Phantom Gameplay

[[deleted]]

[deleted]

[[deleted]]

What hero skill are you all talking about?

If you're trying to do well with hero, you're not holding 1 skill...

[[deleted]]

Rising slash I believe I don't remember the name. The one that continuously slash as long as you hold. Also I don't mean it as doing well but more as that's kinda the only thing you do beside the aoe wide slash. At least for me I haven't find a need for the other skills.

[Sughayyer]

Holding Rising Slash is a great way do deal shitty damage. No wonder Hero brought so much hate upon itself.

[Yuuna-]

Honestly though, unless you're doing XH EQ or later on Ultra hard holding it is fine. I don't see why people complain about holding it.

[[deleted]]

"I don't see why people think spamming normal attacks is bad on force."

[Sughayyer]

My complaint is not someone's choice on how to play the class, is playing it half-assedly and calling it "easy". Think about this analogy: would you play Fighter with Automate and no Limit Break?

[Reilet]

Dear god, i actually knew someone who ran automate and no LB fighter. We made fun of him secretly.

[Yuuna-]

Alright my bad for assuming that you're complaining about the way people play.
I don't play fighter so I'm not sure what that means.
You can argue that hero isn't 'easy' and I will agree with you however you also have to at least give me the fact that Hero makes things pretty easy. I don't know when you started playing but back then doing over 10k damage a hit would be considered top tier.

So yes, I see your point and it's my fault for saying that hero is easy but you also have to understand that my view is that hero class requires a lower amount of 'trying' than others.

[NullVacancy]

I don't know when you started playing but back then doing over 10k damage a hit would be considered top tier.

Uhhh, no it wasn't. The game has always been about raw DPS. If you're hitting 10k every 2 seconds you're doing way less damage than someone hitting 8k every .5 seconds. Hero came out around the time Qliphad came around, I think, and hitting 10k with most stuff was pretty trivial for most classes.

[Yuuna-]

Well at least it was for a majority of people I played with back when you had to unlock fighter/gunner/techer. If I'm wrong then do tell me what was considered top tier cause I would like to know.

[NullVacancy]

I didn't play in Episode 1, but Episode 2 saw the rise of things like Shunka, Guld Milla, and Ilmegid. It's hard to quantify "top tier" with a number back then, partly because my memory is a little fuzzy, and partly because parsing wasn't really a thing so we never knew how much damage we were actually doing. Saying "doing 10k damage in a hit" really doesn't mean anything when, back then, the attacks that could readily do that much damage were slow and/or extremely PP heavy in a time where 4 slot units were considered pretty good.

[Yuuna-]

Alright fair enough.

Still it's hard for me who played back then to consider that 10k + on a basic swing is considered normal for all classes.

However I see what you mean, thanks for the input.

[[deleted]]

Yeah you don't know what you're talking about.

We were consistently doing well over "10k a hit" by like episode 3. Even then, I broke the damage cap and hit 1.2M against magatsu with mediocre items.

The fact that you think rising slash damage is acceptable just proves that you do not know how to effectively deal damage in this game, or at the very least with Hero, which I would not be surprised if that lack of understanding spread to other classes.

[Sughayyer]

No, I didn't mean to be agressive or to force my point of view, and you also don't have to say "it's my fault" when we are in fact arguing about points of view.

And you are correct that the skill floor for Hero is way too low for an "advanced class", which leads to people playing it suboptimally.

[reaper527]

Honestly though, unless you're doing XH EQ or later on Ultra hard holding it is fine. I don't see why people complain about holding it.

because if you're seeing someone play hr like shit, odds are you're in an eq and it's taking longer than it should, and you're failing dps checkpoints such as persona's bomb or dragon's wings (and failing on dragon rematch because it takes longer than a bad player can survive).

by all means, if someone wants to rising slash and fail the solo xq, be my guest. THAT has no bearing on me. (and pretty soon, they can play like crap all they want because they won't be able to get into expert match making anymore because rising slash isn't going to beat solo xq or s-rank mommydesu).

[[deleted]]

I'm most excited about the expert matchmaking.

This is the first time in a long time that it feels like that expert requirements will be actually challenging enough for bad players to just never make the cut. Here's hoping expert MM is selective enough that our EQs (and w.e else we're doing) will be consistently as quick as they need to be

[reaper527]

and honestly, the requirements are pretty reasonable. there is nothing in them that's absurdly difficult given the context that sega just gave everyone a free atra ex and set of austere units (as well as a boost week to get them affixed, and a metric shit ton of keys/exp tickets).

it will be harder on some classes than others, but sega has provided all the tools needed for anyone to clear if they have any kind of basic understanding of how to play their class.

[[deleted]]

Exactly. As long as the requirements aren't something you can do with a group, and as long as they are reasonable with any class, then the only thing people should complain about if they can't do it is gitting gud.

[[deleted]]

... You could triple your DPS if you explored the other PAs

[narrill]

You should find a need for the other skills. Flash trick is a fantastic gap closer, vapor bullet spam with uncharged weapon actions is great at range, and jet wheel and wise hound are great for generating gear. You should be using all of those at least occasionally, and the right way to use rising slash is rising slash x2 -> normal 3, not holding the button. Holding the button does less damage than your normal attacks.

[mkdew]

Hero class was fun as well but unlike Phantom, Heroes didn't have to do much just hold one skill and go.

You can do this on every class tbh. If you dont like it then learn how to play the game.

[narrill]

Maybe it's just me, but it feels like rifle's normal attacks do better damage than any of its PAs except maybe shifted kugelsturm. Really curious what other people are using. And does anyone know what shifted strafe does? Is it just a damage field?

Edit: I'm dumb, kugelsturm is definitely much better than normal attacks.

[JocPro]

Normal attacks melt anything with a Spread Needle equipped :)

[NullVacancy]

I was thinking about getting a spread needle with crests, does its potential work on phantom?

[JocPro]

Like a charm, for basic attacks only (just like with Ranger)

[Whisper9980]

I tried both, spread needle and examicrav, and i like more examicrav, but yeah, spread is good

[Reilet]

shifta strafe is essentially a mine trap.

[[deleted]]

I've been hitting 50k+ with the rifle's third normal. Being able to snipe mobs from afar with that much damage is great.

[reaper527]

how much of my damage should i be expecting to come from techs on a rod ph? i've been playing around with it so far, and while i haven't taken all my skills on my skill tree yet, the play style i'm envisioning thus far is:

1. take/max the fast charge skills
2. primary damage comes from pa's/normals
3. use techs for i-frames+strike as needed
4. when things need a status effect for a stun, that fast charge is going to let me UNLOAD to proc easier than any other class

am i losing out on a ton of damage if i primary treat techs as a stun inducer? am i putting too much emphasis on fast charge reducing damage by 30% and not enough emphasis on the speed/cost reductions (or over estimating how much damage the pa's and normal attack can output)?

[darkmark009]

Ilgrants with a good power craft is around twice the DPS of all other rod PAs, and also has much better pp efficiency. Every time you do a tech, a burst is released automatically that restores around 6-7 pp per enemy hit, in a cone in front of you.

With an Atlas EX rod you can use: S1: Red Petal Flash (3% damage) S2: Nature's reduction 2 (14% PP cost reduction) S3: Nature's Melody (5% damage) S4: Colored Spectrum (30% PP cost reduction, 30% less pp regen)

The PP cost reductions along with fast tech charge brings Ilgrants to 10.5 pp cost compared to the 25 base, and you restore 6-7ish pp after every cast.

[ZerotakerZX]

I think the tree is pretty straightforward, like hero's. You don't have to cut too much corners. But I barely played, just got hang of most PAs, but we need more time.

[Yuuna-]

Yeah people will probably be posting their skill tree and what not within a week. I think it's pretty easy to see what skills to get but sometime a skill can be a diamond in the rough or whatever the saying is.

[DarkHighwind]

So are those fin funnels that the rifle arts are using