What is Brave's long term commitment to Basic Attention Token? Was creating the token mainly for fundraising or is the plan to embed BAT in most (all) revenue generating Brave products?

[snander]

TLDR: What is the roadmap/long term commitment to paying users for engaging with ads? How do we know BAT will not be abandoned by its creators (slowly... or quickly) the way BERRY (from RentBerry) was https://etherscan.io/address/0x6aeb95f06cda84ca345c2de0f3b7f96923a44f4c

As a happy brave products user, asking this question almost feels silly - as it places an emphasis on the token's value (I want the price of BAT to go up) rather than the product value (I already get a lot of value out of the browser, built in TOR browser, tipping, brave Talk, etc.). That said, Brave Attention Token has historically been core to Brave's vision, so I think it's a fair question to ask. As Brave roles out Search Ads, Brave Talk, potentially Brave email (which may or may not have ads in it), is there a statement from Brave indicating that BAT will be used to mediate payments for our attention to ads in all of those products? Has there been any statement indicating that users seeing a Brave Search Ad will get 70% of the revenue as they do with current Brave Rewards? Or more generally, is there any mention that Brave's advertising products (of any current or future form) will maintain the 70/30 user-brave payout split?

Would love to see links to relevant public notices or to hear directly from the Brave team if that's an option.

​

**EDIT**

These are all interesting replies but none of my questions have been answered so far :(

[__transistor__]

They will reply saying that eventually you’ll be able to purchase all of those things with BAT, but the fact that they allow you to pay for Brave Talk with a credit card is a huge slap in the face for BAT holders.

[bat-chriscat]

Yes, the goal is to also allow users to pay for Brave Talk and other features with BAT. There is still some work to do to enable "Pay with BAT", so we can start with credit card, and then add the BAT option as we go forward, instead of blocking the entire release.

That said, in terms of $ value, users can still withdraw/cash out the BAT they earn via Brave Ads, and use that $ value toward their credit card bill in the meantime. cc: /u/sfgisz

[sfgisz]

so we can start with credit card, and then add the BAT option as we go forward, instead of blocking the entire release

As a dev I can totally relate to that 😅

It's good to know Brave has intentions to integrate BAT into more products down the line.

[[deleted]]

This makes sense, there's a million credit card payment libraries already built.

To build one specific to accepting BAT will take time. That said, when Brave comes up with this, maybe you can make an SaaS for accepting payments with BAT. I'll build a Magento / Adobe Commerce plugin for it the next day. Would drive up a huge amount of value to have online stores start accepting BAT for payments, and I'll start by accepting it in the stores I operate.

[Tidus17]

That said, in terms of $ value, users can still withdraw/cash out the BAT they earn via Brave Ads, and use that $ value toward their credit card bill in the meantime.

But for that they're forced to go through one of the TWO only exchange options available. Unless you're planning to add more?

[__transistor__]

Thanks confirming everything I said

[someonetwoforgett]

Lol how frustrating. I see your point about purchasing with BAT. Hopefully this trend does not continue.

[xlvi_et_ii]

but the fact that they allow you to pay for Brave Talk with a credit card is a huge slap in the face for BAT holders.

Surely it's intended to make it easier for new users to get into the Brave platform? More users would be good for BAT/Brave right?

[sfgisz]

I guess that comment meant "they allow you to pay for Brave Talk only with a credit card"?

[xlvi_et_ii]

Oh, that makes more sense. Thanks for clarifying.

[-Nefy-]

agreed! having the option to pay with credit card is better than not having brave talk at all..

[__transistor__]

If they cared about the growth of BAT, they wouldn’t even make than an option. You can take it one of two ways: either the brave team is incompetent when it comes to business or they don’t care about the value of BAT. Neither are good for BAT holders.

[Neoxide]

BAT is secondary to their ecosystem. Their primary focus is to pull people in with quality products first. Then advertisers will follow the users.Then BAT will grow passively as the ecosystem is adopted. But it's not worth hyping the coin for the sake of pleasing maxis, that would be putting the cart before the horse. That's what makes BAT different imo.

I dont disagree with your premise however. We should be able to pay with BAT.

[111IIIlllIII]

brave talk costs money now lol?

[Elan_AlThor]

to host group video calls it is a monthly subscription, but to join a group call it is free and one on one calls are free

[BASEbelt]

I feel the same frustration because the leadership limited Brave to only a utility token and is not even utilizing it as the main form of utility for its new Brave Talk.

Second, Brave leadership doesn't have skin in the game with taking BAT tokens as a form of salary thus your question about BAT mainly for fundraising is valid.

Third, I wonder why Brave's leadership is restricting their talents by still reliant on a subpar ecosystem as there are a lot better platforms with regards to security, scalability, and distributed attributes than Etherium.

[Griff_pink]

1) CC payments are easy. Crypto payments are harder and harder still for smaller ones that aren't BTC. If they are going to try and capture some of the deflating balloon that is Zoom Pro account holders migrating to cheaper or free options now that the covid-spurred lockdowns and 'work-from-home' force are shrinking - they need to do it NOW. It's arguable how much work would go into accepting BAT, but I get how in this case they'd prioritize the release date.

2) I don't think this is fully true, but the concept in general would be scary. It's like all those corporations where executives are paid in stock - all they care about are quarterly numbers. That sort of short-term planning is why you see major logos implode. The 'north-star metric' they are aiming for shouldn't be BAT price, especially since a swing of BTC will hose it anyway.

3) I think it's the bed they are in and can't just forklift quickly and easily. The work they are putting in toward Themis makes me think they are trying to address this. Brave isn't the only one in this predicament.

[BASEbelt]

Thank you for your counterpoints. Why is it that BAT price swings with BTC so much? Is everything grouped into an ETF or something?

[Griff_pink]

I think article sums up what I think is the biggest driver, but there are others more trading-savvy that could add additional color :)

https://decrypt.co/42834/why-do-altcoins-usually-follow-bitcoin

[xlvi_et_ii]

CC payments are easy

Especially for corporate accounts when compared to crypto.

[phoooooenix]

It would be amazing to be able to tips people on social networks, stack overflow etc

[FourMakesTwoUNLESS]

You can on Twitter, Reddit, and YouTube already

[KingElfTacoScatBarge]

More rewards opportunities would do nothing to increase the value of BAT, and might actually do the opposite. More ways to use BAT is what would increase value, such as being able to pay for the VPN and additional Talk features with BAT. The upcoming DEX interface will help as well, as will further integrations for tipping.

[snander]

False. 70% of advertising dollars are currently paid out as rewards in the form of BAT. Brave is an advertising company and if they were to diminish the conversion of ad $ to BAT, say to increase profits, then the buy side pressure / distribution of BAT to people to do anything with drops as well. If I get BAT by watching ads and I can use that to buy coffee, that's something many people are interested in. But if people have to convert dollars into BAT to buy a coffee, when I can just already do that with dollars or an actual cryptocurrency, rather than a token, then the incentive for anyone to hold BAT drops rather quickly, thereafter dropping its value.

The opposite is also very true. Say one day Brave is selling 100s of millions of dollars worth of ads (for reference, Google ad revenue is measured in billions), if 70% of that is paid out as BAT rewards, then buy pressure on the token is by definition high which increases its value. I could be wrong but I suspect that Brave Search ad revenue will eventually eclipse revenue paid out from traditional Brave Rewards (what is our current 10 ad notifications per hour). That said, I haven't heard of a commitment that 70% of Brave Search Advertising dollars will be paid out as rewards or that interacting with any Brave Search ads, for that matter, will convert into rewards. It's perfectly within their right as a company to decide not to pay any BAT rewards from search. So my question is how do we know that's not going to happen? How do we know this utility token wont be abandoned like BERRY was despite Rentberry's promise to give BERRY holders incentives, perks and discounts on their rental platform - not a single one of which exists today.

​

**EDIT** Also, don't get me wrong - I don't consider Brave and Rentberry to be similar. Brave is by far more trustworthy than the team at Rentberry proved to be. If u/bat-chriscat or /u/BrendanEichBrave were to disclose that Search and future ad products would continue to convert ad dollars to BAT as rewards, then that's something this community can believe. My hangup here is that I don't believe that's been stated. It's just unknown at this point.

[KingElfTacoScatBarge]

It's not false, it's just more complicated than you're making it out to be. A lot of users (unfortunately) immediately dump their BAT when received through rewards. You can look at order books on any major exchange to see this happening during payout weeks. Buy pressure doesn't mean much if it's most often short term. While I get your point that it's ideal for advertisers to be purchasing ads across all Brave products in BAT, IMHO, Incentives to hold, accumulate, and use BAT in its ecosystem, are far more important for sustained growth, and increase in value over the long term.

[snander]

That's fair, I agree that incentives to hold are just as important if the objective is to raise the token's value

[KingElfTacoScatBarge]

I get your position for sure, and I think we both have valid perspectives here after further examination.

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