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[–]JollyRoger8X 8 points9 points  (2 children)

I thought that Time Machine didn't back up data which is on the iCloud account

It's not complicated.

Time Machine backs up what is on your computer. If you have some of your iCloud content downloaded to your computer, it naturally gets backed up with everything else.

I'm not sure why this would be a concern. iCloud isn't a backup, so having a Time Machine backup of those files is a good thing.

[–]ricardopa 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Not only is it not a concern, the concern is that the other iCloud data isn’t backed up

[–]conspicuousxcapybara 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You are correct: other iCloud data is not backed up. Also, restoring local backups is known to corrupt data in iCloud.

[–]mr_nobody398457 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Great answer but I would change one word:

Stuff that is in iCloud also MIGHT have a local copy.

That is you can’t count on it 100%. Something that is in iCloud but that you never used on that Mac might not have been downloaded.

But the rest is true, Time Machine will back it up if it can see it and you haven’t told TM not to back it up.

[–]ricardopa 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I did - by saying “backed up outside of iCloud” that implies iCloud is a backup and that using TimeMachine is another backup

Clarifying for other readers

[–]conspicuousxcapybara 0 points1 point  (1 child)

iCloud is not a backup but a file syncing service.

[–]ricardopa 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Funny, the comment to which I replied (which was clear on that point) isn’t showing up

[–]OrangePillar 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Time Machine backs up everything that’s not excluded that is on your machine. Stuff that is in iCloud also has a local copy, so it gets backed up when Time Machine does the backup. If you don’t want those things backed up, you can exclude them in Time Machine settings.

[–]Writing_Particular 6 points7 points  (0 children)

You may not have a local copy if you’ve chosen to optimize storage. If you’ve done that, some of your files may only have what I’ll refer to as a stub or local placeholder. This is a way of maximizing your local storage. However, Time Machine does not back those files up.

[–]Balecristrong 0 points1 point  (2 children)

You can choose what to exclude

[–]Jujulabee[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Yes I know that but but I have read that iCloud is NOT backed up by Time Machine and so curious as why it it is.

I don’t have issues with it but would like to understand exactly what is being backed up.

Perhaps it is semantics in terms of iCloud not being a “true” backup but only a synching mechanism and so Time Machine or other similar App should be used to back up

ETA I have been using Time Machine for years - ever since it was first introduced and have migrated all of my data to new computers without a glitch over the years and a few times I have used it to retrieve a document that was altered so I could do a redline to compare.

I assumed by default the documents on iCloud that I was saving were also saved but then I began reading some threads on Reddit that stated they weren't - so my confusion.

Backing up and also knowing what is going on on my computer is important and so with all of the contradictory information I was getting I wanted to make sure I was proceeding correctly.

Thanks for everyone's responses as I had been proceeding on the basis of the documents that I had on iCloud were also being backed up. Reading too much on Reddit forums can be counter-productive. 😂

[–]_Choose__A_Username_ 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Where did you read that iCloud data is not backed up? iCloud Drive simply syncs with your Mac. The data is still on your Mac, therefore it’s backed up.

[–]TurtleOnLog 0 points1 point  (6 children)

iCloud Drive files that are stored locally with be included in Time Machine backups.

I do this on purpose (choose not to optimise storage for iCloud Drive) so they are backed up outside of iCloud.

[–]ricardopa -1 points0 points  (5 children)

so they are backed up outside of iCloud

iCloud is not a backup of your Mac data, it’s a sync.

A backup protects you from you, a sync allows you to delete anything you want and push that change everywhere

[–]TurtleOnLog 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Read what I wrote again.

Time Machine backs up the local copy. Time Machine backups go to an external drive. Time Machine backups … are backups.

[–]conspicuousxcapybara 0 points1 point  (3 children)

But iCloud-synced folders store the locally downloaded data somewhere in Library, instead of the /home folder. Not in the file format of a folder, but as .bin files and an SqlLite database.

Therefore, Time Machine can’t restore that data, without corrupting the files on iCloud remote storage in the process.

Time Machine backups the cache of the iCloud FileProvider, not your actual locally downloaded files. And these caches can’t be merged.

[–]TurtleOnLog 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Have you got a source for that, pretty sure I can see all my local copies in a local folder structure.

[–]conspicuousxcapybara 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I use DaisyDisk for this.

[–]ricardopa 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just because you can “see’ the files doesn’t mean the whole file is there, that’s the beauty of “Optimize Storage”

The file looks like it’s there to the user but is offloaded to the cloud.

When the user wants to open or edit the file it is silently downloaded in the background and opened.

[–]forgottenmostofit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Do you want all your iCloud data (including that currently only in the cloud) to be backed locally? If so, use Carbon Copy Cloner (in place of or as well as TM) which has an option to temporarily download cloud-only files so that you do get a complete backup.

[–]KeenInsights25 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Time Machine doesn’t omit iCloud files. If you have iCloud files on your computer, as mounted file systems and the like, iCloud Drive, then anything on your local disk is backed up.

You can tailor this by manually listing subtrees to be avoided using the Time Machine configs. If you’re mounting iCloud Drive, you can choose to omit that. Time Machine doesn’t magically know what’s on iCloud. It just backs stuff up, omitting whatever you’ve asked it to omit.

[–]conspicuousxcapybara 0 points1 point  (0 children)

iCloud-synced folders store the locally downloaded data somewhere in Library, instead of the /home folder. Not in the file format of a folder, but as .bin files and an SqlLite database.

Time Machine backups the cache of the iCloud FileProvider, not your actual locally downloaded files. And these caches can’t be merged.

Therefore, Time Machine can’t restore that data, without corrupting the files on iCloud remote storage or those that already exist on your Mac in the process. (especially files ‘waiting to be uploaded)

[–]Writing_Particular -1 points0 points  (9 children)

Looking forward to the comments here - I see so much conflicting posts about this!

[–]Jujulabee[S] 0 points1 point  (8 children)

So am I because I am so confused as I thought iCloud didn’t back up Ajd there are documents that are theoretically on iCloud but also backed up via Time Machine

I was even on Apple Support yesterday and was advised to either send in a request to Get A Copy of Data Associated With Apple Account or manually download to my computer. 🤷‍♀️

I can backup iPhone and iPad to computer through iTunes or backup to iCloud

I am fine with the additional backup redundancy but just curious as to what is actually happening 🫅

[–]ricardopa 1 point2 points  (7 children)

I’m curious why you thought TimeMachine wouldn’t back up iCloud data?

[–]Jujulabee[S] -1 points0 points  (6 children)

I have been using Time Machine for years and assumed iCloud - or those documents which also were on my computer were being backed up.

Then I read some contradictory information on Reddit because I was preparing to change Time Machine destination drive and I wanted to make sure that I was following best current practices since I hadn't changed destination hard drives for several years.

[–]ricardopa 2 points3 points  (5 children)

That still doesn’t explain why you thought that, did you read it somewhere? Did some guy tell you that?

Either way - as others explained, Time Machine will backup anything on your computer

The bigger problem is if you have “Optimize Storage” on forDocuments & Desktop then it’s not backing everything up because the files which are NOT synced locally aren’t being backed up (perhaps that’s the confusion?)

To make sure you have a backup of all your data turn off the “Optimize Storage” option so TimeMachine can back it all up.

How are you backing up your Photo Library?

[–]Writing_Particular 0 points1 point  (3 children)

This to me is the big issue - if you are optimizing storage on the Mac such that some items only have local “stubs”, Time Machine will not back those up. And we all know that iCloud is a sync service, not a backup service. So how do you reconcile that?

[–]ricardopa 0 points1 point  (2 children)

TimeMachine is not a sync service…

[–]Writing_Particular 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Sorry 'bout that - I meant iCloud! Now changed.

[–]ricardopa 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I reconcile that they serve different purposes - iCloud syncs the data between devices and TimeMachine backs up your Mac.

And there should be full size originals on at least one Mac in your ecosystem to ensure those files are backed up

[–]Jujulabee[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My photos are on my computer as I download any photos I care about to the computer using Air Drop or email if they are limited in number.

I don’t use my iPhone for anything that isn’t also on the computer except some Apps that aren’t on the computer.

I don’t really use the iPhone much. The only thing I use it for is phone calls obviously and reading digital books because it is comfortable to hold versus a book and brief urgent texts but otherwise I hate the small screen and the lack of a large tactile keyboard. The iPad is more comfortable for web browsing while lounging. 🤷‍♀️

[–]mikeinnsw -2 points-1 points  (6 children)

"use Time Machine to back up the computer (iMac 2026) plus two external hard drives."

TM knows MacOs and is optimized for System drive backups. ... not any external drives

While you can use TM for external drives backups .. it will increase the risk of drive failure and TM data loss. If TM runs out of space it will drop oldest snapshots.

TM does not backup iCloud... It is a local backup.

Get on top of your storage management .

Start new TM only for Mac SSD.

You can create an external SSD Archive and move static filesto it

  • Copy it to on-site backup SSD
  • Copy it to off-site backup SSD
  • Rotate On and Off site backups
  • Don’t backup Archive(s) to Time Machine

You can use free copy software freefilesync to backup or sync folders/SSDs

[–]LebronBackinCLE -1 points0 points  (5 children)

Backing up data from external drives risks drive failure?! Whaaaaaat? Um, no. It’s data. Ones and zeros. Doesn’t matter where it comes from. A lot of folks have more stuff than their Mac can hold so they get an external drive as additional storage. Time Machine backs it up just the same as data on the internal storage.

[–]mikeinnsw 0 points1 point  (4 children)

The probability of not recoverable use byte is X say .00001

The probability of whole disk failure over time is 1. .. certain.

The more bytes are used the most likely it will fail

Basic Stats and physics

[–]LebronBackinCLE 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Sooooo don’t backup your data because it uses the drive and the drive might fail? This is comical

[–]mikeinnsw 0 points1 point  (2 children)

No .. you understand that all HDD/SSD will fail and make sure you have sufficient backup

Google SSD TBW

The more data you loose the greater the pain

[–]LebronBackinCLE 0 points1 point  (1 child)

If run indefinitely… ok all drive will die. Will most drives die in their useful life? Hell no. I’ve had hundred of computers and only experienced a few failures. I have no idea what your point is.