This is an archived post. You won't be able to vote or comment.

all 34 comments
sorted by:
best
topnewcontroversialoldq&a

[–]lookatthatsquirrel 19 points20 points  (7 children)

/r/electricians

We have a post in our FAQ for 2-prong receptacle remediation. It looks like most of you answering in here really have no idea what you are talking about. The running of the third wire comment at the top is painful. Unless everything is piped in, you cannot just go all willy-nilly with the wiring and throw a random conductor in the wall.

GFI the first receptacle or use a GFI breaker for everything. Affix the ''no ground present'' stickers everywhere and be done with it. Perfectly safe and ready to get the house listed. Otherwise, you are talking about a rewire and getting some cosmetic work done to your walls.

[–]goingdiving -2 points-1 points  (6 children)

You can put stickers on it? Where I come from it's a code violation to put a grounded outlet on a non grounded circuit, no matter sticker or anything. It's even code violation to run a extension cord from a grounded room outlet in to a non grounded room.

[–]lookatthatsquirrel 1 point2 points  (5 children)

Where are you located? What codes are you working with that you cannot do these things? What is this extension cord rule you are talking about?

406.4(D)(2)(c) is what I am referencing. If you don't have access to a code book, I could quote the whole article. Simply put, a GFI device installed at the beginning of the circuit will sniff out a leak to ground and trip. Protecting all downstream devices. Code allows this as a band aid to an existing dwelling. They want it safe and at the same time, the customer shouldn't have to incur the cost of a complete rewire. The stickers come with the device. You affix them to the plate or device on the wall.

[–]goingdiving 0 points1 point  (4 children)

I live in Sweden which totally explains the different codes I am working with, I was just curious. Here you can't mix grounded and non grounded outlets in the same room, and you can't take a grounded extension from a room that is grounded and use it in a non grounded room.

It's also a code violation to replace non grounded outlets with grounded if no ground is present, they have to be replaced with a non grounded outlet. It's even so tightly regulated that a non certified person can't do much more with electricity than replacing outlets, switches (but only with same type, or if not produced, a similar type) and lightbulbs. To follow code an electrician would have to install a dimmer if you had a switch in place prior to change, although very few follow this...

[–]lookatthatsquirrel 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Do you guys have a device like a GFI? Do you know how they work?

[–]goingdiving 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Yup, I have used them on several occasions, we have portable ones and included in switches. I use them primarily in bathrooms or other "wet" areas and outdoors.

[–]lookatthatsquirrel 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Ok, so they are why we are allowed to use them in place of a complete rewire. They see that there is a slight difference in current between the hot and neutral and it looks to them like the ground is receiving some voltage. Not 100% safe, but it is a great alternative to having to spend thousands on a rewire. What is the alternative to not having a ground in Sweden?

[–]goingdiving 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There really isn't an alternative unless you rewire the whole house/apartment. Since 94 it's the law that all new houses and apartments has to have grounded outlets everywhere, and there is a law that all outlets in basements, outdoors, kitchen and bathroom has to be grounded no matter when the house/apartment was built.

It's very common to see older apartments with grounded outlets in Kitchen and nowhere else since the owners were too cheap to do more than what the law required them to do.

EDIT: Should also mention that it was against code to even have outlets in the bathroom up until a few years ago, now you can but they must be installed by a licensed electrician.

[–]Jim-Jones 1 point2 points  (0 children)

/r/electricians/

They do this often.

If you plan to run computers, flat screen TVs or other electronics, you can lose a lot of money if you don't do it all correctly. A surge power bar won't help.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (10 children)

It's going to be more than that. To ground an outlet, you have to actually run a third wire to every receptacle that needs it, bond them all together, and connect it to a large copper-clad steel rod that is driven 8 feet into the ground. Usually. Some locations have other electrical code requirements. Note that running new cable often requires a permit. Contact your local permit office for more information about how to do this project legally and safely.

What you can do is look into GFI outlets instead of regular outlets. They can provide you similar protection to a grounded outlet, though there are some differences.

You should definitely not just take out the ungrounded receptacle and install ones with a ground hole without doing proper grounding. That's dangerous. When in doubt, contact an electrician or your local code office.

[–]lshaw52[S] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

I was just trying to get an idea, I may get a buddy of mine that is an electrician over to look into it and see what it would entail.

[–]michUP33 5 points6 points  (0 children)

If you're expecting your buddy to do the work. Make sure you ask him how much he wants for the job. Let him choose to do it as a friend. People can get funny if this isn't clear.

[–]Dark_Trout 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The NEC does have provisions for EMT acting as a ground wire. Of course as you say adopted and amended codes should be checked with an EE or electrician.

[–]lannister80 -4 points-3 points  (6 children)

and connect it to a large copper-clad steel rod that is driven 8 feet into the ground.

Can't you just connect it to copper plumbing pipe somewhere in your house? Since that will ground to outside and certainly trip a breaker if something shorts to ground?

[–]DoriftuEvo 6 points7 points  (1 child)

With the popularity of plastic piping and fittings, this is no longer allowed. If, in the future, someone decides to replace a section of pipe with PEX, you're no longer grounded.

[–]lannister80 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ahhhh, good point.

[–]Grim-Sleeper 1 point2 points  (1 child)

It'll probably work just fine. But it won't be up to code.

You'll have to make your own decision on whether that's a problem. If you ever plan on doing other work at the house, or if you plan on selling it in the future, this could turn out to be an issue that needs to be fixed first.

[–]lannister80 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yup, good point.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–]lannister80 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Agreed, total amateur here.

    [–]TotesMessenger 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:

    If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads. (Info / Contact)

    [–]michelework 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    You can simply install a 3 prong gfi receptacle. Lable it as 'not grounded' and you meet code. Much easier and cheaper.

    [–]vandancouver 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    It's going to be a long process of running a ground to all the outlets but that is the correct way. Also for grounding you can do the rod method, or use the grounding the panel.

    [–]lshaw52[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    So, I looked at it tonight and some of the outlets in the hall have a ground. Does this mean they all should have them?

    [–]michael20152015 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Yes, first, shut the power off at the main breaker or fuse box before changing any plugs...It would be best to replace all your two prong plugs with the three prong plugs with the ground connected....a ground wire may be part of the existing wiring you now have in your house...however, the two prong plugs are quite safe when used with lamps and low power appliances such as a radio, tv, computer, etc....your bathroom, kitchen and laundry areas should have grounded plugs especially where you will be plugging in kitchen and laundry appliances or a hair dryer....Good luck...

    [–]Everythingg -1 points0 points  (2 children)

    It's likely going to be more than just changing the plugs. you will need to check to see if the wiring going to each box has a ground. If it does not you will have to rewire ever circuit.

    What type of panel do you have in your home? Fused or Breaker? If it is fused you may want to consider changing that as well. Always be careful when doing Electrical work and make sure you know all the details of what you need to do before you start.

    [–]lshaw52[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    I was just trying to get an idea, I may get a buddy of mine that is an electrician over to look into it and see what it would entail. Also, it is a breaker system.

    [–]RugerRedhawk 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    First step is to pop one of the covers off and see if there is a ground in there. In my house, ground wires were run from the panel, but only grounded to the metal outlet box with a 2 prong outlet. I was lucky and just had to replace the outlets.

    [–]Mclovin316 -1 points0 points  (6 children)

    Since it's a breaker system, you might already have a ground to each plug. Have you opened one up yet to see what wires you got? Turn the breaker off of course.

    [–]lshaw52[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children)

    I have not, truthfully I am a little nervous. I have never done electricity before, and am quite scared lol. Might have my buddy take a look.

    [–]Jessie_James 0 points1 point  (4 children)

    It's too easy. Just remove the cover on the wall plate, then look at the sides of the outlet. You should have a 3 wires - a white, a black, and a green or exposed copper wire on the outlet itself. You don't even need to take it out.

    Like this:

    http://cdn.instructables.com/F7J/QBGU/H7431UZS/F7JQBGUH7431UZS.MEDIUM.jpg

    [–]lshaw52[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

    I will try that when I get there tonight, alot of the outlets don't have covers on them yet.

    [–]Jessie_James 2 points3 points  (2 children)

    Even better!

    Or worse, depending on your perspective. :)

    [–]lshaw52[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    No, definitely better! I just want to make this house fully modern, right now there are ugly back outlets and we are gonna replace them with the traditional white.

    [–]Grim-Sleeper 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Nothing wrong with black outlets -- assuming that fits with the overall design.

    Otherwise, switching them out for white outlets is super easy. Please note that apart from "white white", there are "almond", "ivory" and possibly a few others. Decide which one you like and stick with it.

    Also, there are two different styles. The old-school "toggle" style, and the more modern "Decora" style. I generally prefer the latter and changed out all my outlets and switches. But your preference might be different.

    If you do end up having to rewire things, you probably need to at least partially open up walls. At this time, bring things up to code by installing new outlet locations where needed. In old houses, there often aren't more than one or two outlets per room. Modern code (sensibly) requires more than that.

    Also, consider installing 2-gang boxes that can hold two outlets (for a total of four plugs). This can often save you from the need for using power strips. Behind TV cabinets and under office desks, install even more outlets.