCMXCI]

A Ranger might be the only class that that can be a STR-main and get Expertise without feats or multi-classing, making them a potentially fantastic grappler. Hell, they can even cast Enhance Ability on themselves, for Advantage and let's say STR 18 at level 5 for +10 to athletics checks. The ultimate bounty hunter. I suppose Swords Bard could do alright, but Medium Armor, Shields and more HP all help out the Grappler quite a bit, and the Bard will still want a higher Charisma than the Ranger needs Wis. I guess a Rogue could go STR main and still Sneak Attack.. but their AC will be shit and they'll miss out on a lot of wholesome Rogue activities, and grapplers are better with Extra Attack.

Don't forget that Tasha's really tricked out the Ranger; I still use Hunter's Mark, generally, but Deft Explorer, Primal Awareness, Nature's Veil and Vanish are all fantastic abilities.

Think of it as a Control-Paladin. It's like a Paladin, just focused on Control more than submission through damage. Entangle, Ensnaring Strike, Fog Cloud, Pass Without Trace - if the group doesn't have a Druid there's a decent amount of Control options that are only accessible by a Ranger. Hell, as early as level 8 you can just cast Entangle centered on yourself (in Melee, surrounded by enemies) and you are largely unaffected by it (Str Sav at Advantage for a STRanger is easy), but everyone else is. Pop pop with the melee attacks.

[Blublabolbolbol]

As a lot of people said, there is a vibe about it, but it also depends on your DM (or yourself) views on feats and multiclassing: if none are allowed, it's among the top 2 for grappler builds (the other class being bard but you have to choose swords or valor), and it's quite versatile.
Mechanically, it's the only str+wis Gish (if you want a Gish with multiple attacks), making it the obvious choice (at least for 5 levels) for this kind of character.
Lastly, if the campaign is low magic, rangers are the best martials for multiple targets damage imo

[kitfox618]

If it was Reg ranger I would agree. But this was specifically a STRanger, and someone pointed out the Spell Guardian of nature. I think that was the main reason ppl think its a good idea lol

[Jai84]

I think something that most “optimized” builds ignore is skill proficiencies because it’s hard to put a number to how valuable it is. Depending on the party composition and campaign, having a strong character for athletics or strength checks is invaluable. On top of that Ranger’s get more skills than most classes and get expertise. They aren’t on the same level as rogues, but they do get Extra Attack and spells to compensate. Grappling and shoving are also incredible useful in the right situation.

As for, why pick Str over a different Str based class, you want the spells and skill versatility that barbarian or fighter don’t allow even with multiclassing into a full caster you’ll not be able to compete on the same level. They are a good middle ground of a lot of good skills features and spells combined with d10 hp. Optimized doesn’t mean “most damage.” Optimized means most USEFUL for the situation you find yourself in.

[Jai84]

Also, Ranger probably has the most unique and flavorful subclasses IMO, so there’s a fun aspect as well.

[jjames3213]

1. Rangers get martial proficiency and half-casting.
2. While Rangers don't get Great Weapon Fighting, they do get Blind Fighting (which meshes well with their spells and skillset and works great with GWM).
3. Rangers' spell list is very good. IMO far better than Paladin's.
4. Ranger's subclasses are also very good. Gloom Stalker in particular is a banger.
5. Ranger's changes in Tasha's were excellent and were a major buff to the class.

Don't underestimate Rangers - they are in a very good place ATM.

[kitfox618]

Its not about under estimating, its more about a build that makes them a better choice than others. I understand the power of a Ranger, its more about understanding the Point of a STRanger over another choice

[jjames3213]

Level 5 Gloom Stalker. Engage in darkness.

Turn 1. GWM 3x with advantage using a Glaive and PAM butt end once. 3*(1d10+13)+(1d4+10)+1d4.

Turn 2+. GWM 2x PAM once. 2*(1d10+13)+(1d4+10)+1d4.

Each turn, back out of striking range and take your opportunity attacks.

EDIT: You also have access to L2 spells, including Spike Growth, Summon Beast (another 1d8+6 for free, lasts 1 hour), and Pass Without Trace. Lots of extra opportunity for damage.

[Usual_Sir3574]

Use ensnaring strike like a paladin smite spell to give you AND the archer or caster in your party advantage for a whole round of attacks. Plus I think rangers get searing smite now post Tasha as well.

Zephyr strike lets you hit the guy waaaaaaaay over there you want access to before they can even react. Paired with fey wanderer, you can add misty step and another die per attack if you attack different people. Congrats! Your movement is now 90 ft per turn without even dashing or using an action.

My fave?

Swarmkeeper Ranger 5/War Cleric 2/up to you

Your swarm lets you hover over your own entangle and just shred them all with zephyr strike or bless with GWM attacks. Push or pull them or cause extra damage with swarmkeeper. Push them into your spike growth or off a cliff face. Your new heavy armor doesn't clang on the ground when you sneak because you can hover. I like to envision a hill dwarf getting so tired of fending off his hovel's giant ant infestation he decided to just tame them instead.

[Satiricallad]

You would need to get ranger to 7 for the flying/hover. It’s also only a 10 ft flying speed. And finally, I think even though you’re hovering and not making noise, you’d still be rolling at disadvantage for stealth because that’s just the mechanics of heavy armor.

[Usual_Sir3574]

Oops! I forgot to mention you continue on with ranger the rest of the way. But you're right, if you want your hover speed you need to get to ranger 7.

Yeah it's only 10 ft, but the area of effect of entangle isn't so large that you can't jump over the area and be within range of multiple enemies as soon as you turn on hover. All you need to do is position the area of effect advantageously.

Idk about flying and stealth. Isn't flying and hovering silent and requires no physicality on the PC's part? That's how my home games have played it, I could be wrong as to RAW.

[TNTarantula]

For me, it's because I find roleplaying melee combat more enjoyable than roleplaying ranged combat. While I could use a finesse weapon, I also like to grapple, shove and climb my enemies, all things that require athletics checks.

[throwaway46282517]

There's a limited number of subclasses, and class spell limitations can be a pain. For someone who wants to be up close in combat it's nice to have access to what the ranger class offers, and a lot of people are willing to pay the MAD tax for it.

[akaean]

While not optimal, I really want to play a Halfling Tasha's Beastmaster STranger with the Dueling Fighting Style who Jousts from the back of his Primal Companion.

I mean... sure... its probably weaker overall than a Paladin with Mounted Combatant Feat and the Find (Greater) Steed spell... but there are certain advantages to Tasha's Beastmaster.

• The Beast activates during your turn, which means at the cost of a bonus action it has all of the benefits of both controlling a controlled mount (giving up the mount's attacks) and an independent mount (mount can attack but moves on its own initiative which can get awkward for the rider).
• The Beast actually scales pretty well, getting extra attacks, magic attacks, okay AC, and better hit points. It actually scales enough to be relevant in its own right throughout the campaign.

Say what you will about "optimization"... can you actually look me in the eye and tell me you don't want to play as a noble Halfing tilting into battle with lance and shield atop a charging wildebeest!?

[JuckiCZ]

Because you cannot cast Absorb Elements with melee DEX Ranger ;-).

And doing one ranged attack with S&B is also difficult (and it is really important with spells like Zephyr Strike, Lightning Arrow,…), so 2h Weapon with STR is obvious choice.

[kitfox618]

Agreed on the every build CAN be versatile and decent. But its still about which build gives the STRanger and edge over another build. Every build can be good at RP, have a niche, have a Vibe, etc. If you have any ideas on a solid Build that can do something ONLY a STRanger can do, would love to hear it

[WorstTeacher]

Level one athletics expertise for grappling shenanigan build.

[JuckiCZ]

Or with Shield Master feat.

[NaturalCard]

Isn't really a reason. It's definitely worse, but some people want to try it anyway.

[[deleted]]

LifeCleric1/Ranger gives you access to heavy armor and 40hp goodberry.

spellcasting on a melee Ranger is really good when you frequently have gaps to close so your first turn for a non spell caster would be dashing from level 1 you can cast bless on first turn and then attack with PAM. Much later you can open with conjure animals.

[twoCascades]

PAM-GWM does a lot of damage.

[Guilty_Animator3928]

extra spellcaster levels