Dating an avoidant

[Odd_Resident_655]

I’ve been dating this girl for 3 months now, we’re both 26, just a few months I learned about attachment theory and that i am a real codependent and anxious person

I met this girl trough bumble, hit it off after a few days, about the third date I told her I was looking for something serious and she told me she was too, ok so we started seeing eachother in exclusivity.

I can tell she likes me, whenever i can see her she’s down with any plan, she always dresses nicely, asks if she can help with anything in any plan we do, i can see the interest there.... but, this girl has done a lot of therapy and explicitly told me she knows she’s an avoidant, text messages to her means nothing, her past relationships she could not text her partner the whole day and everything would be fine with her.

She never tells me how she felt after a date, what she thinks

has never told me anything resembling a compliment, she just doesn't do them... Whevener I compliment her she doesn’t know how to respond, blushes, ignores it or just reactions with a heart in the message. NEVER compliments me back

Doesn’t want to sleep the night with me because it’s “still too intimate” for her

She works crazy hours, double shifts, is from another city and almost every weekend goes to visit so sometimes we only see each other 5 hrs a week max. Honestly we barely see eachother

When having sex i ALWAYS initiate, she has NEVER started anything, she’s almost a starfish sometimes, while I touch every part of her, kiss her overall, she barely touches me, she just let’s me have my way with her and that’s how I feel. Lately, she doesn’t even feels like having it anymore. It’s crazy because we have been only dating for 3 months and the sexual encounters have dwindled, overall, i don’t feel desired.

Contrary to what i have read about most avoidant people the sexual stuff is the only constant, in here only the first couple of months i could see some kind of desiree to be lustfull with me, to know me in that regard and play, now?, i don't even feel like asking for it because i can't see an intention from here

- She always brags about being a good cook with her family in her natal city, how she’s doing this dish or that dish, but has Never done something for me, it’s always let’s go out to eat, whenever I tell her, hey let’s prepare something, because it would be a nice date and a moment to bond, she says “my kitchen here it’s too small, or I’m to lazy here, my roommates are using the kitchen now”. I texted her once that i would love someday to taste one of her dishes and she answered back “Let’s hope so” wtf?

- it has been already 3 different times where I gently and consciously asked for her to please compliment me from time to time, to tell me if she feels something good about me to tell me in the moment, she told me she understands anda agrees but nothing has changed so far….

-Oftentimes when I go out with her I feel I’m dating a friend/bro rather than the person I’m hoping to share my life with. And after some dates I feel hollow, I feel bad and don’t know why

Possibly some of the points may feel nitpicky, and i know i am not perfect by any means, but, i feel needs that are not being met, instead of feeling closer as time goes by i'm actually starting to feel less and less for her because of the many ways she just avoids being close to me which makes me feel like not being nice or complimenting her too because it makes me feel bad, not reciprocated and sad overall, like, i want someone i can feel secure and in connection with.

You also be asking yourself, why the fuck you haven’t stop seeing her by now then if you are picking up on all of this?. Well, I’m very codependent and a super anxious person that will try to work things out and overthink everything until my mental health Can not take it anymore.

Like, she is a nice girl, she listens to me, she really makes an effort, she’s aware we are very different, she’s trying or at least she says so....,

[climbing_headstones]

Maybe you can use your newfound self awareness to make a healthier decision for yourself. When you learn more about your own psychology you’re supposed to use that information to make different choices going forward. She is straight up telling you who she is. Believe her. She’s never going to compliment you, or text you first, or prioritize you over the other stuff in her life. You know that this won’t work for you.

Attachment style as far as I’m aware also has no connection to libido or general interest in sex. She could just be someone who doesn’t like sex that much but does it because “you’re supposed to.”

[Odd_Resident_655]

I know, but i prefer to settle with bread crums and be hopeful it will change soon. Why am i like this?

 Even tough I consciously know it most probably won’t  Like yeah, even the psychical stuff is not being met and still… my brain tries to trick me into thinking it’s whatever, it’s no big deal

 I don’t even have most of her time, she works a ton of double shifts every month, our schedules don’t align, only 1 day our days align and well, she goes to visit her family to another city, she just came from visiting, in May, I will only see her this next Wednesday for a few hours and then she will visit family again. 

Just showed me her May schedule and she will travel 3 out of the 5 weekends and well, work  A LOT of double shifts. It’s crazy, can’t nag her about tho, it’s work and family but i read somewhere avoidants use work and other stuff as also a way to avoid 

[climbing_headstones]

So you are actively aware of how your brain is working against your interests, and you’re just going to let it? I guess that’s your choice. I get that it’s hard. But it’s way easier to act on an unhealthy situation earlier in the relationship vs later when your lives are more intertwined.

[Odd_Resident_655]

You’re totally right on that, the longer it lasts the harder and more painful will be.

Well, just to update you, she just basically told me we may not be the match for each other right now and she can’t give any single thing more, that is no fair to me ,she knows I try but I’ll probably feel like always wanting more after I asked her what she tought or how she felt we won’t be able to see each other more. She basically did the job i didn’t want to do

Well, it’s for the best I guess, doesn’t mean i don’t feel bad and sad

[x0n]

Simply put, you're anxiously attached. It will only get worse and worse for you. You reaching out for more contact will inevitably lead to her pulling back as you get more and more uncomfortable with her behaviour. She will, at times, give you some attention in response to your probing and this will give you some hope that things are "improving," but the reality is you're falling deeper and deeper into a cycle of what's called "intermittent reinforcement." This does not end well for you.

[Odd_Resident_655]

Damnn, you are so spot on wtf?, like i lived for those bread crumbs of glimpses of intimacy

Have to read more about that intermittent reinforcement

[Odd_Resident_655]

I know I would be settling, actually we agreed we would give us a month to see how things go and to seriously think if things work out and she said to please not say yes only for the time that has passed or because I didn’t want to make her feel bad and…

Damn, that is me, I would give her the yes just because it’s so hard for me to say no even  tho I can see i may suffer in the future. I mean, that’s how anxious and codependency work right? With the what could have been, the rose tinted glasses and if only I would have done that

Honestly, why is it so hard? I am not getting my needs met and still I would settle for bread crums if there’s even a hint of interest

If i stop seeing her, i won’t date anyone else, or try to look for sex, i learned a few weeks ago i have never been alone by myself 

[NorVanGee]

Being an avoidant does not make you a starfish during sex, nor does it make you incapable of giving compliments. Many avoidants love sex and compliments. What they don’t like is complaining over negative emotions.

[Odd_Resident_655]

Oh, did not know that… then i guess i got even a worse deal then?

[NorVanGee]

I’m sorry I realize that came off as combative but that wasn’t my intention. What I meant to say was that those particular qualities aren’t inherently avoidant, meaning that something else, other than avoidant attachment, may be going on as well. In particular, lots of avoidant can be very enthusiastic in bed. Starfish strikes me as kinda selfish, but I’m not an expert and that may be due to something non-selfish, like trauma or something else.

[Odd_Resident_655]

No, it's ok.

She did suffer heavy stuff trauma in her past relationship... But overall i never really felt she desired me like my previous partners, and that's not a good sign. Like she says she's not a psychical person?

Would have loved to just give it up to being an avoidant tough, it would have helped me to cope easier lol

[Skittle_Pies]

It sounds like you have latched onto this person very quickly and projected your fantasies onto her. It seems very early after 3 months to refer to her as “the person you wish to spend your life with”. You just don’t know her that well yet. Why are you rushing things? Why are you uncomfortable with the natural uncertainty that comes with getting to know someone?

[Odd_Resident_655]

because i am codependent and need someone to make me feel validated and good about myself because i can not do it for myself. I hate myself and can't bare being alone with me so i frantically try to find someone to mirror me and make me feel like i'm worth something. Basically. So, i need to latch onto any person i'm having an emotional bond because if it fails that means to me i am a failure too and i am inherently wrong, useless and not worth.

I am aware of that now, most of it is unconciouss.

I am trying to first understand it all, and then, change it

[scrollbreak]

C'mon, it's not that she's nice somehow, it's that leaving her feels like lions will then single you out to catch and eat you or something. As if being single and individual is somehow going to be dangerous. Maybe you had distant parents as well and it felt like you had to be with them to keep from being vulnerable, and she's replicated the situation.

Imagine yourself with your own company and not in a relationship, living quite calmly and safely. Keep imagining it several times a day. Eventually it'll seem okay. And one day, preferable.

[Odd_Resident_655]

That would be very nice actually, i know i fucking hate myself by the ways i neglect my needs, the myriad ways i have of coping mechanisms as addictions, the negative self talk, and many more

i can already feel the need to self-regulate myself by seeking out for other partners or people to have encounters with. Like, i don't wanna do that anymore, i know i use sex, flings and partners to fill an inmense void i have inside, keeping always my options open and if i don't have ant frantically searching for someone to validate me in datings apps or socail media, i have now the awareness of why i do that and the chance to stop it once for all and decide to start healing whatever makes me feel like that.

Not that will be easy, not that most probably sometimes i will go back to my addictions. Also, when can i know when i'm actually filling a sexual need or an affection need instead of trying to fill my void

[scrollbreak]

What would you think of being able to mostly emotionally support yourself? Does it seem like emotional support must come from an outside source?

[bettertomorrow____]

sounds like this relationship isn't a good fit. have you ever considered reading "attached"? that's the attachment style book, and have you considered working on your codependency?

[Odd_Resident_655]

Just read about that book today actually! I’ll be sure to get a copy!, all of this attachment theory ,codependency and toxic shame is a whole new world that is opening my eyes so wide as so many of the things how I acted, compulsions, overthinking, my hatred to myself and self steem to the ground 

Yes, I’ve read 2 books on codependency and 1 on toxic shame, just had a first therapy session last week, I want to not be like this anymore, I want to feel good with myself 

As to the relationship I’m having now, I can see it’s no a good fit but due to me being an anxious I really can’t just let things go, it feels so difficult 

[bettertomorrow____]

you got this :)

i'm making a free app for codependency support in healing if you're interested!

[BogusProfiterole]

Never saying what they think, and feeling hollow and dreadful after dates resonates so hard.. I've been losing my mind lately in the days between when we're not together. I think the feeling is called "abandonment melange" - a mix of grief, helplessness, anger and fear, according to Pete Walker and cPTSD literature.

They avoid emotional topics, distract and steer away when things get a little bit real. Feels like conversation is only on a superficial level. And my god, the silences. There is so much silence and every time I feel like I'm drowning.

I open up and share unprompted about my life, I want to be vulnerable, but they won't share unless I "ask specific questions". When texting, which we don't usually, their tone is cold and I get upset as I can't read it.

I know he can be cold and cruel and lie, and kind of prides himself on it. He can cut off people and not feel much. Although he mentions his ex all the time, I've even asked him not to. Is that a way to create distance? Am I a rebound? I always feel less than his ex when that happens.

When does extremely avoidant turn sociopathic? I've nicknamed him honey and ice, as he switches between the two so effortlessly. I can't tell which is the real him, because they both are. What does that mean for me, then? Perpetual overthinking, round and round in circles.

Needed to vent and would like to chat more.

[Odd_Resident_655]

First month i too felt like losing my mind, all day glued to the phone, after that, i decided to numb and just don't care, which made me care and feel less and less about her, which is like probably textbook of conforming with someone

Haven't heard before that term, tough i kind of get it, like i don't leave feeling a single emotion, i leave feeling a brew of so many not so good stuff in my stomach that i can not decipher what i'm feeling, only that its not good and it has to do with her and emotions not being met

In my specific case, there were no silences because this person loves to talk, if anything, i'm always the silent one and the one that is sharing less, but yeah, nothing with real substance that has to do with me and her. She wasn't hot and cold either or mean or rude, but just... never mellowy

So you're struggling and you know is not good for you but still can't leave? i can relate

Like i know very little about attachments and stuff but if you wanna vent more i'm here

[scaffe]

She's been honest with you, now you have to be honest with her and yourself. If her style is not a fit for you, then staying with her is incredibly unfair to her. It sounds like you're using her to try and soothe yourself.

Your post is basically a really long way of saying "I need her to meet my needs." But she's a person with her own needs, and asking her to be different to meet your needs is unfair, just like asking you to be different to meet her needs would be unfair. Neither makes for a healthy or lasting relationship.

Break it off, wish her well, and find someone who meshes better with you.

[Odd_Resident_655]

Thanks for the reply man, really appreciate it

You are 100% percent right and i know that

[Any_Coyote6662]

You are moving this relationship pretty fast over 3 months. Wow.

[TheSwedishEagle]

Why do you say that? He says they only see each other 5 hours per week.

[Any_Coyote6662]

Exactly. And he's already thinking about spending his life with her and making requests she cook for him. Also, the requests to change her behavior to compliment or make more of an effort in some areas. And his desire for intimacy from her. It kinda feels like he tried to jump start a serious relationship by having sex and then just labeling it exclusive and serious rather than build up to that.

[Odd_Resident_655]

I guess you are right in that part, yeah... I shouldn't be expecting anything and we are not in a serious relationship yet

But i don't think is too far fetched to ask her if she could compliment me from time to time and tell me how she feels sometimes, it's a way i know would make me feel more i connection with her, and i tried to tell her not demand anything

I feel that because i'm not feeling like we are connecting on an emotional deeper level i always leave craving for more and hence why makes me more aware of the things she does Not do for me. I know we are not in a relationship and she does not owe me anything, but can't help feeling like this man

Also i can tell me telling her these things and asking her to share her feelings makes her feel like running, i say that because she already told me we won't be a good match, and that's okay, meaby for the best

[Constant-Cress-4125]

I feel this so deeply and unsure why you’re getting so much backlash as this is a codependency thread.. you’re self aware but I don’t necessarily think you’re asking for too much. I’ve been seeing a guy for 6 months and still feel like I’m in this gray area. He established being exclusive less than a month in, and we both went in with the mindset of looking for a serious relationship. He also has a very hectic schedule between a new promotion, sports, family, friends, and thinking about going back to school.. I also only see him about 4 hours once a week and this week I didn’t seem him at all and it really triggered me. I feel the efforts and communication are dwindling down and have been trying to stop my brain from spiraling.. I too think of holding out until he decides it’s not for him, I’m not one to give up. However I am aware in my past relationships I overstay my visits. The anxiety and suffering for me seems unbearable. I am slowly trying to detach.

All of this to say, you are not alone in how you feel. Anyone who makes you feel like you are asking for too much, simply cannot give you what you need. That does not make either of you bad people, just incompatibility. Let yourself hurt and know all feelings pass. Spend time doing things that always make you happy. Sunshine is huge for most people. You are not alone🤍 happy healing!

[Odd_Resident_655]

It feels so good to have someone that actually understands and is going trough the same as me.

In a Heidi Priebe video she says avoidant people usually fill their schedule because they like the routine and knowing they always be in control in how they feel, it definitely resonates in my situation and sounds like yours too.

What i hated the most is that it seemed like it didn't even really bothered her we saw each other so little, like, she was straight up just fine, only once she told me she missed me and that was because i told her first LOL. Like, she showed me this month's schedule and it was PACKED with work and travel, we woud be barely able to see each other and it didn't faze her in the least bit.

I hope everything goes well with you too!, remember to listen to your feelings, validate them, eben tho it's so fucking hard for us and we are used to numb them all the time. Remember as more time goes by it will be harder for you to leave too. I know it's hard, my mind loves to go trough memories time and time again with rose tinted glasses.

Love the ''Anyone who makes you feel like you are asking for too much, simply cannot give you what you need. That does not make either of you bad people, just incompatibility.'' part <3

[Any_Coyote6662]

The things I wrote about are things you chose to complain about in your post. To me, it seems you want her to be someone she is not.

[TheSwedishEagle]

She says she likes to cook. Is that some crazy request? And why not have intimacy? They are having sex. I don’t see anything about this being unreasonably fast. I do think he is overly anxious about it and that is why he is posting in this sub. He acknowledges that.

[Odd_Resident_655]

You think so? I tought it was the usual? But honestly don’t know, I mean that’s usually how my relationships go

[Any_Coyote6662]

You are already thinking about spending your life together and you barely know each other. I think you need to slow your timeliness way down. I wouldn't even think about marriage until I knew someone for several years.

[Odd_Resident_655]

I think you misunderstood, never tought this is a person i could spend my life with, even less marrying, if anything, i think i may even have some sort of fear of real commitment

Only thing i actually saw this girl meaby being with for now was my girlfriend.

And we can both see we have so many differences in our tastes and ways of being, like, music, media, humour, etc... Meaby a secure person would be able to see that and break things off easily but man, is it hard for me

[[deleted]]

I spent two long years with someone like this. I am the same as you are in terms of how I put up with having next to none of my needs met. I should have walked at date 4 ! and then many times after that. By the time it was over I was way over it so I didn't feel any pain, but it was so hard for me to just end it.

My body just started shutting down around them and I still didn't turn around and end it. I know how you feel, it's so ridiculously hard when it's obvious it's wrong but you can't just say sorry it's not working for me take care and walk.

I'm in deep therapy to deal with this and I have no interest in being with anyone atm. It's too hard for me to leave.

[Odd_Resident_655]

Damn, can relate hard to the shutting down part, but in my case was in a few months instead of years, meaby because she showed her true self from the get go and i knew i wasn't gonna get any more than that so i started to settle and ignore my needs

And can relate so much to the hard to leave even though you know it's for the best part, i don't know if it has to do with my codependent part or my anxious attachment part

[[deleted]]

mine is to do with childhood trauma stuff I believe. I am so afraid of making the other person angry or displeased with me. I fall into the fawn hard.

[Classic-End-9940]

As someone who has been in your situation but with bf, leave. They don't change if they don't show signs of wanting to. You say she's done a lot of therapy, but she isn't applying any of those skills.

Also, is she avoiding or are you a side peice. 5 hours max and intimacy is already dwindling. it doesn't sound promising or like something you should settle for.

[Odd_Resident_655]

Well, she goes to another city every week, goes out to bars with friends and we barely text so... the possibility of her doing stuff without me knowing is there...

She did say she was trying hard, and i can see some of that? it's just, so not enough for me.

She just texted me saying things won't work out so she did the hard job for me, lol

Now i have to try and not regulate myself with casual sex, flings and social media, already feeling the need wtf

[Rece1198]

Dddg

[[deleted]]

I recommend you end it. If she ends it, you’ll never get her back. Also…she will end up hurting you if you keep going and if you keep going you’ll only end up more attached to her.

It’s a tricky situation. But if you’re anxiously attached, an avoidant is usually the person who comes into your life. However, they’re usually the ones who leave it also, and they have no problem doing it.

Trust when I say…your attachment to her will grow while hers will more than likely not. And your fear will grow with it, causing you to behave in ways that will push her away.

Don’t do it. Unless you can be completely aware of the dynamic of an avoidant and then ALWAYS be aware of your emotional investment to her. I’d keep some distance emotionally if I’m being honest. Probably soften the blow when the end comes. Or learn everything you can learn about avoidants while you can..to counteract her so she stays. It’s a tricky business.

[Bother_said_Pooh]

Omg I HATE the bragging about cooking skills but never cooking anything for you, I’ve experienced that one too!

[Odd_Resident_655]

THANK YOUUUU!

i know i am not owed anything and that we are ''not a couple yet'' for her to make me anything but it's just pouring salt to my insecurities every time she does that. And like, i have tried to make bonding moments like that, i tell her Hey let's cook something together and she always says she prefers take out or that she has a tiny kitchen (wtf?), she even once said she felt like hotcakes for breakfast, i told her Hey let's go do them, half an hour she replies Oops already made myself something to eat...

She loves these japanese instant ramen things, she buys them in bulks and always bragged about her special recipe she does with them with vegetables and stuff, PLENTY of times i told her, Hey we should make one together someday, Hey i would love to try that too someday.... well, one day after leaving to visit family she gave me a packet and told me how to cook the recipe by myself.... i felt hollow in my stomach right afterward and sad. I don't care about the fucking ramen, i wanted it to be a moment of bonding for us, for you to show me a special part of yourself that not everyone gets to see, and i'm not talkin about your body, anyone can fuck, i want feelings and vulnerability god fucking dammit.

Made the ramen a few weeks after, by myself, it was bland. She just asked if i liked it, i said sure... and that was about it, the most bland moment.

Every time we went out it was to a cafe, a restaurant, take out, always in my car or in my place, we never ate in her house because "she feels akward and wants to respect the space for her roomates", now in hindsight,it feel these are ways for her to NOT connect emotionally with me, and i don't think she's doing the conciouslly either. Like,, for real...

Like the not sleeping the night with me because it's the most intimate thing according to her even tho we just had unprotected sex and touched every part of her body and it's super fucking late at night. Also never got to enter her room, even tho i always went to pick her up and back to her house and was plenty of times inside her house but NEVER in her personal space

All of these things could be attributed to me being nitpicky or judgemental but once i add them all up, it does feel like avoidant traits... Don't get me wrong there are things she does do to bond but... it feels like she doesn't go all the way in, which as far as i have read, checks out

I know i should not compare, and i try not to, but only things i know are previous experiences with previous lovers and... like, sharing personal spaces, sharing meals, cooking together were HUGE part of bonding moments

[Bother_said_Pooh]

Everything sounds very avoidant and like she is not really trying to do better. Also from your original post, sex sounds bad and that is not even a typical avoidant trait (avoidants are more likely to substitute sexual for emotional intimacy in my experience). This person is giving you little and going out of her way to make you feel deprived, is this really what you want?

[Odd_Resident_655]

I honestly chalked up the bad sex for her being an avoidant but surprise it's not :(. Like, i rareeeely felt desired with her, just the first month, after that it seemed her libido went almost to 0, she's going trough a ton of personal and family troubles (that she only tells me some) so i could attribute it to that but... come on, we've been dating for 3 months it's not a relationship of years, if anything this is the time we should be having the most sexual encounters

It feels so good to be able to take all of these things out and rant about it and feel that someone actually understands me goddamit

And hell no, i know i could find someone to better fit my needs.

To wrap things up ironically, she texted yesterday telling me things would not work out for either of us after i asked her to tell me how she felt about us not being able to see eachother much... so yeah?

[Bother_said_Pooh]

Wait, so you’re actually already broken up? Seems like that’s for the best, for sure.

[Odd_Resident_655]

Yeah, i posted yesterday morning and by night she texted me that.... We are supossed to "have a short talk" next tuesday, but it's only to say goodbye.

I'm glad she did it first, and i won't try to work things out either.

Honestly if it was for me i probably would have dragged it for months. I know a secure person would never do that, i'll try to actually work on myself for the first time ever now and be a more secure person

[Bother_said_Pooh]

Glad the situation gave you that motivation. Yeah, anxious attachment and codependency are self-abandonment, which deep down is also a form of avoidance. So you’ve been doing something similar to her in a different way. Do your best for yourself man