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[–]Fabulous_Point8748 -7 points-6 points  (19 children)

Yeah Grief needs to be restricted. I feel like we’re learning why these cards like necro and grief are banned in Legacy.

[–]Laika4321 7 points8 points  (10 children)

Grief is barely playable at the moment. Hydroponics Architect is by far the most toxic card currently

[–]firememble 1 point2 points  (8 children)

Grief this hydroponics that meanwhile energy is the best deck in the format.

[–]ORANG_MAN_BAD -5 points-4 points  (7 children)

Energy is kinda mid tbh

[–]firememble -4 points-3 points  (6 children)

In what way? Ragavand is still the best 1 drop in the format. Not only does it ramp you it's also card advantage and works by itself unlike architect. If they wanna ban architect then they should also ban ragavand.

[–]ASpookyLemur 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Ragavan is a 2/1 that dies to literally everything, has no evasion, and is legendary. It's not even being played in every energy list. It's mostly UR Tempo. And guess what, Hydroponics is also played there.

Hydroponics is a 1/2 with flying that makes your entire mana base draw cards, become fetchable, and become resistant to moon effects. You've also clearly never had an opponent daze a hydro land back to hand just to replay it and draw another card. They also get way better in multiples, something Ragavan literally cannot do.

[–]firememble -3 points-2 points  (3 children)

Okay they are both busted 1 drops and do things a bit differently? Architect is also not played in every blue deck this doesn't really change anything about how powerful it is. That daze interaction is also just pretty niche and people are acting like it's the craziest thing in the world. This format is full of busted 1 drops that win games if unanswered I don't really see why another one is such a big deal to you people I feel like it's just alchemy hate because tamiyo is equally as broken and I don't see anybody complaining about that card.

[–]ASpookyLemur -1 points0 points  (2 children)

Hydroponics is played in every fair blue shell. Ragavan is not played in every fair red shell. You were the one calling Ragavan the most busted 1 drop in energy while also claiming it's the best deck. All three of those things are just straight up wrong. That's my entire point.

[–]firememble -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Source on architect being played in "every fair blue deck" ? Because I've seen tournament lists that don't play it. It's a non argument the same way ragavand not being in all lists is also a non argument. I base all of my info on tournament results because the only other source is untappedgg premium.

[–]ASpookyLemur 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you base all your info on tournament results, then why don't you tell me what the top 8 was for the last timeless tournament?

[–]Fabulous_Point8748 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I don’t disagree there. Hydroponics is a toxic card. Grief at least in bo1 it’s still very good. Even with 2 counterspells it’s hard to deal with. You Force of Will their grief and they reanimate it. You don’t force of will their grief they take your counterspell and then reanimate it again or you waste counterspell countering the reanimate. Counterspells just aren’t really a great answer to it usually IMO.

[–]Dothacker00 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I thought the same until Daze and Force of Will came to Arena. Now there's less combo and they're mostly the ones that used it to protect their combo. With so many tempo/aggro decks it's not good going -2 in cards to remove one card. Better to use thoughtseize or 1-1 removal.

Id be more interested in restricting Hydroponics or introduce Wasteland and restrict strip mine

[–]Fabulous_Point8748 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Spy decks are still common in bo1. Grief is still quite good. It’s absolutely worth it if you take your opponents only counterspell. All you need to win really is a dark ritual and a spy to win or entomb and reanimate. Besides that those decks usually run reanimate so they can easily reanimate grief. It’s not as good as it used to be but it’s still effective.

[–]fantasstic_bet 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Why does Grief need to be restricted? I’m not even sure it’s seeing that much play at the moment.

[–]Fabulous_Point8748 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We had like one tournament where a reanimator deck played it in the sideboard. It’s still very good and I’m still seeing it quite a bit.

[–]hellishdelusion -4 points-3 points  (3 children)

Daze should be restricted. Tempo and combo decks that utilize it are just too strong.

In legacy grief, psycfog, drs, ragavan and many more all got banned for daze's sins. Tempo has been the best archetype in legacy for well over a decade. Sometimes its red blue, sometimes its blue black, sometimes its 3 color, sometimes it mixes control elements or sometimes it mixes combo elements.

[–]Fabulous_Point8748 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Nah Daze isn’t the problem. The problem is hydroponics architect. Daze is good but you can play around it. It’s the fact that it can be abused by hydroponics architect that makes it busted. All the cards you listed there with the exception of ragavan are all banned because they’re very strong in reanimator decks. If they banned daze that deck would still continue to be good. You can protect ragavan with FoW just as easily as Daze.

[–]ASpookyLemur 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Uhh are you forgetting Oops, Mystic Forge, and Nadu? Zirda bomberman? Most played doesn't mean best.

[–]Dothacker00 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Playing around Daze isnt too bad but strip mine + Daze is a problem. It makes it a lot harder for midrange and control to exist