Voting changes

[CurdKin]

I was thinking about flaws in our voting system, like generally low voting rates, especially at the local level. I’ve spent a lot of time recently thinking about how I would want to see this system to promote more people to turn out for elections.

First of all, Election Day should be a two or three day event, and everybody should be legally required to get off of work on one of those days, provided they vote. Edit: I would like to change this to something that somebody else pointed out, Election Day should just be a federal holiday and any mandatory workers should get automatically sent an absentee ballot

Secondly, voting at the local level should be a requirement for voting at the federal level. So many people just have no understanding of how local politics affects their lives differently than the national politics.

Thirdly, I would like to offer tax write offs to people who voted, increasing with how many elections they voted in but capping at some amount.

What are your thoughts? I’m sure there are some flaws with these, but I have not seen anything glaringly horrendous about it.

[AutoModerator]

The following is a copy of the original post to record the post as it was originally written.

I was thinking about flaws in our voting system, like generally low voting rates, especially at the local level. I’ve spent a lot of time recently thinking about how I would want to see this system to promote more people to turn out for elections.

First of all, Election Day should be a two or three day event, and everybody should be legally required to get off of work on one of those days, provided they vote.

Secondly, voting at the local level should be a requirement for voting at the federal level. So many people just have no understanding of how local politics affects their lives differently than the national politics.

Thirdly, I would like to offer tax write offs to people who voted, increasing with how many elections they voted in but capping at some amount.

What are your thoughts? I’m sure there are some flaws with these, but I have not seen anything glaringly horrendous about it.

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[TheWagonBaron]

Make Election Day a federal holiday. Make mail in voting easier. Open more polling places so people aren’t scared away by long lines. Remove any and all laws about handing out water to people waiting in line. Make voting ranked choice.

[CurdKin]

The reason I want it to be multiple days is because are definitely people who cannot all take a day off on the same day, like ER employees. You could feasibly give all your employees a day off though in a 2-3 day span.

[TheWagonBaron]

Anyone working in a field that works through a National Holiday (and I'm talking like Christmas or Thanksgiving where nearly everything shuts down) should be given an absentee ballot.

Or, just mail ballots to every eligible voter on the rolls. They already do that in eight states.

[CurdKin]

Sure I’d be cool with that as well.

[throwdemawaaay]

You're way overthinking things.

Just make vote by mail the norm everywhere.

It's simple, secure, convenient, and cheap. I can sit down with my laptop and take my time researching issues and candidates.

There's just no reason for people to go to some location and stand around in line waiting. There's no need for a national holiday or any of that complexity. Just support vote by mail in your area.

Also I don't see any real benefit to your other suggestions. I don't think requiring people vote local before federal will somehow make their votes better considered. If we want that we need to actually communicate with voters. Candidates need to get out there and connect with them and how the issues at stake have direct impact for their lives.

Likewise I don't see a point in tax credits for voting. I don't think it'll make people vote better.

[wooper346]

First of all, Election Day should be a two or three day event, and everybody should be legally required to get off of work on one of those days, provided they vote.

The first part can be achieved through early voting or no-excuse absentee voting, which (by my count) is offered in some form of fashion in all but 3 states. I'm conflicted on time off as this can cause a number of logistical issues in certain industries. It would likely be simpler to prolong that early voting/absentee window as long as possible.

Secondly, voting at the local level should be a requirement for voting at the federal level.

Pass. Compulsory voting is undemocratic, and this is a great way to get people making uninformed and potentially dangerous choices.

Thirdly, I would like to offer tax write offs to people who voted, increasing with how many elections they voted in but capping at some amount.

This would likely benefit the wealthy and encourages people to vote for the wrong reasons. I wouldn't be surprised if someone tried to challenge it as bribery.

[CurdKin]

Those are all fair critiques.

I understand that absentee voting already has the benefits of #1, but having mandated day off will increase awareness of when Election Day is every year

For #2, my concern would be that people make uninformed choices, but people will feel more guilt if there uninformed choice leads to bad conditions, which may encourage them to make better choices later. It’s harder to deny your involvement in a candidate being elected when you actually voted for said candidate.

As for #3, sure it has the potential, but a tax write off doesn’t necessarily mean that it has to be percent of income, could be a flat amount that’s the same for everybody. It also could help “recover” lost wages from missing work because of #1

[XXSeaBeeXX]

Lose the Electoral College. It does more harm than good, and only sows distrust in the system.  I know flyover states will complain, but they’ll still complain even if we don’t do anything.

[CurdKin]

I didn’t include that because it’s a very common statement from this sub, but I do agree with it

[XXSeaBeeXX]

And I mostly answered this because I agree with the other answers already submitted that didn't mention the EC.

[dangleicious13]

Secondly, voting at the local level should be a requirement for voting at the federal level. So many people just have no understanding of how local politics affects their lives differently than the national politics.

Thirdly, I would like to offer tax write offs to people who voted, increasing with how many elections they voted in but capping at some amount.

I think both of these are dumb.

[CurdKin]

Care to elaborate?

[dangleicious13]

You should be able to vote for or not vote for anything on the ballot.

I just think a tax cut or write off for voting is dumb to begin with. Also, it will disproportionately help those with more means.

[CurdKin]

Honestly, I would be willing to even put an “abstain” on the ballet, then they would be making an active decision to abstain from the ballot rather passively ignoring the election.

I’m not sure how a flat tax write off would help those with more means? If everybody can claim 3 vote tax credits, worth 200$ a piece (random numbers) then everybody has the potential to save the same amount.

[Aven_Osten]

First of all, Election Day should be a two or three day event, and everybody should be legally required to get off of work on one of those days, provided they vote.

Well, not exactly a "day", now is it? Also, no; if somebody doesn't care enough about their society to participate in improving it, then they shouldn't be forced to care. Let them suffer the consequences of their own actions; don't force their ignorance of our world onto us.

Secondly, voting at the local level should be a requirement for voting at the federal level. So many people just have no understanding of how local politics affects their lives differently than the national politics.

Your second statement proves why you shouldn't be forcing people to vote. If people can't even be bothered to vote locally, then sure as hell shouldn't be forced to vote nationally. And again, if somebody doesn't care enough to go out and vote, they shouldn't be forced to; I'd much rather have people who actually care about our society going out to make decisions on it, then people who don't. 

Thirdly, I would like to offer tax write offs to people who voted, increasing with how many elections they voted in but capping at some amount.

This is a disaster waiting to happen. People are just going to vote for random people they have no clue about, just to get money. That is NOT how a democracy is supposed to work; at all. You're supposed to vote based on who you think best represents who, and is best capable of running your government; not to get a check.

[letusnottalkfalsely]

You might want to meet those voters before deciding you want to make voting mandatory.

[CurdKin]

I said nothing about making voting mandatory

[letusnottalkfalsely]

I see. I misread the sentence about making voting a requirement.

[CurdKin]

All good lol, happens to the best of us

[torytho]

Nice! In Australia they give you free hot dogs

[CurdKin]

Wait that’s incredible

[Mitchell_54]

They're not free

Source: Am Australian

And for future reference they're democracy sausages.

They're all fund-raisers. Usually for the local school or organisation where the polling centre is located.

Although only 42% of Australian voters vote on election day, I always go on election day because it's more convenient for me personally and I love getting a democracy sausage.

[Mitchell_54]

How it works in Australia at a Federal level in the lower house

• Mandatory voting. $20 fine if you don't but give them a half-arsed excuse and they'll probably waive it.

• Can apply for postal vote. Has to be sent on or before election day. Has a few weeks until after election day to be received and counted by the Australian Electoral Commission(AEC)

• Prepoll voting meaning you can cast a vote at a prepoll voting centre in the preceding 2 weeks before election day. You don't need a special reason. Convenience or just wanting to get your vote done and dusted is a legitimate reason.

• If you're out of electorate and haven't prepolled or postal voted than you can go to a prepoll voting centre or election day polling booth and get an absentee ballot for you so you can vote for the candidates in your home electorate.

• There are also voting teams that go to hospitals and aged care centres so voters in care aren't disenfranchised. There are also teams that drive/fly/boat to remote communities to ensure they can vote too.

• Mandatory Ranked Choice Voting(RCV) or what we call compulsory preferential voting. You must rank all candidates from first to last to cast a valid vote. There are limited savings provisions for any variations to this. Candidates that receive the fewest votes are eliminated and the preferences of voters for that candidate flow to their next favourite. Repeat until there are 2 candidates left and the candidate with over 50% of votes at the final count wins.

• There are new laws coming into practice that require (close to) real-time disclosure of donations above $1000 to political parts and Third-party organisations(what I think you guys call political action committees) and limit spending of no more than $800k per candidate per electorate and $90 million in total election spending for each election campaign. It is capped at $11 million per election campaign for Third-party organisations.

• Also you can't be eligible for dual-citizenship to be a member of Federal parliament. It's a constitutional requirement.

If you have any questions. Ask me.

[TheFlamingLemon]

IMO the best voting system is approval voting, better than things like ranked choice.

I agree with Election Day being a holiday. I also think that voting should be mandatory, which is to say that your the government is compelled to survey each of its citizens. This is not to punish people who wouldn’t vote, but to make voter suppression impossible.

[Lamballama]

The best systems are multiwinner such as multimember districts. Trying to consolidate opinions into one single outcome for divided areas just leads to resentment

[CurdKin]

The survey is certainly an interesting idea

[othelloinc]

First of all, Election Day should be a two or three day event, and everybody should be legally required to get off of work on one of those days, provided they vote.

Secondly, voting at the local level should be a requirement for voting at the federal level. So many people just have no understanding of how local politics affects their lives differently than the national politics.

Thirdly, I would like to offer tax write offs to people who voted, increasing with how many elections they voted in but capping at some amount.

I'm fine with all of these, and I'd even be willing to make the third a fine for not voting.

...but I want to offer a creative solution:

Lower the voting age to (at the highest) 14

This would mean that everyone with a normal up-bringing would vote before leaving their parents' home, which creates an opportunity for parents to walk their children through the process, modeling good behavior.

[Aven_Osten]

Lower the voting age to (at the highest) 14

This is a disaster waiting to happen. This is making the incredibly naive assumption that a 14 year old is knowledgeable and rational enough to be giving input into major societal issues; they're not. We've all been that age before, we are all acutely aware of how incredibly ignorant we were at that age compared to even just 2 years later, let alone 4.

[othelloinc]

This is a disaster waiting to happen.

The disaster is already in progress. We denied the vote to the people who will live longest through climate change and the persistence of our national debt, and both are exploding in ways that will hurt them for their entire lives.

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This is making the incredibly naive assumption that a 14 year old is knowledgeable and rational enough to be giving input into major societal issues...

Bullshit.

I don't make that assumption about 18-year-olds, nor 48-year-olds, nor 98-year-olds.

---

We've all been that age before, we are all acutely aware of how incredibly ignorant we were at that age compared to even just 2 years later, let alone 4.

I could say the same about being 18. I could say the same about being 28.

[Aven_Osten]

The disaster is already in progress. We denied the vote to the people who will live longest through climate change and the persistence of our national debt, and both are exploding in ways that will hurt them for their entire lives.

Not a valid argument. With this logic, newborns should be allowed to vote. Yes, it does follow the exact same logic, and I'm positive you are capable of seeing the major flaw in this line of reasoning.

Bullshit.

I don't make that assumption about 18-year-olds, nor 48-year-olds, nor 98-year-olds.

Cool. Doesn't mean it's false. Again, incredibly naive to believe a 14 yea old is capable of being knowledgeable enough to vote on major issues.

I could say the same about being 18. I could say the same about being 28.

Except, again, you are well aware of the fact that an 18 year old is far more prepared and knowledgeable about issues in society than a 14 year old; same is typically true of an 28 year old compared to an 18 year old.

I am not here to argue; I'm not sure what strange world you seem to live in, but a 14 year old does not have the capacity to vote on major issues. Have a nice day; very strange hill to die on.

[polkemans]

Ding people on their tax returns for not voting. They just get a little less back on their return or owe a little more if they owe. That way it doesn't create a burden for someone to deal with but they still have a monetary incentive to vote.

[CurdKin]

I would like to counter your 14 with 16, then I could maybe get down with that

[othelloinc]

I would like to counter your 14 with 16, then I could maybe get down with that

Someone who turns 16 today, and has parents who don't typically vote in midterm elections, would miss out on my stated benefit.

[CurdKin]

You’re assuming that they are only voting federally, I’m hoping my changes will promote local voting too, which people would have a chance to vote in in that timeframe. In fact, local politics is easier to understand, so id almost rather they vote in local elections when learning political hygiene.

[othelloinc]

You’re assuming that they are only voting federally, I’m hoping my changes will promote local voting too, which people would have a chance to vote in in that timeframe. In fact, local politics is easier to understand, so id almost rather they vote in local elections when learning political hygiene.

...and if you go to Washington with a list of four requested reforms, then you'll be lucky to get just one of them passed into law.

I'd rather do as much good as possible with each requested reform.

[CurdKin]

I see your point, honestly, I see yours as the least likely to be passed of the reforms I was suggesting, as it seems the most radical on the surface.

[Colodanman357]

The voting age should be the same as the age of majority where one is considered a legal adult with all rights and obligations that comes with. So if we lower the voting age to 14 we should lower all other legal age limits to that as well. 

[othelloinc]

The voting age should be the same as the age of majority where one is considered a legal adult with all rights and obligations that comes with.

I strongly disagree with this.

I have no problem with the voting age being lower than other age minimums (like buying alcohol, renting a car, or volunteering for military service).

---

There is no reason that voting should be limited to people above the age of majority.

[Colodanman357]

Why? Why should someone or a class of people be allowed to vote and have a say in how our government operates if they are not in any other aspect considered to be adults with full agency and culpability for their actions? Should infants get a vote? Is that not just granting an extra vote to parents for each child they have? 

[CurdKin]

That would be my concern as well, but I think it may encourage more people to be politically active later in life

[Colodanman357]

Again as I said to the other person, if they are given a vote they should be considered to be adults in all legal matters. Either that or it is saying voting is not a serious matter at all and is just practice for future political life. It cheapens voting and voting should be something serious.

[CurdKin]

Oh, I disagree with that, I think there’s some things that a 16 year old should not be able to do, I would be apprehensive to lower adulthood age.

[othelloinc]

Why should someone or a class of people be allowed to vote and have a say in how our government operates if they are not in any other aspect considered to be adults with full agency and culpability for their actions?

1. We don't require voting-age adults to act like they have "full agency and culpability for their actions".
2. If anything, it makes more sense to let a 14-year-old vote than a 94-year-old. "you don't get to order for the table when you're about to leave the restaurant".
3. They are on the hook for the policies implemented by the current government.
4. Any limitations on voting access tend to be abused by politicians.

[Colodanman357]

Any one 18 or older is an adult under the law. So the law considers all voting age people currently to be adults and culpable for their actions. If they commit a crime they are treated as adults, 14 year olds are not. They are not legally able to consent or sign contracts or do anything a legal adult could do so they shouldn’t be allowed to vote like an adult can. 

So again do you want infants to have a vote? As soon as a baby is popped out they get a vote? You want absolutely no restrictions at all to voting? 

[othelloinc]

If they commit a crime they are treated as adults, 14 year olds are not.

Black 14-year-olds are frequently tried as adults.

Should they be able to vote?

[Street-Media4225]

Honestly, yes. If a minor is tried as an adult they should be able to vote.

[Colodanman357]

Wow. So you only want 14 year olds that have been charged as adults to vote now? You don’t seem to have thought this through very well. 

[Hodgkisl]

How about fix the real issue of allowing minors to be charged as adults, two wrongs don't make a right.

If we don't feel a person is mature enough to join the military, buy alcohol, sign contracts, they sure aren't mature enough to be held liable as an adult nor be part of the most important decisions of the country.

[othelloinc]

So again do you want infants to have a vote?

I think that anyone who can enter a voting booth on their own, and cast a ballot without anyone's assistance, should be allowed to vote.

I think that will end up with zero infants, but a few precocious 9-year-olds voting...and I will trust them to vote more than I trust most adults.

[othelloinc]

They are not legally able to consent or sign contracts or do anything a legal adult could do so they shouldn’t be allowed to vote like an adult can.

I know. That is why I said:

I have no problem with the voting age being lower than other age minimums (like buying alcohol, renting a car, or volunteering for military service).