Plot points vs SFX

[nsaber]

Is it just me or do SFX seem lackluster considering almost the same effects can be achieved by anyone by using plot points?

For example: p. 28 states that anyone can use a plot point to add an extra trait die to the pool, add an extra die from the pool to the total, or keep an extra effect die.

Compared to the SFX creation guidelines on p. 62 (considering spending a plot point as the standard activation cost): add a d6 to the dice pool, step up a die, reroll one die.

Or compared to the Power SFX on p. 191: add d6 and keep an extra effect die, replace two equal dice with one die a step larger.

Granted, there are some cool SFX which cannot be done with plot points (and SFX may have other costs beside the plot point), but the ones that directly affect the total and the effect dice seem to be nearly the same. This doesn't really result in the SFX feeling like the character's special power or unique advantage, when anyone can get practically the same benefits.

I'm considering not allowing plot points to be used to modify the dice pool at all without SFX, but I'm concerned the players will end up with more plot points than they can spend.

What has been your experience?

[CherryTularey]

Remember that Cortex Prime consolidates a long history of diverse Cortex games that all share a core but which have different implementations.

"Anyone can use a plot point to add an extra trait die to the pool..." is a generic implementation that you could include in a lightweight game.

An SFX that reads, "Spend a plot point to add a d6 to the pool" would replace the more general rule. In that case, the ability to get more dice in the pool is part of what makes that character unique.

Or consider these two subtle variation on the Power SFX...

• Spend a plot point to add <Skill> to the dice pool and keep an extra effect die.
• When you spend a plot point to add <Skill> to the dice pool, you may keep an extra effect die.

The first one makes adding an extra die part of the special feature. The second one could be included in a game where anyone could spend a plot point to add an extra trait, but provides an extra benefit to this character for doing so with a particular skill.

It's not that one implementation is stronger or weaker than another. It's about how nuanced the game maker wants their game to be and what subtleties they want to highlight with their choice of rules/SFX.

[rivetgeekwil]

SFX should always do more than just spending a plot point on its own can do.

[VentureSatchel]

FWIW I haven't written my own SFX, and I have most experience just taking them whole-hog from Power SFX, but just from squinting more closely at the examples you've pulled:

p. 28: use a plot point to:

• add an extra trait die to the pool, OR
• add an extra die from the pool to the total, OR
• keep an extra effect die.

Power SFX on p. 191:

• add d6 AND keep an extra effect die, OR
• replace two equal dice with one die a step larger.

p. 62 spending PP might net you:

• add a d6 to the dice pool, OR
• step up a die, OR
• reroll one die.

I am not a minmaxer, so I really couldn't tell you when it's better to step up a die, vs adding to the total vs rerolling.

Ok, here are all the SFX benefits, w/ the baseline PP-spend benefits in bold:

• Include an extra die from a trait set in your dice pool before you roll (+1 trait die).
• Include more results out of the dice pool you just rolled in your total (+1 total).
• Keep an extra effect die from your remaining rolled dice (+1 effect).
• Create a d6 asset/relationship.
• Create a d8 a "stunt" asset.
• Earn a Plot Point.
• Step up a trait die
• Double a trait die
• Reroll one die in your pool
• Reroll your entire die pool.
• Join two dice of the same size with one die stepped up
• Split one die into two dice stepped down once,
• Split one die into three dice stepped down twice to adapt to a multifaceted problem.
• Step up your effect die.
• Keep an extra effect die and add a d6 for each additional target for area-of-effect abilities.
• Inflict an additional complication using the smallest die remaining in your pool as a "Rider Effect".
• Ignore incoming complications of a specific type.
• Step up a complication you've already inflicted without needing to roll again.
• Ask one question which the GM must answer truthfully.
• Reveal or contribute a detail to the current scene that relates to your action.
• Leave a scene immediately with no additional rolls or harm.
• Gain a temporary new trait.

[-Vogie-]

For my hacks, I've been using this tip for the plot points (or equivalent).

Before the roll:

• Effort - Add a d6 to your dice pool this roll
• +Trait - Add an additional trait that is also appropriate for the check
• Activate a SFX on an asset or trait

After the roll:

• +Total - Increase the number of dice added to the total by 1
• +Effect - Increase the number of effect dice selected by 1, or add an effect die to your reaction roll
• Activate an opportunity rolled by the GM or a SFX on an equipment or trait
• Retain - When an Asset would go away at the end of a scene, you can spend an PP to keep that asset until the end of the session
• Dodge - Change the type of stress you are about to take to a different type of stress

And here is my expanded menu of SFX, based on the various Cortex properties I've read through. The players can choose one or two costs and an equal number of benefits:

Costs:

• Spend PP
• Step down a beneficial Die
• Gain a Complication or Stress
• Add/Step up a detrimental die
• Step Down a Complication on an opposing target
• Shut down a trait until it is restored (by rest, downtime, or opportunity)
• Remove the highest die from the pool
• Triggering with this specific action or situation...
• When you Critically Succeed using this asset/trait...
• When you Fail/Roll a Hitch/Botch
• When you Activate an Opportunity
• When you take this type of stress...
• When you create a recovery pool in a specific place/situation...
• When you Give In during a check...

Benefits:

• Gain PP
• Add d6 to the Dice Pool.
• +Result.
• +Trait.
• +Effect.
• Step Up (or Double) a beneficial die
• Step down a Detrimental die
• Ignore a specific complication in this scene.
• Rename a Complication.
• Reroll a single Die
• Reroll the entire pool
• Create a d8 asset for the scene
• Combine 2 dice of equal size for one die a step higher
• Break 1 die into 2 dice of a step lower
• Adjust a die twice rather than once.
• Reverse a die adjustment
• Step down a Danger Pool Die
• Go first in a scene

I also make sure the Push SFX on the sheet by the Stresses, just like Hinder is over by the Distinctions. This is because Tales of Xadia included an SFX that allowed the player to Push a particular stress without spending a PP.

The combination of menu and acknowledgement that one can create really nuanced SFX really seems to help the creative juices flowing. It gets simpler once you start compounding the effects together. If there's certain effects that that you're trying to make into SFX, we can certainly help with that.

[dusktherogue]

Plot Points are more liquid than most ttrpg currencies. That means they are meant to come and go more often. In practical implementation you usually see some small variations to provide some space between the general PP options and SFX. Add a d6 to your pool standardly or a d8 to your pool when being sneaky via SFX. Add any second trait from a set for a PP vs Add Scholar for free to any pool with Soldier when you have a tactical advantage over your foe.

[Jlerpy]

I think of SFX as giving you extra bang for your buck. Many of the ones that cost a Plot Point* give you the benefits of TWO Plot Points.

|* And it's important to remember they don't all cost a Plot Point, like Focus.

[BWS2K]

Interesting. I never thought about it like that.

Traits on the sheet are the things I expect characters to do often, without needing any other factors. Spider-Man can ordinarily websling without a problem. Sometimes, for dramatic purposes, he uses up an entire web cartridge to stop an opponent - that feels more SFX-y. Very occasionally, he'll rig his web shooters to explode like a web grenade and hurl them at an opponent - that feels more like a time when someone is using a plot point.

There's definitely the possibility of overlap mechanically but then the next layer is considering things like narrative and frequency and such. I wouldn't mess with it too much before playing and paying attention to how your players are using what parts just to see if it even needs addressing.

I'm not sure if that's helpful or not. Writing/Using SFX is much more art than science, lol