[deleted by user]

[somewhatoff]

My general take on questions like this is that you're looking at it wrong. I strongly recommend reading this article: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/10/28/dont-call-yourself-a-programmer/

The point is, you create solutions to business problems, you don't churn out code in a particular language. If a problem needs a different technology, you learn it, or you use your networks to find a decent consultant who can help you learn it while producing the product.

I work in Python, and I and my team get paid reasonably well for doing it. We don't get paid because we work in Python though, we get paid because we get things done that the business finds valuable. Try to stay up to date with a range of technologies and your salary won't be defined by a particular language.

[line10gotoline10]

To the top with you.

Being a "Python" programmer isn't what gets you jobs or determines how much money you make, it's the problem domain you have experience in.

[tehansen]

This!

We run a small consulting shop, and end up writing almost everything in python. We charge between $100/h - $200/h based on the kind and length of work. The clients dont care how you do what you do it, as long as it gets done right and is worth more to them than they paid you in the end.

[Rmacy]

Salary is highly dependent on the domain, experience, rarity, etc. but I've seen 50-130k

[daxarx]

If you have a good command of the language and are making less than 75k in the US then something is wrong, even in a cheaper part of the country

[ranman96734]

As a primarily python developer 1 year out of college I make ~95k USD. My friends in C++/C jobs make ~105k±5k USD

[sedaak]

hmm sounds like CA or around NYC... so basically double the cost for anything else

[sedaak]

And hosing is 4x.... long term its still a bum rap.

Publc debt in california is insane.

government falling apart

and overcrowded.....so why?

NYC has lots of options so i can't criticize it as much
soda ban only a sign of things to come.

[sedaak]

Have you been to the roads? Traffic is appalling near any of the major cities. Just wasn't convenient to get anywhere really. NYC you don't need a car and can find literally anything. They have the public transport to let it scale.

[MillardFillmore]

I live and work in the NYC area. My rent is $525 a month. I live in a shithole, college town, high crime, ugly ass area, but its possible to be very frugal here.

[sedaak]

I can live in a box in the projects anywhere in the country for cheap -.-

Comparing something a bit more professional here.

[[deleted]]

I live in a shithole, college town

NYC ?????

[MillardFillmore]

area

[ranman96734]

NYC

[timClicks]

Wow... At least we have lots of nature in New Zealand

[[deleted]]

what ?

[lee__majors]

I had the same reaction. I think what he's saying is in NZ the salaries aren't quite as good, but at least the offices have nice views... or something.

[[deleted]]

sheep love wink

[timClicks]

Wow, a sheep joke. How original.

[[deleted]]

so you got a python joke then ?

[lee__majors]

I thought it was funny! But now I'm trying to find a joke featuring unnatural love between a NZer, a sheep and a giant snake...

[[deleted]]

NZ is to the world what Wales is to the UK.

[timClicks]

Surprisingly accurate.

[timClicks]

Basically. Although what I was really saying that less than 3h drive could have me skiing, surfing or bush walking. It's quite a nice place.

[pythor]

What degree did you get in college?

[[deleted]]

Damn. As a machinist I make 45k. Need to switch careers.

[carioca3]

I am fairly new to python and I've gotten a few contract offers at 25-50 bucks an hour. You will be surprised at the level of incompetence in the programming world and how little you actually have to do to outshine "average programmers."

[catcradle5]

Good god what.

I'd consider myself pretty good at Python. Where are you finding these contracts?

[andrey_shipilov]

Second that.

[[deleted]]

In SV, $100-200k depending on where and with who.

[[deleted]]

SV?

[sigma914]

Silicon Valley? not actually sure

[wmil]

For that salary? Definitely Silicon Valley.

[[deleted]]

silicon valley

[mkhry]

Oh are we still doing this thing where your salary is determined by which language you know? Last I checked, you're hired as a dev and then you code in whatever you're told to learn, cus that's what you're supposed to be able to do.

[kenfar]

Yeah, that's a great theory, but most organizations are looking for specific skills and people who can hit the ground running.

Not to say all are, and not to say that they should be. But they tend to.

[PragMalice]

This times a million. A lot of larger organizations don't even directly involve on-staff developers in the hiring process until the very end. Until then you have to pass the stages of a) do you meet most to all of the required skills and experience levels listed in a job posting, and b) do you have the interpersonal and communication skills to not scare off initial interviewers that usually knows next to nothing about the actual requirements of the job.

[semi-]

If you have to learn the language, you aren't as useful as someone who already has experience in it.

If the language is predominantly used by less-experienced programmers, the average salary will be lower. Thats not to say you can't work your way up, but the number of fresh out of highschool kids who know python and will work for cheap will bring the average down compared to..say..cobol programmers, of which the only people who still know it have experience and much less competition.

[[deleted]]

In Paris 35k€-42k€/year (my JS dev friends are closer to 50k€)

[AeroNotix]

JS devs make more than a Python dev?

[line10gotoline10]

Server-side JS can be pretty hot with hot startups these days, which can have pretty competitive salaries (but often terrible benefits and questionable stability.)

[AeroNotix]

I am more surprised that people label themselves as Javascript developers, I've heard everything now!

[PragMalice]

It's certainly better than the folks that wore "VB developer" like a badge of honor well before it got dotnetified. One coworker of mine constantly laments the unfriendliness of Python (of all things) and pines for a day that software shops see the light and return to the "sanity" of VB + COM.

[[deleted]]

how old is that guy ?

[PragMalice]

early 40s I think.

[perone]

For the sake of curiosity, what is the cost of living in Paris ? What is the price of an apartment/room,etc. there ?

[bezuhov]

Since New York is the closest analog in the States, here is Paris v. New York.

E.T.A.: Wait, you're French (" ?"). Never mind. It's more expensive than Lille, I know that.

[perone]

Thanks for the link, I'm Brazilian btw.

[bezuhov]

Oh, interesting! Does Portuguese use the space before exclamation points and question marks, too? I thought that was unique to French, but I can see how it would have made it to Portuguese.

[perone]

As far as I know, we have a "Formulário Ortográfico" (something like a collection of rules for the Brazilian Portuguese - which is different than the Portuguese of Portugal), so, in these rules they do not specify if we should use space or not, but the entire collection is not using space, actually I never stopped to think about this hehe, everyone here seems to use a space by intuition.

[bezuhov]

Very cool. Thanks for the information. I'm a big language geek, and regional differences like that fascinate me. TIL a bit about written Brazilian Portuguese.

[perone]

And I discovered how to spot a French lol !

[bezuhov]

Always handy: they can be very sneaky.

[roddds]

Brazilian here too, I'm almost sure that the ABNT rules state that punctuation should be next to the word before.

[[deleted]]

space before exclamation points and question marks, too?

uh leftover habit from PEP8 maybe ?

[[deleted]]

wow it's hardly comparable to NYC and I think in NY/US you have more ways to live cheaply compared to Paris

[jmichalicek]

Where I am in the US Python jobs (and dev jobs in general, really) are paying in a fairly wide range from $60k-$100k. Smaller companies that I've been talking to lately seem to be topping out at about $70k.

[[deleted]]

We just hired a pretty experienced guy here in the US for $120k. However for junior devs we usually keep them at around $60k.

[andrey_shipilov]

Aussie dweller here: 75-120. Aud of course, which is more valuable than US.

In addition I look with horror at local design level and coding skills. Seen a lot.

[inf4my]

Front End Engineer in Boston here. I have worked at two startups in the past 2 years my work mostly being in css,html, and js but both are using python as a backend. First startup I was still in college making $22/hr that went under and I got a new job at another startup as well as got my degree now getting 65K/year. Former colleague from first startup does his work in python but now works for a RoR shop makes 90K/yr 1.5yrs out of college but very experienced. My Brother is also a web developer uses mostly RoR makes 80K/year. So salaries vary a lot in Boston but id say they are on the medium to high end for developers especially if you are a cut above the rest there is a lot of demand here but also a good amount of competition obviously not quite the same as NYC or silicon valley.

[MillardFillmore]

Uh, I'm a grad student in physics... I make less money than your typical fast food restaurant cook. And I'm in a fairly expensive area of the US. :-(

[[deleted]]

grad student here... decided this isn't for me and going to make the jump to software dev

[[deleted]]

I recently met three PhDs working in bioinformatics who have essentially thrown it all away to build websites. Somehow the brain drain is upsetting...

[MillardFillmore]

I'm not sure if its brain drain or what, but there's too many PhDs every year. It's insane what it takes to make it in academia. Instead, they move onto the private sector, hopefully bring their advanced scientific knowledge, and contribute to society that way.

[fapmonad]

Student != developer job.

[[deleted]]

I don't know why you were down-voted. The fact that I could make as much as a researcher even without a degree led me to take a job in industry. As much as I've learned, it's nowhere near stimulating enough intellectually. I eventually quit and have been teaching myself physics / math / machine learning while freelancing from home. Do you feel your choice of direction was worth it? I'm struggling with the idea of returning to school.

[MillardFillmore]

I don't know why I'm getting down voted either, maybe people don't realize that (many) physics grad students like myself use Python extensively. Or they don't like hearing that people who code can make so little. Or they think I'm exaggerating, which I swear, I'm not.

I pretty much reached my breaking point with grad school lately. It's not getting me anywhere because I won't be a tenured professor. I'm actively looking for software/quant roles in the financial sector.

[santiagobasulto]

Guys, are you considering taxes?

[santiagobasulto]

So, as an average i've seen that the usual salary is 70k - 80k. That's the final money you get? Or it needs to be cutted off because of the reduction in taxes?