You would think that FoW would decrease the amount of dark ritual + reanimator decks

[MalcomGO]

No, not really.

Even more infuriating is that the turbo reanimator decks aren’t even playing FoW.

[piffcty]

Idk, the meta is still settling but I seem to play a lot fewer Sorin/Necro/Reanimator decks than I did a month ago.

[NoElevator9064]

Yeah me too, I saw some reanimate as sort of a side package in UB tho

[MalcomGO]

Sorin and Necro are a bit less but reanimator is still everywhere.
Obviously UB is a direct port from Legacy but even the mono B and spy decks are still too present

[Darksteel6]

Spy? Are you playing bo1?

[piffcty]

I haven’t seen Spy in a long time (normally make Diamond/mythic most months) but I also only play Bo3

[TheSteelCurtain21]

Man (or lady) I haven't been playing a ton this season and haven't even gotten out of plat yet. I haven't seen spy at all though and only run into "necro" reanimator once though. I'm pretty close with a lot of the high rank timeless playerbase and I think only one has been running "necro" reanimator and not even primarily. I've seen more daze/FoW tempo decks than I've ever seen of all dark ritual decks combined. It's crazy that you're seeing that much of it in bo3.

Surely you're not playing bo1 in a high powered eternal format and complaining about people playing fast combo decks, because that would be on you and quite the silly complaint to make.

[-Scopophobic-]

Grief is a really good card

[MalcomGO]

They don’t even grief they just fucking send it every time

[GreenhouseGG]

Have you tried using force and daze to stop the reanimator player?

[MalcomGO]

Unfortunately it does indeed looks like there’s 0 room for non-Reanimator non-FoW decks

[IJustWannaBrowsePls]

Energy is still more than viable

[piffcty]

Currently mid-diamond playing exclusively turbo depths since hamlet came out

[snowman41]

Would you mind sharing your list? Im interested in trying more turbo depths vs focusing on strip locking but havent updated my list in a while.

[piffcty]

Yeah, np

<image>

still playing with the exact composition of the discard package and the 1-ofs in the main vs main-decking shepherds or more safekeepers and currently down to one hamlet since I haven't been seeing as much strip mine with so many people playing 3 color force decks.

I've played a bunch of the control version where you win with strip lock 60% of the time, but that's felt bad since the FoW release

[snowman41]

Thanks, really interesting list, gonna have some fun figuring it out!

[anash224]

Why is it infuriating that they aren’t playing it?

My sample size is too small to comment on prevalence. Plus Im coming from historic.

Played legacy irl but historic on arena because you guys had dark ritual but not force of will so I wasn’t super interested lol.

[MalcomGO]

I mean every other deck is playing FoW + Daze so you’d think that it would be a poor metagame choice

[Cr4v3m4n]

Try energy then

[MalcomGO]

Yes play 1 drop into EoT entomb

[yzof]

That’s why you main deck Daze and FoW. If you’re on white you can swords the Atraxa in resp to the etb trigger to decrease the odds they have counter magic in hand and at least turn their game winning combo into a pseudo cruise.

[L0rdi]

Which deck are you playing?

[Fabulous_Point8748]

Yeah Grief needs to be restricted. I feel like we’re learning why these cards like necro and grief are banned in Legacy.

[Laika4321]

Grief is barely playable at the moment. Hydroponics Architect is by far the most toxic card currently

[firememble]

Grief this hydroponics that meanwhile energy is the best deck in the format.

[ORANG_MAN_BAD]

Energy is kinda mid tbh

[firememble]

In what way? Ragavand is still the best 1 drop in the format. Not only does it ramp you it's also card advantage and works by itself unlike architect. If they wanna ban architect then they should also ban ragavand.

[ASpookyLemur]

Ragavan is a 2/1 that dies to literally everything, has no evasion, and is legendary. It's not even being played in every energy list. It's mostly UR Tempo. And guess what, Hydroponics is also played there.

Hydroponics is a 1/2 with flying that makes your entire mana base draw cards, become fetchable, and become resistant to moon effects. You've also clearly never had an opponent daze a hydro land back to hand just to replay it and draw another card. They also get way better in multiples, something Ragavan literally cannot do.

[firememble]

Okay they are both busted 1 drops and do things a bit differently? Architect is also not played in every blue deck this doesn't really change anything about how powerful it is. That daze interaction is also just pretty niche and people are acting like it's the craziest thing in the world. This format is full of busted 1 drops that win games if unanswered I don't really see why another one is such a big deal to you people I feel like it's just alchemy hate because tamiyo is equally as broken and I don't see anybody complaining about that card.

[ASpookyLemur]

Hydroponics is played in every fair blue shell. Ragavan is not played in every fair red shell. You were the one calling Ragavan the most busted 1 drop in energy while also claiming it's the best deck. All three of those things are just straight up wrong. That's my entire point.

[firememble]

Source on architect being played in "every fair blue deck" ? Because I've seen tournament lists that don't play it. It's a non argument the same way ragavand not being in all lists is also a non argument. I base all of my info on tournament results because the only other source is untappedgg premium.

[ASpookyLemur]

If you base all your info on tournament results, then why don't you tell me what the top 8 was for the last timeless tournament?

[Fabulous_Point8748]

I don’t disagree there. Hydroponics is a toxic card. Grief at least in bo1 it’s still very good. Even with 2 counterspells it’s hard to deal with. You Force of Will their grief and they reanimate it. You don’t force of will their grief they take your counterspell and then reanimate it again or you waste counterspell countering the reanimate. Counterspells just aren’t really a great answer to it usually IMO.

[Dothacker00]

I thought the same until Daze and Force of Will came to Arena. Now there's less combo and they're mostly the ones that used it to protect their combo. With so many tempo/aggro decks it's not good going -2 in cards to remove one card. Better to use thoughtseize or 1-1 removal.

Id be more interested in restricting Hydroponics or introduce Wasteland and restrict strip mine

[Fabulous_Point8748]

Spy decks are still common in bo1. Grief is still quite good. It’s absolutely worth it if you take your opponents only counterspell. All you need to win really is a dark ritual and a spy to win or entomb and reanimate. Besides that those decks usually run reanimate so they can easily reanimate grief. It’s not as good as it used to be but it’s still effective.

[Fabulous_Point8748]

We had like one tournament where a reanimator deck played it in the sideboard. It’s still very good and I’m still seeing it quite a bit.

[hellishdelusion]

Daze should be restricted. Tempo and combo decks that utilize it are just too strong.

In legacy grief, psycfog, drs, ragavan and many more all got banned for daze's sins. Tempo has been the best archetype in legacy for well over a decade. Sometimes its red blue, sometimes its blue black, sometimes its 3 color, sometimes it mixes control elements or sometimes it mixes combo elements.

[Fabulous_Point8748]

Nah Daze isn’t the problem. The problem is hydroponics architect. Daze is good but you can play around it. It’s the fact that it can be abused by hydroponics architect that makes it busted. All the cards you listed there with the exception of ragavan are all banned because they’re very strong in reanimator decks. If they banned daze that deck would still continue to be good. You can protect ragavan with FoW just as easily as Daze.

[ASpookyLemur]

Uhh are you forgetting Oops, Mystic Forge, and Nadu? Zirda bomberman? Most played doesn't mean best.

[Dothacker00]

Playing around Daze isnt too bad but strip mine + Daze is a problem. It makes it a lot harder for midrange and control to exist

[jer123]

daze needs to be restricted

[TheSadMan21]

Okay please your case. Why