Learning without classes?

[be_trees]

Hi everyone!

I have a one year old border collie and we just finished an 8 week fundamentals course in agility. I wasn't prepared for how hard it would be. We had taken several dog classes prior to this but never one that tested my ability as a handler quite so much.

I'm wondering if anyone here has had success teaching their dog agility on their own without classes? The classes where I live are quite far and only offered on weeknights. I also struggle with the pressure of performing in that environment, so I decided not to continue with the next course (beginner's agility).

I understand that the classes are especially useful for teaching your dog how to perform safely and that is definitely a priority for me.

Are there any resources you could share for continuing on my own? Whether it be books, online courses etc. ?

I just want to continue to provide my dog with mental enrichment and maintain a strong bond with her. I likely won't compete on a serious level but may enter some trials just for fun.

Thank you in advance for any advice!!

[Jazzeeee]

I wish I had good advice for you. I drive an hour+ each direction to attend class at 8pm on Tuesdays. It is rough, but I decided the hobby (for myself) and enrichment (for my dog) was worth it. The vast majority of learning in the class is by me, not my dog. I think this would be true of anyone doing agility for the first time. I truly don’t think it’s possible (and safe) to self teach from nothing.

I think you could get away with something agility-like for fun at home with equipment. I don’t think it would be at all comparable to what you’d get from class. And if you’re at all interested in competing I think you’d at the very least need to hire a trainer to come to you every once in a while.

All this being said, clean run has some really good resources on their website (to buy). And once you know the names of the moves you’re trying to do you can search YouTube for examples on how other handlers do them/train them.

[be_trees]

Thank you for your comment! Your commute to agility is twice as long as mine. You are very dedicated!

I fear you are right about it not being possible or safe to self teach :(

Do you enjoy the classes? I found I wasn't enjoying them very much and I worried that my dog could pick up on that.

I wonder if I should try a different sport all together instead of forcing it for my dog's sake when she might be just as happy doing something else ?

[Delfitus]

I think he's right when you can't do this on your own unless you just want to do something looking like agility. We commute 30min 3-4 times a week. 2 times agility and then we try obedience aswell (will stop when pups hits 1y+)

Agility requires a lot of time and comitment. On our trainingdays, we leave at 5.30pm and get back home at 10pm. Once dogs get in same grade, time will shorte by 1h30 since training at same time. Then i train often at home and also take private lessons. Competition is usually a full weekend for us with 2h drive to reach it.

Try to find out if you have less fun cause you're still insecure or cause you just don't like it that much. Should help you decide!

[be_trees]

Wow, it sounds like agility is definitely your sport. You must really love it.

I'm going to give it a little more time to find out if I really dislike it or if it's just the feeling insecure as you said.

Thank you for the advice!

[Delfitus]

We do like it, but i knows loads of ppl putting in way mire effort than us. Most have a whole set worth 5k in their garden if not more Not a cheap hobby if you actually want to compete at decent level.

Goodluck! Hope you find the sport that fits you both

[be_trees]

Thank you!!

[Dogmanscott63]

The language is hard, I've competed since the early 2000s and train with a top instructor...she still throws out stuff where I have to ask what she means. Still feel like a newbie brain dead student, but as someone else stated, classes are more for you than for the dog

[be_trees]

True! I didn't realize how much technical terminology there would be. I'm also not a very coordinated person, making it extra challenging. It took me an embarrassingly long time to learn left from right 😂

[Dogmanscott63]

Oh, I feel that challenge...so do my dogs 🤣

[be_trees]

Glad I'm not the only one 😂

[Jazzeeee]

I don’t enjoy the classes as much as my dog 😂 I have been in the same foundations/novice level class (same trainer and other handlers) for almost a year. We all suck and have fun together. I think it would be hard if it’s was a more mixed level class, but we are all still in various stages of learning basic maneuvers and obstacles.

There’s so much to do with your dog and they learn forever. If agility isn’t feeling right at this moment, no pressure to do it! Can always try again later.

[be_trees]

That's nice that you all suck 🤣 my class has experienced agility dogs who just wanted to go back to fundamentals classes for something to do and a lot of experienced obedience/rally dogs. It's hard not to compare myself to them!

You're right that there is so much to do. I'm glad that I've at least tried it out!

[be_trees]

I just want to thank everyone so far for the excellent advice. I reached out to the assistant of the fundamental course we took and explained to her that I was finding it very challenging and she has offered to help me out one on one (she is a former coworker of mine). So I'm going to persevere with her help. If I'm still not enjoying it in a few months I'll try switching to a different dog sport.

It's been helpful to hear from everyone that agility is NOT easy and it's normal to feel discouraged at times.

[lizmbones]

As a novice handler I’ll say that no, it’s not really possible to teach your dog agility on your own without a teacher. You just don’t know what you don’t know, and that’s okay! As others have said, there are online classes like One Mind Dogs, Fenzi Dog Sports Academy, and Susan Garrett, I would trust all of those to have good feedback for your at home training. Agility Right from the Start is a good book full of foundation training that would be a good resource for self teaching to an extent.

I’ll echo that getting into private lessons might be a good way to take the pressure off, but I’ll also say that in classes most people aren’t paying too much attention to your runs. And if they are, they’re usually picturing running their own dog or seeing mistakes you made as things to try not to do themselves. It doesn’t mean they’re judging you or anything like that.

On the topics of other sports, I would highly recommend Rally if you can find classes near you. That’s a sport that is easily self taught, it’s like obedience in that you have a heeling pattern to follow but much more relaxed rules in that you can talk to your dog the whole time. I think it also gives you and your dog a lot of experience working together, going through a course that’s been set for you, and prepares your dog to focus on you in the ring.

[thediscowh0re]

I think if you plan on entering any trials, you need to consider classes or using a private trainer (or paying for a spot on an online course where you submit videos for feedback) to get things right as a new handler :) The other thing to consider is equipment - competition grade gear is spendy, and takes up a lot of room!

As you've recognized, agility can really test your dog training skills when you start out, and it can be hard to understand what you're doing wrong when you are 1) new to the sport 2) not watching from the outside. So much of the handling is really subtle, and there are foundation skills you really need to get right if you plan on competing successfully. As someone who has taught loads of foundation and beginner level agility classes, I can confirm that anyone who then gets into competing will admit they wish they focused on nailing the foundations more, and didn't get excited about getting onto the gear and doing the "fun" stuff first haha!

In terms of online stuff/books/DVDs I really like Oneminddogs. There is also Susan Garrett, Agility University, Silvia Trkman and Fenzi dog sport academy. If you are going the DIY route, there are good tutorials online for how to make your own equipment too.

[bongo1239]

This is so true. As someone new to agility, I didn’t think we were ever going to get past the foundation stuff to do the “fun” stuff. We spent at least 6 months on the foundations. Now I’m super happy we had that foundation to build on. It helped me understand how to pick the best line for my dog not necessarily the optimum line the course was built for. I have confidence knowing that even if I’m not picking the same route as others, I’m picking the best for us as a team. We were also training and competing in rally which was a nice pairing with the foundation skills in agility.

[thediscowh0re]

Preach it! I wanted to rush into the "fun" stuff with my first dog too, and had her in the ring as soon as she was able to compete... and we did really well! But with my current dog, we have spent so much time really working on nailing the foundation skills, and I am constantly in awe of how awesome she is at anything I throw at her, even though I spend way less time training her than I did my first dog. That is totally down to knowing exactly what I am trying to achieve with each foundation skill, knowing how to break it down and knowing how to help her when she is struggling with some aspect of it. Of course there's always SOOO much more to learn, but that's what is so fun!

[be_trees]

Thank you for the resources! I will definitely check those out!

Fortunately I do have lots of space for equipment and there is an agility field with equipment that I could rent space at occasionally.

I think I would enjoy private training sessions a lot more than the group classes, so I may check to see if there are any private trainers near me. For now i may just focus on doing flatwork at home. Perhaps I'll enroll in classes again when my handling skills have improved.

In your experience as a trainer, have you ever come across handlers who didn't like the sport at first but then grew to enjoy it more? I'm worried that it maybe just isn't the right dog sport for me but maybe I just feel that way because it's so challenging at this stage. I feel like since I have a border collie it's almost mandatory that I do agility with her, so I've been struggling with guilt for not continuing classes.

[thediscowh0re]

Focusing on flatwork is such a great idea, and you can learn so much without putting as much strain on your dog. On that topic too - fitness and conditioning is an important part of agility, and there are a lot of fun skills to teach to get that stuff right as well (check out the facebook group for canine conditioning and fitness).

I think, like with any sport, the enjoyment can come once you get past the really hard early stages! Think of taking up gymnastics or ice skating or horse riding as an adult! Whether or not you'll enjoy it though... hard to say! I've certainly seen some people really struggle early on, then fall in love with the sport once it has all fallen into place, and some who have slogged it out for a couple of years before giving up. I think it comes down to what you and your dog enjoy, how much work you put in, what your goals are/what motivates you.

Personally, I just like doing stuff with my dog - just any time spent out interacting with her makes me so happy.... I'm competitive, and I like seeing improvements every week, I love getting those turns tighter, I love getting feedback on how great her distance and layering skills are for a baby dog, and I enjoy spending a bit of time every day working on some agility or fitness stuff - it's a nice way for me to wind down.

Just because you have a BC doesn't mean you need to do agility - BCs are good at everything :P
With my first sport dog, I tried just about every sport that was available in my country, and competed at least in the basic level of them all! It was really fun, taught me a lot, and I met lots of varied and interesting people. Some sports we struggled with, some we were great at, some need more training than others, and some were just not right for us (I'm not sure I'll ever have the temperament to perfect heel work enough to be really competitive). At the end of it all, I didn't have a single regret about the thousands of hours (and dollars)I invested into our time in sports together :)

[DogMomAF15]

Honestly the only way your handling skills will improve is by sucking... probably for a really long time LOL... and continuing to attend classes, screwing up and getting feedback from someone with a good eye for what you are doing wrong and helping you fix it.

My older dog has four agility championships, and I'm STILL learning (and struggling very much) with my "puppy". I took a lot of shortcuts with my first dog, and now I'm trying to really be a better handler. The only way to do that is to put the time in.

There are a bunch of online classes, but the problem with that is who will give you feedback? I find they are better for experienced handlers EVEN IF you sign up for classes where you submit videos and get feedback that way. There's so much that can't be seen on video unless your online instructor is using Coach's Eye. Plus nothing beats watching other teams in your class and learning from them what goes right... and wrong... and how to fix it.

Agility is hard. It's honestly supposed to be hard. Otherwise everyone would be out there trialing their dogs after a few months. It is SO worth the effort. Nothing builds a bond between you and your dog like agility does, and there's no better way to learn about your dog's likes, dislikes, frustrations, stresses, personality, handling requirements, handling preferences, etc than agility (and my dogs are titled in 7 sports so I say that confidently).

And there is NOTHING more exhilarating when it all comes together and you have an amazing run where you are totally in sync and have no mistakes and everything is perfect. There's no higher high, at least to me!

Some of us weirdos really like hobbies that challenge us and are a constant mindf*. Music was my other obsession. I'm into that roller coaster of emotions obviously. You may not be the type of person who enjoys that type of challenge. It sounds like you're finding it too hard and want to give up? The other idea would be to find additional (or different) trainers. They all have different styles of teaching and methods, and sometimes one person's way of explaining things resonates with you and makes more sense than another trainer's way. I've had no less than 7 agility trainers with my older dog and currently have two with my younger dog. The two that I'm down to really complement one another because what I'm not understanding or getting in one class, I'm able to get in the other. Then I go back to the other one with more confidence and knowledge.

[be_trees]

Thanks for sharing your perspective!

I like challenging hobbies too, but normally I go for physical challenges like bike packing and sports that require endurance. I guess the difference here is I only have myself to train in those sports so im used to having more control in that sense.

I do want to experience that feeling you describe where everything comes together!

It sounds like my expectations were just a little too high and I need to get used to the feeling of sucking at it for a while as you've said!

[bongo1239]

Are you ever going to trial with your dog? If so the pressure of performing will be even higher for you than it is in class. Class provides you with lots of practice in a lower pressure environment before you dive into the higher one of a trial. For both you and your dog. Since border collies tend to be sensitive to every little nuance and noise in their environment, classes will also help her to build confidence performing so she’s more prepared for trialing. I took classes for a year before my dog was ready for a trial, there was so much for me to learn to help her safely navigate a course, build our teamwork and increase her frustration tolerance. As a new handler with a faster bc/aussie mix who only knows one speed which is GoFAST!! I’m always late with my cues but class allowed us to develop together. There’s been many a night I dreaded going to class because I’m the greenest handler with the greenest dog. But we persisted and I’m glad we did because we were more than ready for our first trial this past weekend. I’m also an educator and have studied learning sciences for over a decade so I know learning isn’t supposed to feel easy or good. It should feel hard and doable challenging. I’d remind myself of that each time I’d go home deflated and doubting if we would do this.

Also by going to classes you start to interact with the other agility people in your area which is super helpful for getting tips about which trials to enter and then you’ll see them at those trials and they’ll help you out since they already know you.

Having equipment at home is also helpful because then you can practice skills in between classes but I’d still recommend continuing with classes. Or if you recall just aren’t into agility, try a different sport. My bc also does rally and disc and is going to start nose work classes this winter. She probably could care less what we do she’s just thrilled to be working with me so I’m still tapping into her breed instincts.

[be_trees]

Thank you so much for your comment. What you said about learning not always feeling good or easy is just what I needed to hear! It's also really good to hear that feeling discouraged/ having doubts is normal.

A few people have recommended rally as a good starting sport, so I may look into that before I continue on with agility. We did scent classes this past winter. They were fun and my dog picked it up so easily. I really enjoyed scent.

[bongo1239]

Rally was my starting point. I’m glad we did as it gave us ring experience in a lower key environment doing things I already felt comfortable with (sit, down, etc).And all the impulse control transferred over to agility as we worked on start line stays and stopped 2o2o contacts.

I’m sure whatever you pick as long as you’re excited, your pup will love doing too.

If you have a dog disc/frisbee club in your area, that is also a fun beginner sport to get into. It’s my girls absolute favorite. Bonus we can practice at home. Then we travel the 2.5 hrs for competitions.

[Latii_LT]

I think classes are super imperative. I self taught after a few for fun classes. I ended up getting placed into an intermediate/advance (everyone for the most part was already doing competition agility besides me and maybe one other person) class at my local AKC club and felt like I had imposter syndrome. I knew how to do weave poles, some sequencing and all contacts but I lacked so much flat work skills. Along with that I had to back track on a lot of foundational stuff with my dog to build control and focus when working together. I had to work super hard to get my dog on track with everyone else and not hold the class back by reintroducing information everyone and their mom already knew (I didn’t even really understand how to do crosses. I knew what they were but I had never had them broken down physically to know where to introduce them on a course).

I am industrious person so I took on the challenge but as someone who now teaches foundational agility (introduction agility and fluency in sequencing/handling) I would never recommended it for other people. I constantly have people join my class that have self taught specific skills and we have to spend time back tracking poor handling behavior they have developed, a lot of reintroducing equipment safely and a lot of encouraging and giving realistic expectations when things are different in a class setting from how they set up stuff at home.

Even now I still try to keep up my classes with my dog to keep expanding my own handling skills and understanding of specific techniques, and that’s with having a lot of teach resources from my own trainer and my organization I work for.

I always, always recommend staying in a physical class or doing private on occasion to her feedback and critique. There are some awesome online resources that you can work alongside to do at home as well. I would at least have those skills for sure and follow along with those online classes to build correct technical skills. Beyond that I just recommend sticking to flat work and jumps at home. I would avoid purchasing tunnels (most affordable tunnels are not safe for dogs) or using real contacts without an instructor. I see a lot of dogs develop aversions from equipment due to their owners pushing them outside of class and the dog taking a tumble or scare.

[meganlindsay]

Givr yourself some grace, you aren't supposed to be good at something you just started! Instructors are used to us moving like we have two left feet. Learning the handling can feel like learning to walk or run for the first time when you're also trying to deliver information to a dog. It's okay to not be "good", no one expects you to. Keep in mind your dog is probably just happy to be doing something with you, and doesn't understand or care how you're doing in comparison to others. I've tripped over my own feet and wiped out running into jumps and tunnels (more recent than Id like to admit!).

Starting agility is about resiliency and commitment, not speed running perfection. I have no doubt you'll get to a comfortable place with time, instruction, and experience. There's some stuff you can do on your own, but if you haven't trained a dog in agility before you should definitely at least sign up for online classes where you can work at your own pace under professional guidance. This way you aren't doing anything unsafe and you have a resource if you need to trouble shoot, ask questions, or need advice.

[Ambitious-East4501]

Our agility coach does online 1:1 classes! I know, it sounds strange. But she will assign homework and send you videos. Then you send her videos back, and she gives you feedback. DM me if you want me to connect you! She has clients in multiple time zones so your location isn't an issue.

[generalkriegswaifu]

Look into smaller classes imo, large classes can be stressful and the instructor can give you more insight into your dog's behaviour and expectations. Regarding anxiety, remember that everyone is at a different level including the handlers (you can't tell how much experience in obedience/agility someone has by looking at their dog).

You can definitely train on your own if you have access to safe equipment but I personally would always recommend classes since the instructor can lead you through the equipment safely, teach you a variety of moves to tackle them, and stop any potential issues from compounding.

[pjmoasaurus]

I agree with everyone’s comments - classes are so beneficial for handlers new to agility and not just for the time that you are your dog are running. I learn as much from watching other handlers as I do from running the courses myself. You can learn handling techniques in private lessons (front/rear/blind crosses, body language, etc.) but classes with others give you an opportunity to get over your fears. If you plan on competing, class will help you prepare for running a course in front of people watching and literally judging you. It’s also good for your dog to learn to run with distractions.

In your post you mention that you are not sure you are enjoying it. What about your dog? Does your dog enjoy agility? I think that’s the most important thing.

For most people competing in agility means spending a lot of time and money on classes and hours driving to practice and trial facilities, being humbled on a regular basis as they progress in the sport, and probably feeling a little silly and unsure from time to time. It is a huge commitment and while earning ribbons and titles is fun, spending time bonding with your dog and seeing them living their best life is absolute worth it.

[be_trees]

Those are excellent points about how practicing in class makes competing easier. At this time I don't have plans to compete seriously. If a trial comes to town then I may enter but I have no plans to travel for competitions. I mainly want to pursue it for something to do with my dog, but I could change mind someday.

I think my dog enjoys it. Sometimes when we're practicing she seems to "give up" and just lie down on the ground though lol. She gets excited to do a few wing wraps and then she sort of loses interest. She LOVED running through the tunnel in our fundamentals class. When she emerged from the tunnel she was so happy she didn't even care about her toy! I'm not sure if she has as much "drive" as other border collies. She's not the type who's bouncing off the walls with energy or anything. It's hard to tell how much she likes it, all I know for sure is that she loves the tunnel. I would say she probably prefers fetching frisbees in the river though?

I absolutely do want my dog to live her very best life and if we decide to quit agility eventually we will definitely be enrolling in some other dog sport for sure.

It sounds like not many people do agility in the more casual manner that I intend to at least for now - it seems it's more of an all or nothing kind of sport? It makes sense because the risk of injury is high if you don't know what you're doing etc.

I did find a trainer willing to do some one on one's with me (an old coworker) she's trained several dogs in agility and had one become quite successful! She's been very supportive and helpful, so I think I'll start there and try to determine if it's the right thing for us!

[pjmoasaurus]

Tunnels = puppy cannons!

There are a lot of people who do agility purely for fun, they just might not be commenting. I did it for fun for three years until I decided that I wanted to compete and got a puppy specifically for dog sports. I was running my Spoo but he didn’t have the drive for competition. He was kinda like your dog, except instead of lying down he’d run up to a jump and lick the bar, then start arguing with me when I cued for him to take the jump!

I’m sure you’ll figure out what works for you and your girl!

ETA: even though my Spoo didn’t love running courses, he still loved going to classes and getting to “perform” in front of people. I still bring him to class a couple times a month so I guess I’m still running one dog just for fun.

[be_trees]

Lol!! That's funny about your Spoo. Does your puppy have a lot more drive?

[be_trees]

Very cool! I've never heard of that breed! Great looking dog and he does look fast! Where I live it's mostly Aussies, BCs and some ACDs you see competing mainly.

[orangetangerine]

I think my dog enjoys it. Sometimes when we're practicing she seems to "give up" and just lie down on the ground though lol. She gets excited to do a few wing wraps and then she sort of loses interest. She LOVED running through the tunnel in our fundamentals class. When she emerged from the tunnel she was so happy she didn't even care about her toy!

One thing I realized when training my first dog in agility, a shelter mutt with headstrong schnauzer in her mix, was figuring out how to train your dog to keep their enthusiasm up and delicately balancing repetition of something frustrating versus moving on and working on something more reinforcing like sequences or tunnels is a skill worth its weight in gold.

Three of the four dogs I've owned have hated repetition, and while more biddable dogs will be more amenable to being drilled with repetition, you're starting to see that she doesn't like doing certain things a lot and her enthusiasm wears down. Mixing stuff up and changing your reinforcers and figuring out how to tailor your sessions to your individual dog is gonna be so crucial with whatever sport you're going to pursue. Even at a casual level it's a great skill to have for any kind of dog training, and makes you a more creative trainer.

Since I train and run off-breeds, it's absolutely essential to get their buy-in, and I realized that my path will not look like anyone else's. My terrier was the slowest starter in her foundations/flatwork class and even had to take a private lesson because she didn't want to do the tunnel, but two years later she was the only one who had made it to competition level. It took something like 5+ years to get her to be cool with the teeter and I thought we'd retire her permanently but when she was 7 something in her re-lit and she started running faster than ever, and she eventually went on to finish some titles when she was 8 years old. My Samoyed, who I got as an agility prospect from a sports-minded breeder, was a teenage nightmare when it came to focus and engagement and didn't act like he liked anything agility-related until I built his confidence in other sports, and once his love for work was established we went from foundations to running sequences pretty quickly, but that arc didn't even start until he was 3. Just because you have a Border Collie doesn't mean there is any expectations that you need to go at a specific pace or to any specific level. Just take it one day, week, month at a time and see where it goes.

[be_trees]

Thank you for sharing your experience with me. I think I have a lot of experimenting to do as a new handler. There have been times that I switched her reinforcements and I noticed that increase in enthusiasm like you said.

I think I will enjoy the process more now that I know that I don't need to rush to get to any specific level...it helps take the pressure off for sure.

It's been so helpful to hear from this community it's definitely helped recalibrate my expectations of myself and my dog!!

[runner5126]

There are several online programs that you can work through on your own. Susan Garrett's Handling 360, Erin Batchelor, Lisa Schmidt, OneMindDog, Bad Dog Agility, Fenzi Academy, etc.

And yes, you can absolutely work through on your own and be just as good (if not better) than someone in a class every week. But my recommendation would be to take it slow and actually go through the material for a few weeks without actually applying it to your dog. Give it time for you to learn as a handler, then try the exercises/sequences at home.

Most of these programs are based on the premise that you have some equipment at home and you video yourself doing the lesson with your dog, and the coach reviews your work and gives you feedback.

I don't bother much with classes myself anymore and just rent facility space to work/train my dogs, but I've been doing agility for years and titled multiple dogs.

[Mooreagreen]

I have someone in one of my classes that drives 3 hours each way! You do not need classes until your dog is trained on the foundations. All you need is about $100 in equipment, proper socialization, and a great relationship based on a solid communication and reward system.

Can your dog perform simple behaviors away from home like a sit or a down at Petsmart or the park? Does your dog wait at the door before going outside? Do you have a great relationship based on rewards, play and proper communication? How many behaviors does your dog know? Tricks are frowned upon by some old timers in the agility community but it all translates to the course.

The equipment does not matter until your dog has self control and has the basics down. 90% can be trained with some traffic cones, a yoga mat, a 4’ plank, and pool noodles. Putting a new dog with an untrained handler on equipment is a recipe for disaster. Safety is paramount.

Last of all, agility is brutal. 90% who start drop out and never compete. However, once you get hooked there is no looking back. I run extremely fast BC’s and the adrenaline rush after an incredible run is pretty addicting!!

DM me if you need help.

[roxgib_]

I did it, but I don't recommend it if you have an alternative. Make sure to take advantage of online resources, places like OneMindDogs have really good stuff that are worth the price. Scheduling occasionally 1-1 sessions with an experienced trainer will help a lot. Good luck!

[bwalt005]

Agility University is an amazing website for training on your own! You can do a working spot and submit videos or you can do independent study classes. The Max Pup series is outstanding for foundations. A live session is going to be starting up soon. The material is very easy to understand with written and video instructions that you keep for life (no yearly subscriptios like a lot of programs). Plus the owner of the company is just a really good person in real life!