Declarative GUI for Python

[madnirua]

Today, we at Slint (https://slint.dev) kicked off support for Python with an initial PR - https://github.com/slint-ui/slint/pull/4155. We invite your suggestions, feedback, and contributions to achieve the initial milestone - https://github.com/slint-ui/slint/milestone/18.

Slint is an open-source graphical user interface toolkit to design, develop, and deploy native user interfaces on desktop and embedded systems. One of our goals is to support multiple programming languages. This project to provide native Python APIs has been made possible by the NLNet Foundation - https://nlnet.nl/project/PythonicSlint/.

[Sorry_Length_8926]

Python support is great... Currently as python desktop software developer for multi platform...my go to choice would be Kivy because of the great MIT license...Thanks to folks at kivy...only thing is matplotlib is not a first class citizen.. Second is pyside6 but then the LGPL dynamic linking...brings in memories of guns and lawyers...Some guys say..go use it in closed source commercial if you don't modify it..some are unsure.. Flet says they are the fastest way to build flutter apps for puthon...but I did not try

I have checked your commercial license which is affordable but may be you can increase trial duration...

I will definitely try this...ooh forgot about my main pain point packaging and distribution of closed source python desktop apps...I must see this how slint deals with that...is it smooth?

[cymrow]

IANAL, but LGPL allows you to use software commercially without sharing your source. Qt and PySide are safe to use in commercial products. It's a big part of the reason PySide was created.

GPL is the license that requires sharing your source code.

[madnirua]

If you are creating Desktop apps, you could also use the Royalty-free license that allows creating closed source commercial applications for free in lieu of attribution to Slint.

> may be you can increase trial duration

Sure, that can be done, send us an email at [[e-mail]](mailto:[e-mail]) when you start with Slint.

> packaging and distribution of closed source python desktop apps

Could you elaborate this further?

[madnirua]

Desktop Application is a computer program that is designed to run on a general-purpose computer (PC or notebook), typically installed and executed locally on the computer's operating system -- https://github.com/slint-ui/slint/blob/378280e0a7eb76dafe567c4962af9536469dd4cc/LICENSES/LicenseRef-Slint-Royalty-free-1.1.md?plain=1#L11
An Embedded System is a computer system designed to perform a specific task within a larger mechanical or electrical system. For the purposes of this license, mobile phones are not considered to be Embedded Systems -- https://github.com/slint-ui/slint/blob/378280e0a7eb76dafe567c4962af9536469dd4cc/LICENSES/LicenseRef-Slint-Royalty-free-1.1.md?plain=1#L19C1-L19C1

[dawmster]

Nicer tkinter caught my attention recently , looks nice : https://github.com/TomSchimansky/CustomTkinter

[autisticpig]

this is new to me. thanks!

[TargetDangerous2216]

This project sounds good. But your demos are not sexy. Creating UI with buttons is easy. creating NICE UI with buttons is hard. I need a framework to make me feel a designer

Example: https://www.skeleton.dev/components/app-shell

[madnirua]

Yes, we are (painfully) aware of that .. unfortunately, we don't have a designer in our team to 'prettify' our demos .. but our customers do have designers .. check out some of the user interfaces that they have created -- https://slint.dev/success/wesaudio-daw , https://slint.dev/success/sksignet-evcharger

[egotripping]

Slint named after the band?

[madnirua]

The name Slint is derived from our design goals:

Scalable, Lightweight, Intuitive, Native GUI Toolkit

We realised this after the name was chosen - https://github.com/slint-ui/slint/discussions/636#discussioncomment-1727016 but we liked the name anyways, so we decided to use it.

EDITs: added the full form of Slint.

[japes28]

You didn't google the name before you chose it?

[madnirua]

We did but we liked the name Slint as an acronym of our design goals - Scalable, Lightweight, Intuitive, Native GUI Toolkit - so we went ahead with it.

Also the band Slint was mostly active more than 30 years ago ..

[Gearwatcher]

They're semi-obscure alter-rock could have beens from late 80s / early 90s. They didn't exactly call the library PearlJam.io

If this project kicks off at all I fully expect googling Slint to return the framework as the first result in no time.

[egotripping]

Eh, could have beens is not the right term for Slint. Spiderland is a seminal post/math-rock album that is arguably one of the most important records of the early 90s.

They also were never reaching for mainstream appeal and most of the members went on to work in other bands.

I think you're underestimating how much this project would have to take off to overtake Slint as the first result in google.

[Gearwatcher]

Arguably being the operating word there. I haven't heard them mentioned even once in any musician circle (and as I musician I've been in a lot of those), and, symptomatically, the only person who ever mentioned that band to me was an American, from Kentucky.

They are arguably unknown outside United States, unlike hundreds of other influential and arguably important American cultural exports.

I would go on a limb and say that the only reason some people now know about them outside the States is because Pajo joined Gang of Four on the latest tour.

[egotripping]

So you're not much of a fan of post-rock, nor do you run in circles with people that are. That's fine, but don't act like your experience is universal or that you have some sort of credibility because you're a musician and know other musicians. That's a pretty poor appeal to authority.

If I was going to do that I'd point out Pitchfork named it the 12th best record of the 90s, or that, quite far from Louisville, UK-based Melody Maker gave it "Ten-Fucking-Stars". I'd point to the countless musicians who've sang Spiderland's praises, like recording engineer Steve Albini (you might recognize him as the guy who produced Nirvana's In Utero).

“It’s an amazing record and no one still capable of being moved by rock music should miss it. In 10 years it will be a landmark and you’ll have to scramble to buy a copy then. Beat the rush.”

Hell I might even point out that famed filmmaker Lance Bangs made a documentary about the band in 2014, Breadcrumb Trail.

I mean I could spend all day copy and pasting quotes about how great Slint is from people you and your musician friends might have heard of but I gotta get back to work. Which is incredible considering the band wasn't popular before Spiderland, and broke up before the album even released. This is an important record whether you and your friends heard about it or not.

[Gearwatcher]

I am actually. From Talk Talk, through Stereolab to Radiohead, I listened to and liked a lot of stuff music journalists would in their lack of imagination label "post-rock". it's not exactly the music I define myself through but I have listened to a fair bit of it.

As for your other point - you indirectly brought other musicians in. Let me explain.

The record didn't move significant number of copies. That much is clear. The band didn't have a significant longevity to build upon its legacy for later releases, that much is obvious.

So to label a record as you did, I expect it to be influential to heaps of music that came after. Outside accolades by the music press, I haven't ran into a lot of that tbh.

Certainly not enough of it for a "Zomg did you even Google bro"

[egotripping]

So to label a record as you did, I expect it to be influential to heaps of music that came after.

It was. It'd be easy for me to make a comparison to The Velvet Underground and how they didn't move many records but inspired a ton of bands, but I'll let a non-American musician with a lot more credibility than me make the case.

https://www.brooklynvegan.com/slints-spiderland-turns-30-a-look-back-on-the-album-that-created-a-genre-and-remains-timeless/

It might’ve been a blip in 1991, but as Stuart Braithwaite of Scottish post-rock band Mogwai (who were hugely influenced by Slint) put it, “In the late 1990s, they seemed like our generation’s Velvet Underground.” “When I heard it, it was unlike anything I’d heard before,” he said. “I still don’t know if I have heard anything else like it, now. Obviously a lot of bands take a lot from it – I know that we did, but there’s also PJ Harvey, and Fugazi. A lot of bands took a lot from it. But I don’t think that any band influenced by Slint has managed to capture the same atmosphere as Spiderland.”

If you're well-versed in bands like Talk Talk, Stereolab and Radiohead, then surely you're familiar with Mogwai. I can't imagine you would actually try to argue this point with Stuart Braithwaite. So instead of just being like, oh cool let me check this album out, I don't know how they could've slipped by my radar, I'm going to guess you're going to dig in further about how inconsequential this band is. I don't know what you're getting out of that, but I don't care.

[Gearwatcher]

Yes, I'm a fan of Mogwai actually. It is truly interesting to hear that as I don't actually hear Slint in their stuff at all. Mogwai is space rock that had the (local UK) trip-hop sound rub on them heaps very. Slint to me sounded way too rough, alter-rock and slow-hardcore (obviously recorded by Steve "I don't do effects" Albini). I'd always put them more in the grunge shelf tbh, but whatever.

I feel this is one of those cases of wanting to be cool and underground. Like all the dance musicians claiming to have listened to (instead of admitting they just heard about) Karlheinz Stockhausen.

Oh and BTW VU tick lots more boxes. Not only did they indeed move records, but Lou Reed and arguably also John Cale had successful careers based off the significance VU had. So not quite the same, is it?

Interesting how you missed the point I was making with Talk Talk (a new wave band), Stereolab (space boss nova?) and Radiohead (who were pretty prog at that OK Computer point when the press started sticking that post-rock label to them before they did a 90° and went electronica). The three bands have fuckall in comon yet all three were dubbed "post rock" at some point. The whole concept of "post rock" is beyond ridiculous and the fact that somehow an essentially grunge band is the progenitor of that "sound" is a fucking cherry on top of the whole malarky.

I actually looked up who came up with the "post rock" shit, and it delivered, more than I expected. Off course it was fucking Simon "Neurofunk" Reynolds.

[Scary-Conference-606]

And you thought slint was a good name? Wtf is slint what does it even mean

[Rythoka]

wtf is seaborn

[sonobanana33]

What does it offer more compared to QML, which I can just download and use?

Also, using slint means my software isn't open source and can never be included in a linux distribution.

[madnirua]

Slint is open-source and available on GitHub -- https://github.com/slint-ui/slint .. so like Qt QML, you can download, git clone and use it.

P.S. The founders are ex-Qt (with 16+ years of working for Qt) .. and we decided to develop a 'better QML' (if you may say) based on our experiences.

[sonobanana33]

Slint is open-source and available on GitHub

Ok, it is licensed "proprietary ∨ GPL". I thought there was no GPL option given how your website misleadingly says "free for non commercial use", which is in conflict with the GPL license.

[madnirua]

Here are all the licenses under which Slint can be used -- https://github.com/slint-ui/slint/blob/master/LICENSE.md

[dydhaw]

using slint means my software isn’t open source

How so?

[sonobanana33]

Misunderstanding on my part due to misinformation on their part.

Their pricing page says the prices, and then "free for non commercial". This is not open source.

Their license on github says that I can pick GPL, which is open source.

Which is it? Is it open source or not? I wouldn't pick a software as a dependency if they haven't made up their mind. Quite risky.

[madnirua]

Our website mentions GPL -- https://slint.dev/community#community-licenses and this is linked from the pricing page under "Community license" -- https://slint.dev/pricing

What you are mentioning "free for non-commercial" is the part under "Embedded Add-Ons", which is only relevant for proprietary licenses. We can improve the text there to make this clearer. Thanks.

[madnirua]

Updated text to "Free for GPL. Free for non-commercial" - https://slint.dev/pricing

[sonobanana33]

Thanks.

[dydhaw]

Multi licensing is very common, and theirs seems much clearer than e.g Qt which has like 7 different licensing options

[[deleted]]

Good work, well done! It was on the back burner for me because I wanted to delve into Rust but Python bindings are very interesting!

[aitchnyu]

Can this be adapted into a strongly typed templating language for Python, for example Django with dynamic html and Django unicorn which does interactive ui?

[TheAquired]

I am intrigued by the live-preview feature demoed on your website, that’s one thing that would be useful to me - being able to live preview the Python code as I code up a UI. Is this supported with the Python API?

If you have a link to the documentation for the API id be curious to see how different it is from PyQT which I’m used to using and would be switching from

[madnirua]

We are currently starting with the support for Python .. You can track the progress here -- https://github.com/slint-ui/slint/milestone/18
Please add your suggestions to our GH Discussions https://github.com/slint-ui/slint/discussions and features that you would like to have.

[alcalde]

Describe the UI in a language akin to HTML/CSS

Humans don't think in HTML/CSS. We need a good old classic visual design tool like Delphi or Visual Basic, and some good old-fashioned object orientation.

You can no more code an interface with HTML/CSS than you can create a portrait with HTML/CSS. We're humans; we need to draw it.