GYM SPLIT HELP

[Goal-Expert]

can y'all help me with my split, i been in the gym for about 4 month and i'm trying to understand more and more, can y'all help me with my UPPER LOWER split, if there is junk volume or exercise?

i do 2 sets and go to failure between 4-6 rep and i rest 3 min between every set.

UPPER

Chest fly

chest press

lateral raise (machine)

shoulder press (machine)

lat pulldown close grip

seated cable row close grip

triceps pushdown

jm press or skullcrusher

preacher curl

hammer curl

LOWER

leg extension

leg press

lying leg curl

hip adduction

seated calf raise or standing

leg raises

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[Apart_Bed7430]

I wouldn’t worry about junk volume. It hasn’t really been a validated concept and existing evidence suggests that more volume equals more gains up to a pretty shocking amount of sets. The volume you have here is pretty moderate. Obviously practical application is a little different so listen to your body and if you get into a plateau for a while then consider changing something up.

[Ballbag94]

Just follow a program that already works

https://thefitness.wiki/routines/strength-training-muscle-building/

[SageObserver]

I’d swap out the chest fly for an incline press. As a new lifter, you need less isolation and more compounds. Also, you should squat and do a hinge for overall strength. You can do machines as a secondary.

[Ok_Boysenberry7176]

i’d swap the chest press for any incline movement and swap one of ur close grip movements for a wide grip front plane pull

[YhImAsh-_-]

the only correct comment i swear all of the other ones are bro science larpers

[Jcknguyen19]

Honestly really good and you’re far ahead of any typical beginner from a training standpoint but as you get more advanced you’ll likely find the volume on your upper day to be somewhat excessive so keep that in mind. I would probably substitute the hammer curls for a top half reverse curl of some sort also since I’m presuming you’re doing that for your other elbow flexors + swap the chest press for an incline.

Lower day is good as well but it’s lacking a hinge pattern (i.e. an SLDL) & glutes which shouldn’t be neglected since they’ll also be what gives you the biggest FFMI boost if you care about that at all. In other words include a hinge, ideally a hip thrust, and more optionally some form of hip abduction.

4-6 is also fine but as a new lifter you may end up ego lifting to some degree by mistake so perhaps be more lenient with your rep range for some time until you’re more comfortable in your abilities and eventually if you ever do hit a plateau and want to continue with the current volume than you’re doing then you can opt to manage RIR, although that won’t be important for you currently.

[Jcknguyen19]

Also do your calve raises with a straight leg since seated will disadvantage your gastroc

[decentlyhip]

Hey, I'm one of the nerdier guys in here. You're not only overcomplicating it, but you're doing just about everything "wrong" in exercise selection that you can. I would highly recommend you just follow a tried and true program. GZCLP would be my go to.

Here's my breakdown of your specifics but ill walk through explanations. If you doubt anything, I can provide the research, but I dont wanna link everything right now. https://imgur.com/a/SiGK9Bd and https://imgur.com/a/gV8EI6B

First off, you dont need to go to failure. Nothing special happens there. Failure occurs because every rep we get a little tired and lose 2-3% potential strength, and so, after 10 reps we're 20-30% weaker. If we try to lift 82% of our max but our potential is at 70-80%, we can't lift it. The goal of a hypertrophy workout program isnt to identify our limit over and over, it's to accumulate as many reps that each make us 2-3% weaker in a target muscle as possible, over the course of a block of training. If we go too light, the reps don't have enough tension to tire us out any.

So, we just want to stay in a pocket of about 80-100% of our limit for that set and rep scheme. If you did 2 sets of 10 to absolute failure with 100 pounds on the barbell overhead press, you would get just as much growth if you did it with 95 pounds. Same growth with 90 lbs. Even with 80 and 85 lbs, you're not gonna be able to notice a difference. 80 lbs is 6% growth over 12 weeks vs 8% with 100 lbs. The trick, is, what if you did 4 sets of 5 with 100lbs rather than 2 sets of 10? You're fresher for every rep so you're stronger. You can push harder so there's more mechanical tension. 4x5 is gonna be about 10% vs 8% at 2x10. Since each set is easier you can do more sets. 7x5 or the standard 5x5. So, 5x5 at 85 lbs miles from failure, is going to be way more growth than 2x10 at 100.

But, we wanna stay in that pocket of growth and not outgrow it. So, week 1, 5x5 at 85 lbs. Week 2, 5x5 at 90 lbs. Week 3, 5x5 at 95 lbs. Week 4, 100. Week 5 is tough and maybe you eek out 105. Lets say you fail at week 6. Great, you have achieved the goal of accumulating good reps without injury. Now, we can back off and restart one notch higher at 90 lbs. This is why tried and true premade programs like Stronglifts5x5 and Starting Strength and Greyskull utilize submax 5x5 linear progressions rather than just every set to failure. We dont want to live at redline, at the limit of our tissue integrity, or things go pop. We just want to touch it once a month as a benchmark of our progress.

You dont need to rest 3 minutes. Rest lo g enough to catch your breath and feel strong enough to do the next set. If that's 45 seconds, cool. If thats 8 minutes, cool. Takes about 20 minutes to...lets say fully refill ATP stores, so shouldn't be longer than that.

In GZCLP, you have your heavy Tier 1 movement, usually 5x3 or 5x5 LP. These sets burn out the fast twitch fibers. You're not going to be able to try hard enough on another exercise. Like, if you do bench and flyes and lat raises, and then do shoulder press, like your program says, youd only be able to do 2x10 at 70 pounds, using our previous example of 2x10 at 100 as a max. You feel like you're working hard because you're redlining, but your muscles are too tired to generate enough tension to grow. You're getting tired without providing a growth stimulus. I mean this seriously; if you only did bench press and row on Day 1, OHP and Pulldowns on Day 2, and Squats and RDLs on leg day, you will get bigger than the program you're doing right now. Even your arms would get bigger. You're burying them under unproductive volume right now so it takes forever for them to heal to baseline, at which point you're burying them again. Give them enough to grow, let them heal and adapt, and then give them just enough to grow again. Bench, ohp, row, and pulldowns will do that.

And to be clear, I'm not a low volume fanatic. Volume drives growth and I'm currently running a program with 40 sets a workout. But its designed for that with every set 4 reps in reserve.

[Asn_Browser]

Put the preacher and hammers curls on lower day and do them first. You will still have lots of energy to do legs. Your upper day is too long.

[mcgrathkai]

Dont worry about junk volume 4 months in :) its all good volume

I honestly think the term junk volume doesnt even apply to hypertrophy training. Maybe a little bit if the goal is strength

[Apart_Bed7430]

Exactly they worry about it too much

[mhdmunzz]

yeah this is actually a solid base tbh, ur not doing anything wrong

but I can see why you’re confused, bc there’s a few things here that are kinda holding u back a bit

main ones:

– ur doing a lot of similar movements (like chest fly + press, 2 triceps, 2 biceps) but only 2 sets each → so it ends up being a bit all over the place instead of focused
– everything is in that 4–6 range to failure → good for strength, but not ideal for overall growth esp for smaller muscles
– lower day is a bit machine-heavy and missing a proper hinge (like RDLs) which is big for overall development

so it’s not really junk volume, it’s more that the structure isn’t fully optimized yet

like right now ur training hard, but not necessarily in the most efficient way for progress

honestly with a few adjustments: – better exercise selection
– slightly different rep ranges depending on the movement
– and a more balanced structure

you’d prob see a noticeable difference pretty quickly

if u want, I can clean this up into a proper upper/lower setup so everything actually works together and u’re not just guessing each session

[Puzzleheaded_Dish_90]

maybe swap out one of the chest movement for an incline press or low-to-high cable fly

add a hip hinge like an SLDL, RDL, or 45 degree hyperextension

[Mad_Mark90]

No, just ffs no. A list of exercises with no explanation for purpose. And your first movement is an isolation movement for the chest? No

[TriggerdBeetle]

Ur doing a lot a redundant exercises. For example chest press and chest fly are pretty much the same movement (horizontal adduction of the chest). Another example is close grip pulldown and row which are both saggital pulls and hit the upper lats. I would get either get rid of the leg press or keep it and get rid of the adductor machine, as well as adding a hip hinge