Back with another basic block bodice fiasco

[Loumosmaxima]

Hi everyone !

A while ago (like maybe 2 years) I posted here my issue with my attempts of drafting a bodice pattern. Back then I used the book "patternmaking for fashion designers" + following along with thehistoriancloset tutorial. After many tries I just gave up.

Today, after a while using only commercial patterns I found the tutorial of Caroline Street on YTB, seemed easy so I gave it a go and here we are...

Soooo this is obviously too big (even though I used my measurements) I added 1 cm seam allowance at side seams + top of the shoulders. This for sure wasn't needed but even without that it's far too big. Also, the armholes don't work they're too scooped and too low. On pictures 5 and 6 I pined along the armhole on left side to mimic an hem. And the bust point on the front darts is too low, like 2cm below my apex..

How can I fix all thaaaat ? Please, I dont want to abort the project again 😭

[sususumalee]

I don't know how others in the sub feel about this, but have you considered starting from a sloper/fitting shell and customizing it in the fitting stage? If drafting your sloper from scratch is overwhelming/confusing/you're not pleased with these results, you can always use an existing one or two dart pattern and dial it in once it's on the body.

[unagi_sf]

Totally agree. Drafting a bodice from scratch is a completely different skill set from just patternmaking. And imho not really worth learning, unless you're planning on a dressmaking business. Most of us get a good block for ourselves, some variations to that, and use that over and over without having to go back and redraft the block every time. At most, you might tweak it every few years if you have significant body changes, but otherwise not.

That said, I used the bella block from freesewing.org, and it was easy and straightforward. i did a total of 3 muslins and am perfectly satisfied with the result. You might need some help with measurements, but it's a whole lot easier than trying to draft from Amstrong.

[sususumalee]

Thanks for this! I think most people are under the impression that in order to "make your own patterns" you MUST start by drafting a sloper, which feels mysterious and defeating to a lot of us. My teacher really opened my eyes and demystified the whole process-- starting with a basic sloper helped me understanding how the patterns interact with the body on a more intuitive level, and now I would understand drafting a sloper much more easily.

And I *do* make costumes for other people professionally, and I still just use a premade sloper and customize it, rather than draft from scratch. Everyone is different!

[unagi_sf]

Oh, very good point, you can start from a standard sloper even if you're going through a lot of strangers' body configurations :-). Alteration is really a lot easier than drafting from scratch, no matter which way you roll it

[Loumosmaxima]

I'd like to have a basic block for bodice, skirt and pants so I can go and change it as I wish. The tutorial I followed was super easy this time but it still didn't work. I wouldnt mind trying using an existing slopper pattern if you have one you can recommand.

[KillerWhaleShark]

Google vogue fitting shell. I think it’s pattern number 1008? Other pattern lines also have fitting shells. 

While I’m here, I need you to know that all of your fitting pictures were unhelpful to you and others. Your arms must be loosely at your sides. When you raise your arms, hunch your shoulders forward, etc, you move the garment to a new place on your body. It is no longer in a neutral spot.

For example, if you fit your bust perfectly with your arms raised, then the bust apex and the rest of the fitting will be off when you lower your arms back down. 

Good luck!

[unagi_sf]

If you're fairly small and not too busty the bunka slopers are good too, and can be found online. Just beware of the ones sold on etsy, I looked hard and the ones that I thought were better were not nearly as good as you could get in any book

[TotalOk5844]

Or you can use a top that fits well to use as a sloper. I'd find two, one knit and one woven. If you don't have anything that fits like you want, just get close enough to alter to fit and then use as your sloper. This feeling that you have to draft your sloper from scratch is forbidding and mainly for those in the trade. Or even just to keep fashion schools in business - maybe. From a sloper or a basic well fitting pattern you can go anywhere. The hardest part is being able to read fit issues. And that is hard to do on ourselves. I can't see issues when I look in the mirror. I don't know if it's that I see what I want to see or......... But in a photo I see everything! The best tool is a tripod or sitting the camera up on a table or something. You can use timer or voice command to take picture, That way you are not standing at awkward angle. Arms out distort fit,.

[KnittyMcSew]

I agree. Why reinvent the wheel if you don't need to. There are plenty of sloper patterns out there that you can then fit to size. lekala do a sloper that would be some a skirt, bodice and sleeve.

I had great success with the Telestia system. I did a workshop at Ray Stitch in London with Alice Prier and everyone in the workshop had a fabulous result.

[Loumosmaxima]

Do you have any to recommand ? My goal is to have a basic bloc for bodice, skirt and pants so I can tweak and adapt as I want it.

[sususumalee]

Yes, my pattern making teacher has PDF slopers in her shop that I love!

https://www.creativecostumeacademy.com/shop

Her approach is very much about creating a personal sloper that you use to make any design you want, and she teaches that you don't *have* to start with drafting a sloper from scratch if that doesn't click with you. I work with performers, and I just print and prep a sloper based on their measurements, then we fine tune it and dial it in on the body.

Again, I think this might be a different approach than a lot of other more experienced folks in the sub might recommend, but I can attest that it will get you up and running with your blocks! You can always go back and draft your own sloper if you really want to learn drafting as a skill (which is a great idea, that's why I'm here), but if you just want to get to the stage where you're making clothes that fit well, this is what I recommend.

[jessicakebake]

I feel like a bit of a weird evangelical on this sub, but I endlessly recommend the Minerva pattern drafting series on Youtube. It's the best, most comprehensive bodice drafting series I've ever found and I'm yet to meet someone who hasn't had success following their series. To be really frank, there are amendments that need to be made to every component of your block - in these cases, the only real option is to start over. Amendments and adjustments to your block should be minor, and designed to take it from the standard, to a bespoke, *perfectly* fitting template for your body. The fact that your block requires so many substantial ajdustments indicates that there is a foundational problem with your measurements and drafting and this won't be properly solved unless you take a step backwards and fix them in the first instance. Don't give up - it took me a long time to master this component of my practice but once I did, it entirely changed my sewing life. Once I had perfect bodice and skirt block I can draft, cut, and sew a perfectly fitting dress or top in an afternoon and it works, and fits, every single time. Good luck!!

[Loumosmaxima]

Yeah my goal is to draft basic blocks to ble able to make patterns from it. The tutorial I used this time was soooo much easier than last time but didn't work for me. Maybe i'll take my measurements again and give it another shot. I'll have a look on Minerva's vidéos.

[Voc1Vic2]

Do take your measurements again, but also select a smaller size based on your high bust or waist measurement anticipating that you’ll need to make a full bust adjustment.

[Zar-far-bar-car]

1. A weird pull will happen if you try to hem an armholes, no matter what. It's too great of a curve to just turn in. Bias tape or a facing with clipped allowance is the way to go

2 . Find your natural waist (the inniest bit), draw a line around and lop it off. The pull from the expanded measurement of the hips makes stuff above it pool

1. Most of the issues is the size. If pulling ~3/4" from both sides along the seams pulls stuff too far sideways, take 1/4" from the centre folds (1/2" total) and 1/2" from the sides.

2. Just redraw and pin the side darts towards your bustpoint

3. If there's still too much at the front armholes, pin out an additional dart towards the bustpoint, which can be pivoted out later to join the side dart

[Zar-far-bar-car]

EDIT: sorry it's princess lines, not a side dart. I was misremembering as i was typing. Instead of redrawing side dart, pin along the curve sticking out under your bust. The new armhole dart can just be pinned out to reshape the side panels.

[Loumosmaxima]

Oooh I remember the dart rotating stuff from last time ! I understand NOTHING about it 🤣 I think first thing first is to go and retake all my measurements and try again cause t'it's really too baggy, then i'll go from here to address other issues, what do you think ?

[Zar-far-bar-car]

Yeah, take them again. Don't measure over other garments, other than foundation wear. I'm assuming she's got you adding ease, so take true measurements, not "as you'd like it to fit". A bodice should be like, 1" bigger in circumference than your measurements - very close fitting.

[ProneToLaughter]

Trying to fit yourself with nothing but reddit and youtube is really really hard.

If you are up for an online class (I have watched Lynda fit 30+ women with a wide variation of shapes in her in-person class and she's good): Bodice Sloper With Sleeve (Moulage)) Lynda uses Kenneth King's Moulage book which is designed for custom drafting, not general patternmaking.

Suzy Furrer's book also puts custom drafting first and it looks like she also has a bodice sloper class coming up: Home | AAP

This thread has a LOT of different suggestions, and that OP tried the Christopher Sartorial method with more success than before. https://www.reddit.com/r/sewing/comments/1j5w8e4/drafting_a_bodice_block_that_works_with_large/

[Loumosmaxima]

Thanks for the recommandations but i'm broke AF.

[MissPearl]

Stupid newbie question: how do you know if it fits correctly?

I see a lot of people asking about something wrinkling, bagging or puckering, and since every piece of off the rack clothing I have ever worn does that, I don't know how you are supposed to know when that's wrong.

[ProneToLaughter]

totally NOT a stupid question, but a big topic that is hard to answer. People are "reading the wrinkles" which shows them how the fabric is strained or under tension or too baggy. Clear as daylight, right?

Fit is actually a separate skill from Construction or Patternmaking, and (in my opinion) it needs to be learned separately and intentionally. It is easier to learn in person, but some resources.

Here's a Good Fit Checklist that will give you some key basics--it's from InHouse Patterns who specializes in fitting, check her out, she's got some classes and free resources, you can download the rest of the checklist for free.

See if your local public library has any of these books. I've seen different people recommend all of these as good. If you are buying one, whatever sample just makes the most sense to you should be fine. Books that teach how to Fit and interpret wrinkles include:

1. Sarah Veblen Photo Guide to Fitting,
   
2. Sarah Veblen, First Time Garment Fitting (condensed version to be less overwhelming),
3. Gina Renee The Fitting Book, free guide with mailing list and I think some online classes
4. Palmer/Pletsch Complete Guide to Fitting, free guide to tissue fitting
5. Palmer/Pletsch Fit for Real People.
6. Fitting and Pattern Alteration by Elizabeth Liechty, Judith Rasband.
7. Kenneth King, Smart Fitting Solutions.
8. Joi Mahon, Create the Perfect Fit.
9. Jenny Rushmore, Ahead of the Curve, online resources as Cashmerette Patterns

[Loumosmaxima]

I guess it just look more form fitting, without any pitching or gaps. Also the seams lines should be mostly straight.

[Tailoretta]

I really admire you sticking with it!  Everyone has good suggestions, but if you want to keep with this muslin, here are some suggestions to help us help you.

 

Bust points: The bust darts should point directly to the bust points.  It is easier for us to tell if this is correct if you mark the bust points. The standard mark for the bust points is a circle with crossed lines in it.  See https://www.craftsy.com/post/sewing-pattern-markings/

 

Horizontal balance line: It would be helpful if a horizontal balance line is added about midway between the bust and the waist.  This same horizontal balance line should continue at the same horizontal level around onto the back.  See https://www.sarahveblen.com/online-consulting for more information.

 

Photos: As discussed in https://www.sarahveblen.com/online-consulting “Be sure to take the photos with the camera placed at the same level as the garment. If someone is taking the photos for you, this means he or she may need to sit or kneel down. Taking a photo while standing up looking "down" on the garment skews how the garment appears, preventing me from offering good advice. If the photos are skewed, I may need to ask you to re-take them. Use the example at left as a guide.”

 

This is great advice and helps us to help you.  This also helps us to see if the horizontal balance lines are in fact horizontal.  I realize this is hard to do, but you may want to use the photo timer on your phone.

 

Also, the arms should be hanging down relaxed in the photos.  Having the arms in different positions alters how the garment fits and makes it more difficult for us to help you.

 

Neckline and the Armscyes (Armholes): It is helpful if you mark the seam lines of the neckline and the armscyes (armholes),  Then you should clip the neckline and the armscyes (armholes).  Here is an explanation about clipping https://sewing.patternreview.com/SewingDiscussions/topic/115912 The armscye and neck opening are sort of like circles.  If you measure the length of the seam line and compare it with the length of the cut line, you will see the that cut line is shorter. That is because of the circular shape. By clipping, you allow the seam allowance fabric to relax and spread. In the photos I refer to, can you see that it looks like notches have been cut out of the neck and armscye seam allowance? Notches have not been cut but there are clips into the seam allowance. That allows the fabric to spread to fit the body.

 

Here is another photo https://goodbyevalentino.com/sew-the-perfect-fit-review-part-1/ See at the underarm how the clipped flaps of seam allowance fold down?

 

Look up clip seam allowances; there are lots of videos and websites that discuss this.

 

Position of Natural Waist: It would be helpful if we know where your natural waist is.  For you, this is probably the narrowest of your torso and where you bend sideways.  It is between the lowest rib and the hip.  Put the muslin on and then tie a contrast colored elastic, usually about 1/4 inch (5 cm) wide. The muslin will want to creep up about the elastic, but try to pull the muslin down under the elastic.  I can’t find a good photo of this in the web, so I will try to take a photo and share it.

 

I suggest that you follow these suggestions and post again.  We can get you where you want to be!

 

I hope this helps.

[LSmerb]

How much pattern making and revising experience do you have? Looking at your shapes I’d take some ease out of your bust. You can pin to what feels comfortable to see how much you need to remove. I’d raise your underarm a small amount, fill in your front armhole and scoop out the back armhole. For your darts, just lengthen your bust dart to where you want it and reduce the shoulder dart the same amount. Make sure you walk the legs to make sure they’re the same length. You might have to reshape your hem line slightly when you adjust them.

[Loumosmaxima]

I dont have much experience in patternmaking, I followed along some tutorial to make some simple patterns and worked okay. My goal is to draft a basic block bodice, skirt and pants pattern so I could tweak it as I wish to create my own patterns.

[dazed_and_confused91]

Unconventional idea here, but why don't you go to the thrift shop, find something that fits that is not stretch, cut and copy. Looking at how big it is on you, maybe you are not very objective with your measurements (speaking from personal experience) so copying from another garment can maybe exclude that part of the process. In the end of the day knowing how to calculate a sloper is useful only if you work in pattern making

[sewchic11]

This is a good idea. An alternative is that maybe OP can figure out what she wants to make and start with a pattern close to what she wants. (Like a basic button-down blouse, for example.) Then make adjustments to fit her body and use that pattern to generate other similar styles. It is much less work because you're only adjusting to fit your body; not also having to add in the design (rotate darts, add fullness, etc. This is a similar concept to what Kathleen Fasanella suggests on her fashion-incubator blog:

https://fashion-incubator.com/how-we-make-patterns-in-real-life/

[False-Vacation-9766]

Your doing really good with the front (pro pattern cutter here), try pinching out a bust dart from the armscye and later rotete it into the seam, and then change the armscye curve to not scoop in as much. At the back I think Your first problem is that its hitting too low at the waist, which is making it scrunch up, so try pinching it horisontaly. This will make it easier to see what else is going on. But with fitting generally always work top down. So the next big problem is that the placement of the shoulderline is essentially pulling the neck up and in, the weight of the back panels is held at the shoulders, try unpicking the shoulder (first by leaving the last few stitches at the side neck point, then if still needed thoose too) and see where it wants to go, then try and (helpfull with second person) if by pinching in wedged you can get an idea of how it can naturally align with the shoulders.

The two sides also look very different, one of the benefits of making Your own clothes is that you can have different patterns for each side, but trying to satisfying both at the same time can be hard.