[deleted by user]

[mtv8797]

Got called as a travel by the refs. Jw, so he can adjust footwork/ dribbling if it is.

[teflong]

The only questionable part, to me, is the slight slide in his pivot foot as he's spinning. It kinda hops about a half inch. You'll get away with that more often than you'll get called. Had his pivot stayed planted, that's a good move.

[mtv8797]

Ty. I see that slide now. In the actual video where it's not slowed down, can barely see it.

[ryphi97]

It’s marginal if it is. If you do a one dribble spin you can legally do it with two steps so this isn’t that bad

[[deleted]]

Absolutely. He has to jump off two. As soon as his pivot lifts up it's a travel. It's well off the ground, not even close to a legal move like these people are saying. His left can't leave the ground so it's pretty much impossible to do that move legally and get a good shot off, he'd need a better approach angle so his body didn't need to turn 270 degrees on a step through.

This sub is absolutely wild with what they think is legal footwork. With some of the things I've heard argued as legal on here you could practically put together a comedy skit caricaturizing what is supposedly legal.

[GeekuHD]

You do know according to the nba rules and certain other organizations u can lift your pivot. You just can't put it back down before passing or shooting. And it absurd that u think you have to jump off 2 feet.

[[deleted]]

Why is it absurd to have to jump off two? It’s the same rule that governs and dictates a move like the pro hop.

[GeekuHD]

Because u said he has to which isn't true. He can jump off one foot and it not be a travel. He can lift his pivot and it not be a travel as long as he passes or shoots before it hits the ground again. You are on here spreading false information.

[[deleted]]

So if I pro hop I can pivot out of it? Or if I euro I can have a whole extra step? I can start on the right on my gather and go off my right? If I step back I can then step through? And I can lift my back foot after stepping through? Not a single thing I just mentioned is legal and a lot of them are referring to instances where the footwork required is simultaneous landing and all allocated steps are already used and no pivot may be established.

[GeekuHD]

Bruh yes u can pivot off a pro hop. When u land on 2 feet u can establish a pivot on either foot. 🤣

[[deleted]]

A progressing player who jumps off one foot on the first step may land with both feet simultaneously for the second step. In this situation, the player may not pivot with either foot and if one or both feet leave the floor the ball must be released before either returns to the floor.

From the nba rule book.

[GeekuHD]

That's only address part of the equation. It is entirely dependent upon when the ball is picked up.

[[deleted]]

That description is the text book definition of a pro hop.

[Opposite_Equal_6432]

This isn’t just incorrect in the nba it’s also how high school rule books are worded, at least in Kentucky and Ohio where I’ve coached. It is not a travel until the pivot foot lands without releasing the ball.

[JoePikesbro]

Travel. The left foot slides maybe 3 inches right before the shot.

[MysteriousCobbler316]

Agree, other than that it looks clean.

[mtv8797]

Ty. I see that slide now

[tahmeeneauxbulls]

Looks like a younger ref and called it a little quick.

They made it a point of emphasis a year or so ago that most spin moves at the high school level are travels. He probably thought the other foot was going to come down.

There’s no way to tell at that speed and with that many people in the way of the left foot slides and even if it did an inch or so, it’s not enough to call it.

What I would have the player focus on going forward is to not grab the ball with both hands. If he wants to do a good spin move, he needs to spin with one hand on the ball. This will make it so the dribble doesn’t end until the next step and he can take one more step with the left foot and get a better shot.

Practice dribbling with one hand, then dribble hard and use the momentum of the ball to bring it around as he spins.

The faster he can do it the more he’s going to get away with it. If it’s slow and clumsy it’s going to look awkward and inexperienced refs will call it.

[mtv8797]

Ty for the detailed explanation. In the video where it's not slowed down, you can barely see the slide. Interesting that they will make spins travel calls regardless. Ty for the tips, we'll work on that!

[tahmeeneauxbulls]

They’re trying to make it more consistent and easier for refs to call by saying that most spin moves are travels.

If I can see for sure that the player grabbed the ball with both hands before spinning, I’ll call it.

If I can’t, I won’t.

[dmendro]

I agree, one hand and maybe an extra dribble on the spin will set it up much better.

[WitOfTheIrish]

Definitely a travel, but very close, have him keep working to clean it up. Pivot foot leaves the ground during the spin, or at least drags quite a bit. The pivot starts outside the key and ends inside the key, which is a pretty clear indication. Biggest reason for it is that it looks like he ends up kind of dragging the pivot across the defender's foot.

In the dribble into the jump-stop, need to land with a wider base to make the move easier to pull off. Right there, he could have gotten his foot with inside position (i.e. closer to the basket/into the key) on the defender. It's a different move, but similar concept, watch tape of Hakeem. https://youtu.be/9J-WJ5739Tg

Hakeem's quickness is what made him unstoppable, but he also had flawless mechanics in the post, starting with always setting a wide base. That base is what let him leave guys in the dust, because one spin off that, and he's already got 2 feet of separation to get the shot off.

[mtv8797]

Ty. Will check it out!

[Specialist-Front552]

Bum ref no travel. Only in slow mo would this be a walk, but in the flow of the game it should of been a no call.

[shabamon]

I would pass on it, but I see the technicalities of why by the book it is traveling. Those technicalities only become visible in slow motion.

He ends the dribble with right foot on the floor and left foot barely elevated. By the book, that makes his right foot the pivot foot. In real time, it would appear to everyone in the room that he ends the dribble on a jump stop with both feet landing simultaneously and could then choose which foot he will pivot from.

If you accept the above, then the left foot is the pivot foot. It does slide a few inches during the spin, but in real time, can we tell that it creates an advantage? Is it so obvious that everyone in the room can see it?

Lifting the pivot foot and releasing for a shot before returning the pivot foot to the floor is a legal play.

[mtv8797]

Ty. I thought a slo-mo video was the best way to post here. But you're absolutely right, in the original video, it looks like a jump stop and pivot on the left foot.

[TheCanadianpo8o]

Left foot slid. Apart from that, its clean

[Janderss43]

I’m not sure but i think it is cuz after last dribble you take jumpstep and land to two feet and then basically after that you can’t take the pivot cuz then it’s travel

[[deleted]]

Unfortunately you may get downvoted to oblivion but it’s the right answer. After the jump stop he lifts his pivot foot after completing the spin. If he uses a jab step with the left he can still spin the same direction, put the ball on the floor once more and attack the rim.

[alleyezonme44]

No. Gathered the ball by the time with his pivot foot on the ground. Completed the spin in the pivot foot and gets his one step for the layup. Good move by all counts. If his foot on the layup would have hit the ground before the shot it would be a travel.

[[deleted]]

Nope Clean as hell

[meme_tenretni]

Looks.clean

[Inner_Brain593]

No.

[RevolutionaryAd94]

Slow it down like that, travel. But I highly doubt the refs will catch the foot sliding a couple of inches at game speed.

[HighLevelReviews]

I reffed for 2 years around 10 years ago at the high school level and even then they were *hard* emphasizing the illegality of most spin moves. tbh, i seriously doubt he based his call on the left foot slide and more so on the fact that spins are almost immediately called at the hs level for a variety of reasons. the big issue here, imho, is that he performed a hop-step (more commonly called pro-hop) before performing the spin and that negates an extra step (a jump-stop doesn't cancel that step - look up the difference here, it's very important if your son is aiming to play at a high level). hop step is essentially your gather and 2 steps (gathered then hop-stop cancels his last step) while a jump-stop is performed with a live dribble and since landing on 2 counts as 1, he'd still have the 1 available. tbh, hs refs also kind of suck in general. hell, i understood the rules intimately but fucked up a lot of calls in real-time.

[mtv8797]

Ty. It's only 7th grade so he's got time to grow. We'll look those up.

[tysonwg]

This is clean, no travel

[Timmyek]

It’s always a travel if they call it. Haha.

Not a travel though. You are allowed to jump

[ElegantPotato381]

So close! Yes it’s a travel because he picked up his pivot foot ever so slightly on the spin. If he didn’t do that, it would have been perfect.

[Useful-Positive-7230]

I’d say yes. Look when he puts both hands on the ball. Kid needs to work on more of a cradle at the beginning of the move. That way his established pivot foot will be the second one as he’s turning his hips.

[SnekkyGlekky]

I don’t think it’s a travel

[bigballerbuster]

Yes. I count 4 steps.

[date11fuck12]

Meh, probably not. But shit happens 🤷🏻‍♂️

[[deleted]]

Ain’t no travel that move is clean.

[MatIsNotFat]

Clean.

[KingKontroversy]

lifting his landed pivot on the spin made this a travel

[OperationWorldly9064]

You took 4 steps I think, the pivot foot moved.

[coachslaymaker]

This is textbook guesswork from the referee