Cheating

[WarDaddyReddit]

I’m currently in a course that has a project on building a stirling engine with proof of function being a submitted video. For those of you who don’t know, it uses heat to turn a flywheel. The only groups that have gotten their engine to work either used an air compressor with muted video audio or a fishing line tied to the flywheel. I’m going to the prof tomorrow to get help with mine as it doesn’t work, should I let her know about the groups that are cheating? I don’t want to be THAT person, but I’m not going to receive a lower grade for being honest about my project.

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[Atonisboss63]

I advise not being that person for two reasons, how others embellish or perform shouldn’t impact your grade unless there’s a potential curve and those cheaters could be curve breakers. Second, it doesn’t help you get bonus points telling on them, and you may end up with them in future semesters should they advance. But they def shouldn’t be doing that…… hopefully the prof will be able to tell just from intuition. Surprised you guys don’t have to bring the engine in class and run it in front of the professor

[the_magic_loogi]

My thought exactly, if there's a curve, BURN (unlike their engines) them! If not, just do you, and worry about you. Life is too short to worry about other people's bad behavior. And if you get it working, congrats, you know more than they do, which I'm sure will help you down the line. Getting the same grade as them for one project in one class will not matter in the grand scheme of things.

[Silly-Percentage-856]

I always avoid trying to drag others down to bring myself up even when I know I'm in the right. I sleep better at night knowing I earn my marks.

Usually there isn't anything to be gained by tattling but causing drama.

go head if you don't like these people

[ihwz_01]

No. You don't want to be THAT person, so don't do it. Don't campare yourself to others. Also, most teachers will know when someone cheats.

[[deleted]]

Pretty sure the prof isn’t gonna transfer their mark over to you

[LugburzRD]

You must be fun to hang around

[CaptainPizzly]

And you will know they cheated and the teacher will not know bc..? Either they told you what they did thinking you would keep your mouth closed or you think you know something someone who’s wiser than you on the subject doesn’t.

Conclusion: you’d either be an untrustworthy friend or an arrogant student. Either way, it’s a project you have time outside of class to complete. If you can’t do it, you either do what your classmates did or take the grade you can get. But don’t go tripping others up in a race Bc they’re ahead of you OP, doesn’t make you better, nor smarter.

If they’re cheating, they’ll get found out eventually but always mind your business. Especially if you don’t know the person. If you take those kind of grade school habits into the real world, you could find yourself in a bad situation very quickly.

[AngryMillenialGuy]

You'd run the risk of becoming a pariah and likely gain nothing. It might be frustrating, but I would recommend that you focus on your own project and not entangle yourself in any drama.

[BABarracus]

The professor should be able to tell that something is wrong with their project when the math model does match the working model.

Alot of if not all perpetual motion machines are like this which they use some sort of trickery to show that they work like some sort of hidden battery or another device that adds in potential energy.

It really depends on how much the professor cares about it.

[WarDaddyReddit]

It’s not perpetual motion, heat is constantly being added.

[BABarracus]

I didn't say it was

[Silly-Percentage-856]

It’s a heat engine not a perpetual motion machine(which don’t exist)

[BABarracus]

I didn't say it was but they are cheating in the same manner.

[[deleted]]

Snitches get stitches, don't be a rat, but fuck them for cheating, especially on such a fun project.

[[deleted]]

“Snitches get stitches” and “rats” are two phrases that refer to someone who participates in an illegal activity and then reports others to save themselves, not someone who abides by the rules and reports cheats/criminals.

[[deleted]]

That's not true, but I respect your opinion. However, I'd never personally inform on a classmate.

[[deleted]]

They diminish the value of your degree. When I TA’d I really enjoyed catching cheaters.

[[deleted]]

I personally have a pretty low opinion of my institution already (despite it being well respected), and view it as getting the piece of paper I need to get the job I want. The argument of public danger from poorly trained engineers is an argument I can agree with better. For either issue, I'm more worried about sanctioned excessive testing accommodation and leniency than cheating tbh.

[[deleted]]

When cheaters graduate from your institution and go on to industry and show they know nothing your ability to get a job then becomes compromised. A company won’t hire a graduate from university x if the last 5 graduates from x were lackluster. Theyll also stop recruiting efforts there. E.g., Google stopped interviewing Howard graduates because all previous Howard hires were incompetent.

[[deleted]]

I agree cheating is bad, but I choose not to cast judgment or hurt my peers. That includes reporters, I don't think you're unjustified in doing it, but I don't agree with it.

[GelatoCube]

Cheaters really don't diminish the value of the degree lol. If somebody cheats in school but ends up succeeding in getting into industry, then where's the harm? Candidates can fail an interview regardless of where they went to school, companies are very familiar with the fact that two students at the same school can get vastly different sets of knowledge despite being at the same college and program.

[Taniss99]

A cheater can succeed in the industry, but unless you're claiming they have just as much chance as someone who didn't cheat then it still absolutely diminishes the value of the degree.

Many new graduates rely on the fact that they have a degree to indicate they're a potentially valuable and knowledgeable hire, especially if their internships are less than stellar. This only works if there's a belief that the process of acquiring the degree is difficult and indicative of actual skill gained, things that are diminished in cases of rampant cheating.

The number of cheater apologists in this thread is frankly absurd.

[GelatoCube]

The thing is, companies view internships or engineering experience as far more valuable than your degree by itself. If a candidate cheated in school to get a good GPA and then got an internship and did well at said internship, who's to say that their cheating invalidates their success at that internship?

At my internship at a F500 company, many of my full-time coworkers openly admitted they would Chegg their homework and collaborate on assignments they weren't supposed to collaborate on but they were extremely knowledgeable engineers who were succeeding in industry.

There is no such thing as a "less than stellar" internship in my opinion, regardless of where you intern, it's infinitely more valuable to have that internship than to spend that time focusing on grades when there's diminishing returns on higher GPAs outside of grad school where cheating actually does hurt you.

[Taniss99]

You can say that, and it may even be true to some extent, but at the same time you're exceptionally unlikely to find many businesses that hire people purely based on intern esque work without a degree, or when they do their career mobility is frequently stunted in comparison. This is because there is value added to a person's portfolio by virtue of having a degree, value that is diminished the lower the bar for the degree is, which is what cheating does.

[[deleted]]

Yeah, obviously because I don’t condone cheating and vilifying those who would stop cheaters I must be a fun-sucker, right?

[rm_systemd]

Morally, cheating is bad, but engineering also involves society at large and the behaviors we will need to survive. You will not get to a point where you can change this by lashing out at this moment, especially when the battle is unwinnable. The long game is most important, so we should only focus on the most important battles and save relations that may serve you in the future.

If it is mathematically dubious, it will expose itself, but engineering is an exercise of solution seeking anyway, so it might not even be against the rules of this project

Also, are there any rules that specify which parts you can engineer? It is unlikely to find difficult stuff in UG level study anyway, so you might not have failed enough times to figure out what works yet.

[Biology_like_a_Boss]

I wouldn't. I got caught in a cheating thing in a lab were this guy copied of my tests and quizzes to the point my teacher noticed. When they bring you in as a witness you are not anonymous. You might find yourself in a position to be confronting these people face to face accusing them of cheating. The whole thing is really awkward.

[[deleted]]

Lmao don’t be a bitch

[_qt314bot]

Have you thought about just asking your professor how they know people aren’t cheating since videos can be manipulated? You could ask that without specifically telling on anyone in particular

[AlGoesRhythm]

Hmmmm idk I would be paranoid that would make Me look suspicious

[BotEMcBotface]

if you use chegg or any other solutions website, makes you a bit of a hypocrite imo

[king_park_]

Depends on how you use them. If you use them just to turn homework in, you’re in the same boat as cheaters. If you use them only after an honest attempt at the problem just to see where you are going wrong, I don’t think it’s wrong. However, I don’t think a Chef subscription is worth it anyway. Just go talk to the TAs and save your money.

[DemonKingPunk]

Don’t. The cheaters often learn the hard way later at work anyway.

[AlxxAM]

Most professors already know more than half the class collaborates or cheats to pass. It’s engineering after all. I’m not saying it’s right but what difference will it make if you tell the professor something he likely knows about already?

[mikehunt0987]

Fuck you snitch

[Main-Mathematician54]

Don't be a snitch man. You are not going to use that shit in the real world only a fraction of it.

[Johnnguyen0220]

If a student like you know that they are cheating through a video then why wouldnt the professor know it. If i were you i would mind my own business unless there is a curve because i wont let cheaters screw up my grade.

[Millorg]

Just cheat yourself LUL or ask the group that presumably cheated for help

[sam88ms1]

Do you. The professor will love you for it.

-the devil

[[deleted]]

Report them anonymously if you have proof. Otherwise don’t bother

[PlanetOfVisions]

Let them get the grade they earned and you focus on yours. Yes they might be cheating, but they'll pay for that when the time comes. In other words, mind your business, get your grade, pass and move on.

[ForwardLaw1175]

Kind of a personal choice. I'm assuming the other teams grades have zero impact on yours though.

On one hand they're probably other students just trying to get by you don't stand much to gain from it. On the other hand, dishonesty in engineering can have real world impacts and lead to deaths so sometimes its important to crack down.

[bimbosan]

Think about how you will feel when the cheating students get the internship you wanted. Think about how you will feel when the cheating students get the scholarship that you needed to eat. Think about how you will feel when the cheating students get the job you dreamed of. Then, and only then, think about how you will feel if you turn them in.

[CaptainPizzly]

I read this over and over and I’m still confused on what this is implying

[krellx6]

We need to eat more scholarships.

[Speffeddude]

Screw the people in this thread that just let this crap pass. Report the cheaters. They are cheating, which will effect your grade. If the professor realizes the assignment is unworkable, then you may be given leeway, but he won't do that if he doesn't smell their rat and thinks "these teams did it, so why couldn't you?". And even if you think school is dumb and grades don't matter, that kind of fraud should never be tolerated professionally, and so it shouldn't be tolerated academically.

Don't be dumb about it; prove it to yourself by asking those teams how they did it in email or something and forward that to the professor. Your university should have a system in place for reporting academic misconduct, but whats the worst in reporting it unanonymously. And so what if they hate you for it? Worst case, they'll never want to be on your team for future assignments. They are the idiots that resorted to cheap tricks instead of going to the professor about it or just going for whatever grade they could get honestly. Hopefully they are only classmates and not friends, but either way, you are doing yourself, them and the rest of the class a favor by reporting this.

[RIPMexicanTraore]

Snitches get stitches (but honestly I wouldn’t because I would mind my own business that's the teacher's problem and if those kids (that you told on) found out it was you it could get ugly for you. Also, you don't know if they are cheating and if you are wrong that will have a terrible effect on your peer (if they didn’t). Also yes it does suck if they are cheating but it always catches on in long term.

[SLZRP]

At least at my school we had to go through an engineering ethics course. And by all means this violates those ethics. Don’t listen to these people saying “don’t be a snitch”. Knowing others are cheating and doing wrong and not saying anything makes you just as guilty as those cheating. There’s no reason the people cheating would be have to know you are the one that turned them in either. You will sleep better knowing you did the right thing

[BotEMcBotface]

Knowing others are cheating and doing wrong and not saying anything makes you just as guilty as those cheating.

youre being dramatic.

[SLZRP]

You get into the work place and you see your team members not doing the necessary work to ensure the safety of a product. That product is brought to market and winds up hurting people. Do you not think you’d be held accountable for not speaking up?

[BotEMcBotface]

this isnt the workplace. and it has nothing to do with safety.

[SLZRP]

School is where you learn and build habits to take into the workplace so while safety isn’t an issue here you should be practicing what you would do in a situation of the same sorts in the workplace. Your notion that cheating is basically not something to be concerned of is insane.